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Post by firstwd on Oct 3, 2012 15:43:46 GMT -5
My comparison had nothing to do with you offer to pay $7 for a child's hunting license. I'm happy you want to do that. What I would suggest is maybe signing up to help around camp for the H-I hunt next year. It might nor change your mind about anything, but it might also give you some insight as to why we are so passionate about this and other programs for the youth and our future.
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Post by jb1069 on Oct 3, 2012 16:01:01 GMT -5
Like I said earlier. If my offer isn't enough to satisfy you that is your issue. As far as calling me out on the $7 dollars I was thinking the $24 dollar tag. I will tell you what. I will pay for 10 kids. You are exactly right, I just looked it up. Youth consolidated license for 7 bucks. What a deal!!! My initial offer has already been accepted and will be going to a person I am sure will distribute the rest to help a kid in need.
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Post by Russ Koon on Oct 3, 2012 16:28:25 GMT -5
Just saw this thread, been busy out of town this morning.
jb1069, I'm completely in agreement with your position.
I recall the anticipation of my first deer season. I didn't have a family member with the "hunting tradition" and had to wait until I could go on my own. I feel certain looking back that the added couple years of anticipation heightened the thrill of that first deer hunt.
I had been hunting squirrels and rabbits for a couple years but deer were virtually non-existent near our small farm and I had to wait until I could drive to get to where the deer were.
That first deer hunt was also my first bowhunt for any species.
Been at it ever since and have managed to introduce several family members and friends of my son to hunting, and to deer hunting, both with gun and bow, during the respective regular seasons.
I was also a member for many years of the Indiana Bowhunter Association, and gladly joined other members of that organization in several projects to help youngsters get started in archery and in hunting.
I never met a bowhunter during the fifty years so far that I've been involved in the activity who wanted to selfishly exclude youth or anyone else from joining us in hunting with bows during the bow season, or with guns during the gun season.
Some of us have resisted the idea of inserting a special season for gun hunters to take their kids deer hunting with guns during the bow season. Apparently that attempt to preserve the bow season was sufficient to qualify us as "selfish", and as only interested in preventing a youth from getting a crack at "our buck", as you have now experienced.
I also agree completely with your answer to the request for participation in the youth season. I started with squirrel hunting, started my son and a few others with it and rabbit hunting, and consider them to be excellent training grounds and introductory opportunities.
There are many great people on here with excellent intentions regarding increasing youth participation. And a few who would even do so without shooting firearms all over the deer woods the weekend before archery season begins, sending the deer into hiding for the next several days 8^).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 16:39:22 GMT -5
"I find it ironic this guy's handle starts with "jb"....hmmm. Can you say bitter?" Just what do you find ironic? My name is Jim Behagg...Get it? I am not hiding behind some user name. Its just what I came up with when signing up for this forum. If there is something I am missing please clue me in. Your viewpoints are a lot like another JB that a lot of us are familiar with. He seems to be a very bitter person when it comes to hunting regulations of late. If I read too much into your comments, I apologize.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 16:47:58 GMT -5
Russ your last sentence shows your true roots and.bias to gun.deer hunting and to this.youth season. Its completely false too. TheIba belief that.Oct. belongs to the archery sports is completely false as well. There is.no decree.saying so.
As for these kids shooting up uour.woods and.scaring all the deer, there was far less shots fired than on most any squirrel hunt.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 3, 2012 17:13:29 GMT -5
Not sure why you all are debating, discussing or arguing a subject that was decided 4 years ago...
We all had ample opportunity to give input then and the interested folks did just that. I'll tell you one thing - the youth hunts are here to stay.
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Post by firstwd on Oct 3, 2012 18:06:26 GMT -5
I wish your youth well.
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Post by steiny on Oct 3, 2012 19:21:30 GMT -5
I've been sitting back reading all of this with interest and will say that I am in the same camp as jb1069 and Russ for some of the same reasons.
Like others, I'm all for getting kids into hunting, and have done a bunch of it for many years, I just disagree with this "special, early" season. Would rather we gave them the first Sat & Sun of our regular firearms season, if we truly think a "special" hunt is warranted.
Also think it should be "free" for the kids, just like those free fishing days many states offer.
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Post by water63 on Oct 3, 2012 19:56:51 GMT -5
My daughter hunted the youth season this year. She did not harvest a deer she could have but didn't. She did not hunt with a gun but bow hunted the neighbor down the road also hunted but with a bow. So not all these kids are out there with a gun. It appears that this is turning into a gun vs archery not all these youth use a firearm.
And I would give up the normal opening weekend of firearms to the kids. Let them have the peak of the rut.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 20:27:32 GMT -5
It appears that this is turning into a gun vs archery not all these youth use a firearm. . Of course it is. That is at the heart of just about every debate on legislation, whether some will admit it or not.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 3, 2012 20:39:40 GMT -5
My daughter hunted the youth season this year. She did not harvest a deer she could have but didn't. She did not hunt with a gun but bow hunted the neighbor down the road also hunted but with a bow. So not all these kids are out there with a gun. It appears that this is turning into a gun vs archery not all these youth use a firearm. And I would give up the normal opening weekend of firearms to the kids. Let them have the peak of the rut. Yep... A good friend of mine works for Bear Archery and he takes his kids bowhunting on the youth weekend. His boys are racking up their kills using crossbows and vertical bows. This last weekend he had his youngest (7) in his pop up blind with him and momma had the two oldest with her. The middle boy (10) took this fine nanny under the watchful eye of his mom. It was an entire family outing..
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Post by water63 on Oct 4, 2012 5:50:39 GMT -5
My daughter hunted the youth season this year. She did not harvest a deer she could have but didn't. She did not hunt with a gun but bow hunted the neighbor down the road also hunted but with a bow. So not all these kids are out there with a gun. It appears that this is turning into a gun vs archery not all these youth use a firearm. And I would give up the normal opening weekend of firearms to the kids. Let them have the peak of the rut. Yep... A good friend of mine works for Bear Archery and he takes his kids bowhunting on the youth weekend. His boys are racking up their kills using crossbows and vertical bows. This last weekend he had his youngest (7) in his pop up blind with him and momma had the two oldest with her. The middle boy (10) took this fine nanny under the watchful eye of his mom. It was an entire family outing.. This is what it is all about! We can voice our opinions all we want but the law is in place. Some like it and some don't. I see the points on both sides. In the hunter ed class we teach there are 5 stages to a sport hunter Shooter stage - good hunting = lots of shooting or targets, Limit out stage - well self explanatory, Trophy stage again pretty self explanatory, Technique stage - were how you do it is more important and Mellowing out stage after many years of hunting these guys enjoy the total hunt more than taking the game itself. I am in that last stage now when I was in one of the other stages I probably would have a different view on this.
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Post by Russ Koon on Oct 4, 2012 9:27:14 GMT -5
timex, congratulations on your shrewd detective reasoning regarding my bias. Of course, the fact that I have stated as much several times in the past and have never made any attempt to hide it probably helped a little 8^).
Yes, my name is Russ and I'm a bowhunting addict.
I also enjoy hunting with various firearms, but my first love is bowhunting and all my western hunting trips have been to bowhunt, never once even including a firearm "backup plan", except for personal protection while traveling.
As to my "false" statement....so you would have us believe that the deer are NOT disrupted from their normal patterns and sent into heavy cover by the first gunfire of the season coming from orange-clad people wandering through their territory?
Have you ever been to a park reduction firearms hunt? Or seen any of the annual reports on them, during any year of their existence? Or checked out the info on the percentage of kills statewide on the opening weekend of firearms season? I'm speaking now of public land hunting or that land open to all or many, not a private deer enclosure.
First day is best by far, barring extreme weather variations, every time. By a mile, not an inch.
Second day is still not too bad, and is still usually better than the first day of the second weekend, even in the parks where they've been undisturbed by further hunting and gunfire during the week. Doesn't take a lot of shooting into them and over them to tip them off that they would be better off somewhere in thick cover and coming out only after full dark. And they may not be geniuses but they remember pretty well for about a week, if they're scared half to death.
This has become so evident to many applicants that if they are not drawn for the opening weekend they quite often don't bother to show up.
I'm kinda surprised that someone with your knack for deductive reasoning hadn't noticed that, too.
There are small pockets where the deer are so used to gunfire that the effect is diminished greatly. My favorite place for years was a small plot that had neighbors on three sides that were gun enthusiasts who shot big-bore handguns, mostly but also other very loud long guns, in their backyard ranges nearly every evening after work. I have watched deer feeding there and not even flinching when a .44 mag was fired just over the next ridge a couple hundred yards away. But even there and on military base hunts where the sounds of much gunfire is a constant, the orange army shooting those guns in their presence has a definite effect that lasts for days.
And, when I'm not being a mean and selfish old -------, I have also supported the idea of a youth hunt, or rather a group of them, just not on a statewide basis. I though thebetter idea would have been to stay with the original age range, and to hold the hunts on areas designated for them. That could have included various public lands, such as the park reductions, military bases, etc., as well as any private lands where that option was the choice of the landowner. I still think the smaller number of youth would have been well served with a hunt available somewhere near them, but without subjecting the rest of the entire state's bowhunters to the "gun opener syndrome" on each and every property they had been scouting. But apparently that compromise solution was also unacceptable to the majority.
Majorities can be like that, sometimes. Probably why the founding fathers bothered to restrict them with a constitution and a Bill of Rights.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 4, 2012 9:35:58 GMT -5
Personally I don't think gunfire scares deer. They are not reasoning animals. They do not have a clue that the loud noise can kill them. What upsets their routines is the number of humans now in their domain. The number of youth hunters is minuscule to the numbers on opening day of the firearms or any park or refuge hunt.
Big difference..
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Post by water63 on Oct 4, 2012 9:52:59 GMT -5
Personally I don't think gunfire scares deer. They are not reasoning animals. They do not have a clue that the loud noise can kill them. What upsets their routines is the number of humans now in their domain. The number of youth hunters is minuscule to the numbers on opening day of the firearms or any park or refuge hunt. Big difference.. This is my observation as well we have deer that wander onto our gun range at home we have to wait on them to walk clear sometimes. However the deer in our area are accustomed to gun fire and ATV traffic. In some areas that may not be the case and just a increase of people and noise in the area can cause the deer to go underground so to speak.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 4, 2012 10:01:04 GMT -5
Personally I don't think gunfire scares deer. They are not reasoning animals. They do not have a clue that the loud noise can kill them. What upsets their routines is the number of humans now in their domain. The number of youth hunters is minuscule to the numbers on opening day of the firearms or any park or refuge hunt. Big difference.. This is my observation as well we have deer that wander onto our gun range at home we have to wait on them to walk clear sometimes. However the deer in our area are accustomed to gun fire and ATV traffic. In some areas that may not be the case and just a increase of people and noise in the area can cause the deer to go underground so to speak. Case in point- a bunch of years ago I went to hunt Mogan Ridge. I was set up on the side of one of their monster ridges. I had a doe and two fawns eating acorns just 20 yards from me. A hunter cut lose with a 5 shot volley on top if the ridge. I just about jumped out of the stand. The doe and fawns? They never lifted their heads and kept on feeding in acorns. That has happened numerous times since then. As I pointed out there are a LOT less kids out there than any gun opener or park hunts AND some are using archery equipment too..
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Post by cleetus on Oct 4, 2012 10:12:48 GMT -5
All I know is that picture of the happy boy and his mother says it all for me. Who cares if it was Sept 29th or Jan 6th? It was a legal hunt, a legal kill which resulted in BIG smiles from the son and his momma.
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Post by water63 on Oct 4, 2012 10:15:32 GMT -5
Oh by the way I am a big bowhunter as well I prefer the quiet season myself. Yes I gun hunt too but I like the bow season better and have for years.
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Post by water63 on Oct 4, 2012 10:20:33 GMT -5
This is my observation as well we have deer that wander onto our gun range at home we have to wait on them to walk clear sometimes. However the deer in our area are accustomed to gun fire and ATV traffic. In some areas that may not be the case and just a increase of people and noise in the area can cause the deer to go underground so to speak. Case in point- a bunch of years ago I went to hunt Mogan Ridge. I was set up on the side of one of their monster ridges. I had a doe and two fawns eating acorns just 20 yards from me. A hunter cut lose with a 5 shot volley on top if the ridge. I just about jumped out of the stand. The doe and fawns? They never lifted their heads and kept on feeding in acorns. That has happened numerous times since then. As I pointed out there are a LOT less kids out there than any gun opener or park hunts AND some are using archery equipment too.. My observation as well Woody.
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Post by jb1069 on Oct 4, 2012 10:49:44 GMT -5
"Not sure why you all are debating, discussing or arguing a subject that was decided 4 years ago..."
We debate and discuss things because we are not in 100% agreement on things. I dont think a single person that agrees with me, including myself, is out petitioning to get this changed or revoked. We are just stating opinions and two opinions are always better than one....
Surely you can understand that just because something was decided on 4 years ago or 40 years ago that not everyone will agree...in example...i believe it was a long time in the works getting the crossbow laws changed. Shouldnt we have left that alone too since it was passed a long time ago???
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