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Post by boman on Aug 8, 2022 20:40:34 GMT -5
If you've found Jesus you should let the archaelogists know, they're still looking for him after 2000yrs. Blasphemy you say-----since I'm gonna burn in hell I certainly hope there's room, probably already pretty crowded with all the Christians, Muslims,Hindus,Buddhists,Shintos,Sikhs,Jews etc.etc. etc. who haven't found Jesus. By the way Jesus was a Jew. And FWIW I never lost Him, the nuns taught me all about Jesus for 8 years. Steve It wasn't really personal. Read your Bible and figure it out for yourself. Never took it personal, just trying to point out things arn't quite so black and white, lot of grey area out there. kinda like Roe vs. Wade Steve
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 8, 2022 21:47:10 GMT -5
It was directed at all.. Pretty tough for me to put aside my belief in and of God when discussing any of this or a multitude of other subjects.. He is my guiding light in just about everything I do. Do I slip? Absolutely, but I try not to. If I do, I will continually ask for His forgiveness. God said "Thou shall not murder". I'm pretty sure he meant that. I firmly believe that all life is precious and granted by Him. Even life in the womb. I've often questioned why God put my spirit in this body at this time and place. He could have just as easily put my spirit in a little black kid in the middle of Africa living in a mud hunt. Thankfully I am where I am. Pro life and pro choice have been miles apart on this. Hard line Pro life says no abortion and hard line pro choice says abortion at any time for any reason. That hard stance from the left is why the tide is beginning to turn to pro life. The one Democrat governor (that was defeated by a pro life Republican) said that he was for abortion even after delivery. If that is not murder I do not know what is. cnsnews.com/news/article/emily-ward/virginia-governor-describes-how-post-birth-abortion-would-proceedI do believe that some folks are pro abortion and not just pro choice or we wouldn't be seeing Pregnancy Centers being firebombed. I dont think these people want a mother to have a birthing choice. I think our Indiana politicians did the best they could with this subject. Neither side is completely happy. One pro life group said that the only thing that the politicians changed was moving abortion from one building to another.
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Post by greghopper on Aug 9, 2022 5:33:05 GMT -5
Folks, Lets be careful here. I’m a patient and reasonable man but I’ll only take so much.. I assume you are directing that at me. That an honest comment and a reasonable question I asked you, not a personal attack and here's why I asked. I was walking the dogs in Crown Hill last Sunday and met a lady,never met her before, who was also walking her dog. We ended up walking and talking together and the subject of Roe vs. Wade came up along with other political subjects. When I asked her about how she felt on the subject of Roe vs. Wade She said, and I quote "I would never have an abortion but I certainly wouldn't condemn any woman who does". I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure if one polls a lot of women you'll find a similar view with a vast majority, Pretty sure that's where the huge turnout and vote to keep freedom of choice came from in Kansas. I pretty much feel the same way as these women, but as I said somewhere earlier, religion should not be part of the equation and wish it could be left out of the conversation, unfortunately some who have different beliefs than mine keep bringing it up. Steve That’s right….. your last two paragraphs speaks volumes.
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Post by span870 on Aug 9, 2022 6:27:26 GMT -5
Tip toeing around the abortion debate but question for those that are staunch pro life. Does that also carry over to the death penalty or does pro life end at birth. Shall not kill for an unborn but eye for an eye for death penalty? Eye for an eye isn't a commandment but shall not kill certainly is.
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Post by genesis273 on Aug 9, 2022 6:47:55 GMT -5
Tip toeing around the abortion debate but question for those that are staunch pro life. Does that also carry over to the death penalty or does pro life end at birth. Shall not kill for an unborn but eye for an eye for death penalty? Eye for an eye isn't a commandment but shall not kill certainly is. Although I think I understand what you're getting at, the two are not the same. Let's take out all the variables and look at the majority of abortions. Woman just not wanting to give birth to a child. Now, let's look at the majority of your death row inmates. Men (the rare female) that have committed heinous and brutal crimes such as murder, multiple violent rapes... On one hand, you have an innocent life that has done no wrong to no person. On the other hand, you have a violent individual that has proven that they can not be trusted in society and that society is not safe with them roaming about. In my opinion, it's apples and oranges.
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Post by blackmouthcur on Aug 9, 2022 7:26:19 GMT -5
Tip toeing around the abortion debate but question for those that are staunch pro life. Does that also carry over to the death penalty or does pro life end at birth. Shall not kill for an unborn but eye for an eye for death penalty? Eye for an eye isn't a commandment but shall not kill certainly is. Although I think I understand what you're getting at, the two are not the same. Let's take out all the variables and look at the majority of abortions. Woman just not wanting to give birth to a child. Now, let's look at the majority of your death row inmates. Men (the rare female) that have committed heinous and brutal crimes such as murder, multiple violent rapes... On one hand, you have an innocent life that has done no wrong to no person. On the other hand, you have a violent individual that has proven that they can not be trusted in society and that society is not safe with them roaming about. In my opinion, it's apples and oranges. I disagree, I’m in no way religious but I believe God reserves judgement to himself and himself alone. Ya can’t cherry pick out the parts ya like and ignore the parts ya don’t. My wife is a prime example of that and I believe most people are the same. Once again, just my opinion.
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Post by greghopper on Aug 9, 2022 8:03:17 GMT -5
Although I think I understand what you're getting at, the two are not the same. Let's take out all the variables and look at the majority of abortions. Woman just not wanting to give birth to a child. Now, let's look at the majority of your death row inmates. Men (the rare female) that have committed heinous and brutal crimes such as murder, multiple violent rapes... On one hand, you have an innocent life that has done no wrong to no person. On the other hand, you have a violent individual that has proven that they can not be trusted in society and that society is not safe with them roaming about. In my opinion, it's apples and oranges. I disagree, I’m in no way religious but I believe God reserves judgement to himself and himself alone. Ya can’t cherry pick out the parts ya like and ignore the parts ya don’t. My wife is a prime example of that and I believe most people are the same. Once again, just my opinion. Yeah…. “Murder” as stated prior is murder no matter how you twist it, only differences is one is BORN the other isn’t!
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 9, 2022 8:25:51 GMT -5
The Ten Commandments says
Thou shalt not murder
Is the government murdering the prisoner? Personally I don’t know and that’s the reason I’ve changed my position over the years on capital punishment. Before I was pro death sentence for people that committe heinous crimes. Now, I don’t know…I do know I could not conduct the execution on behalf of the government.
With that said I would not hesitate by any means necessary to stop someone from killing others in an active shooter situation I would run towards the shooting with handgun at ready to shoot to kill. Is that murder? I don’t think so.
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Post by Mack Apiary Bees on Aug 9, 2022 8:42:54 GMT -5
Between my born sister and I my mom had a miscarriage. So that makes me a rainbow child. When I was in-at Heaven, I meet my older sister for the 1st time. It was a beautiful experience. Someday in the future I will be able to see my sister again I pray. That's all I have to say on this subject. I pray for all the murdered children in the womb.
The small mustard seed is like the small Spirit in the womb of the mother. When taken care of this Spirit will grow to be a great Spirit.
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Post by blackmouthcur on Aug 9, 2022 9:33:05 GMT -5
The Ten Commandments says Thou shalt not murder Is the government murdering the prisoner? Personally I don’t know and that’s the reason I’ve changed my position over the years on capital punishment. Before I was pro death sentence for people that committe heinous crimes. Now, I don’t know…I do know I could not conduct the execution on behalf of the government. With that said I would not hesitate by any means necessary to stop someone from killing others in an active shooter situation I would run towards the shooting with handgun at ready to shoot to kill. Is that murder? I don’t think so. Just a scenario here but what if all the 911 hijacker’s were at a cafe having coffee finalizing their plans and God sent a active shooter in to take care of them but you intervened and saved them all? You guys always say he works in mysterious ways. That’s why it’s better IMO to mind my own business, if you’re for abortion great, if you’re not that’s great too. When I die and if I’m wrong and there is a Almighty God I’ll stand by my convictions and take whatever comes my way.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 9, 2022 10:01:31 GMT -5
Sorry, I’m not dealing in “what ifs”.
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Post by blackmouthcur on Aug 9, 2022 17:49:44 GMT -5
That’s kinda what everyday life is, a bunch of what if’s, isn’t it?
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Post by greghopper on Aug 9, 2022 18:09:23 GMT -5
The Ten Commandments says Thou shalt not murder Is the government murdering the prisoner? Personally I don’t know and that’s the reason I’ve changed my position over the years on capital punishment. Before I was pro death sentence for people that committe heinous crimes. Now, I don’t know…I do know I could not conduct the execution on behalf of the government. With that said I would not hesitate by any means necessary to stop someone from killing others in an active shooter situation I would run towards the shooting with handgun at ready to shoot to kill. Is that murder? I don’t think so. A.Murder: Murder is defined as a person who knowingly or intentionally kills another human being; B. Voluntar.v Manslauehter: Voluntary Manslaughter is defined as a person who knowingly or intentionally kills a human being while acting under sudden heat; C. Involuntary Manslaughter: Involuntary Manslaughter is defined as a person who kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit: (l) a level 5 or Level 6 felony that inherently poses a risk of serious bodily injury; (2) a Class A misdemeanor that inherently poses a risk of serious bodily irjury; or (3) a battery. D. Reckless Homicide:-Reckless Homicide is defined as a person who recklessly kills another human being
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 9, 2022 18:42:09 GMT -5
That’s kinda what everyday life is, a bunch of what if’s, isn’t it? Let me put it this way.. if God wanted a mass shooter to kill a bunch of terrorists they would die, no matter what I or anyone else could do to stop it. God would not be stopped, nor will he be mocked with “what ifs”.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 9, 2022 18:43:50 GMT -5
You missed justifiable homicide.
Greg …
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Post by greghopper on Aug 9, 2022 19:11:34 GMT -5
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Post by Ahawkeye on Aug 9, 2022 22:59:54 GMT -5
The Ten Commandments says Thou shalt not murder Is the government murdering the prisoner? Personally I don’t know and that’s the reason I’ve changed my position over the years on capital punishment. Before I was pro death sentence for people that committe heinous crimes. Now, I don’t know…I do know I could not conduct the execution on behalf of the government. With that said I would not hesitate by any means necessary to stop someone from killing others in an active shooter situation I would run towards the shooting with handgun at ready to shoot to kill. Is that murder? I don’t think so. Just a scenario here but what if all the 911 hijacker’s were at a cafe having coffee finalizing their plans and God sent a active shooter in to take care of them but you intervened and saved them all? You guys always say he works in mysterious ways. That’s why it’s better IMO to mind my own business, if you’re for abortion great, if you’re not that’s great too. When I die and if I’m wrong and there is a Almighty God I’ll stand by my convictions and take whatever comes my way. I have stayed out of this conversation for quite some time now, I see it coming to an end very soon. I will make 2 points and stay quiet on the subject. Blackmouth, I'm no saint by any means, you do not want to stand before God with those convictions it will be a very poorly chosen side to take. Your decision will not be a swift "death" it will be an eternity of agony. For your sake and the sake of whatever soul you may have I emplore you to reconsider your stance. That part is up to you and no one else. For all those in favor of "pro choice"... There is absolutely ZERO argument that abortion kills a baby, a human being, a person capable of joy, sadness, pain, loneliness, love and the deaire to be loved. You can try to justify the reason for an abortion all you want but the bottom line is if anyone chooses to abort a baby they are choosing to kill a human being That matter is cut and dry. I will continue to pray for the unborn children who were killed in this act. One final note, for those that say if you are pro life you have to choose no death penalty, it's a hard choice to make but you are right, I am not here to judge any of you, you are not here to judge me and neither of us can fairly judge the worth of a person's life. That is not our job, if God sees them fit to die he will make it so. We can however judge whether or not someone can spend the rest of their lives in jail.
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Post by genesis273 on Aug 10, 2022 6:38:44 GMT -5
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Post by greghopper on Aug 10, 2022 7:06:13 GMT -5
I think our Indiana politicians did the best they could with this subject. Neither side is completely happy. One pro life group said that the only thing that the politicians changed was moving abortion from one building to another. True...all abortions must be performed in a hospital. All abortion clinics will close or at least cease to provide abortion procedures. The pro-life "zealots" I assume will still not be happy....
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Post by boman on Aug 10, 2022 13:25:13 GMT -5
Tip toeing around the abortion debate but question for those that are staunch pro life. Does that also carry over to the death penalty or does pro life end at birth. Shall not kill for an unborn but eye for an eye for death penalty? Eye for an eye isn't a commandment but shall not kill certainly is. I don't think anyone in their right mind wants to kill anyone else, including me and most pro-choicers. That doesn't mean I'll quit carrying a handgun and I certainly won't be led to slaughter in any coliseum. I believe in capital punishment too. I might change my mind if the criminal justice system in this country would quit letting criminals back out so they can commit more crimes. we just had a guy arrested for a second time up here on murder charges who was out on parole. Seems He was arrested back in 2016 for murder and pleaded it down so he got a lesser sentence. poof he's back on the street. The perp who killed Noah Shanavaz was also a habitual offender. Steve
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