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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 18, 2011 23:03:31 GMT -5
And a smaller clear cut after planting with a stand over it . Try again Lugg I do know what I am doing and saying here . Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2011 9:08:16 GMT -5
I'm with Lug, Im not shooting a button no matter how hungry I get. I'll eat beans and biscuits instead. Hundred acres is big enough to manage, and buttons are not meat deer. Seems that your problem us self inflicted. I can't imagine what kind of management scheme encourage anyone to shoot a button buck?
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 19, 2011 16:34:30 GMT -5
I'm with Lug, Im not shooting a button no matter how hungry I get. I'll eat beans and biscuits instead. Hundred acres is big enough to manage, and buttons are not meat deer. Seems that your problem us self inflicted. I can't imagine what kind of management scheme encourage anyone to shoot a button buck? That's funny because every state that allows antler less deer harvest see buttons as nothing more than meat deer and since they leave its not my deer in a few months from I just killed now is it ?? Let me answer that no its likely not. seriously what the hell has shooting a single button buck have to do with low deer numbers and people shooting too many Doe and there being to liberal a antler less limit ?? I fail to see the connection here ? If trying to grow a herd you do not shoot a single doe .Deer Biology 101. Do you guys worship antlers that much that shooting a button is a sin?? I mean we see more bucks per hunt now days here than does for real and have been for a while but we don't shoot immature antlered bucks if that makes you feel any better . LOL
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Post by deweydutchmen on Dec 19, 2011 16:43:10 GMT -5
No it's not a sin. Just not sound management.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2011 17:24:32 GMT -5
Even the links you posted show that not all BB's leave, and they make very little meat. If you have BB's, you also have female fawns and does that would make meat. If your trying to groa a herd, the better deer would be the female fawn or a dry doe for meat. Basic management 101.
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 19, 2011 17:39:25 GMT -5
Even the links you posted show that not all BB's leave, and they make very little meat. If you have BB's, you also have female fawns and does that would make meat. If your trying to grow a herd, the better deer would be the female fawn or a dry doe for meat. Basic management 101. Sure its sound management for my land that I am trying to grow the herd on not reduce the breeding stock. I just took someone elses buck deer is all I did for next year or the year after . Sound as a bug in a rug in fact.Just not sound for the other guy is all. I have not seen a single dry doe ever here when you see a mature doe she has at least one fawn and once again killing a doe of any age don't grow the herd ever! Most of you worry about bucks too much and pay little attention to the real herd builders the Does .The loss of a button buck is the loss of a single deer in the future .The loss of a doe is the loss of many deer includeing many more Bucks in the future.
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Post by lugnutz on Dec 19, 2011 19:50:34 GMT -5
You need to disk up that food plot, its pointless to have when there a 1000's acres of food in that area. What your area lacks is cover, try 10-25 acres of crp. That alone will pay more dividends toward a herd than any food plot that you have.
Dont spout that ur a know it all, when your herd management schemes obviously arent working for you.
Another thing, dont throw a fit when the city boys come in and shoot dinks all day when ur shootin a button. 84# fd, minus the bones and hide, you got lucky to get enough meat for two meals for a family of three.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 19, 2011 19:58:40 GMT -5
You need to disk up that food plot, its pointless to have when there a 1000's acres of food in that area. What your area lacks is cover, try 10-25 acres of crp. That alone will pay more dividends toward a herd than any food plot that you have. Dont spout that ur a know it all, when your herd management schemes obviously arent working for you. Another thing, dont throw a fit when the city boys come in and shoot dinks all day when ur shootin a button. 84# fd, minus the bones and hide, you got lucky to get enough meat for two meals for a family of three. Well said.... and straight to the point
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 19, 2011 21:20:32 GMT -5
You need to disk up that food plot, its pointless to have when there a 1000's acres of food in that area. What your area lacks is cover, try 10-25 acres of crp. That alone will pay more dividends toward a herd than any food plot that you have. Dont spout that ur a know it all, when your herd management schemes obviously arent working for you. Another thing, don't throw a fit when the city boys come in and shoot dinks all day when ur shootin a button. 84# fd, minus the bones and hide, you got lucky to get enough meat for two meals for a family of three. netted 38 # of meat thank you . My management has netted me wall full of biggens but the herd is down .I'm not the one setting on my fence decking every doe that crosses the property line they are .Let me put this in prospective 100 ac. 2 hunters in side it --12 hunters setting right on the line just across the creek to the east and also north on a 20 yard wide tree line an the west fence line .Then just a few hundred yards past that to the north and also west 7 more ,south about 300 yds across the corn field sets 3 more hunters in a 10 acre woods. not made up or a lie . Thats just on my block i wont even go into the blocks around us. Its sad I do agree that more cover will help but they still move back and forth off the property and most of the hunters will not listen they just want to kill kill kill so thy can go brag look at all the deer i killed this season .I have 3 that we talk but they to are land owners but they have the same issue with their 40 acre place deer leave and get blasted they are as conflicted bothered as I am about the issues here . I never said I know it all but I know my land and the area here ,the deer herd dynamics as well as hunter type and its not a good combination or managable .At one time it was but not now.
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Post by freedomhunter on Dec 20, 2011 8:33:44 GMT -5
You need to disk up that food plot, its pointless to have when there a 1000's acres of food in that area. What your area lacks is cover, try 10-25 acres of crp. That alone will pay more dividends toward a herd than any food plot that you have. Dont spout that ur a know it all, when your herd management schemes obviously arent working for you. Another thing, dont throw a fit when the city boys come in and shoot dinks all day when ur shootin a button. 84# fd, minus the bones and hide, you got lucky to get enough meat for two meals for a family of three. ^this, all the food plots in the world can't beat cover for a deer especially if ag crops and browse is there already, let an area grow up into set-aside (for free) and watch them come, put it in a food plot and who knows might help late season
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Post by schall53 on Dec 20, 2011 8:49:17 GMT -5
All you guys that are busting billybobs teeth need to hunt the type of area he is hunting. It sounds like the same type of cover I have. 20 to 30 ares of cover in a 640 acre section is alot, many sections don't have anything but a couple of fence rows. In this type of cover you can wipe out the breeding stock very easy, I have seen it happen. I agree with everything he has been saying except the button buck thing. The same thing in regards to the does has happened in our section. This time of year we usually put on a drive the last day of blackpowder. When the population was what I considerd good we would push out 6 to 8 deer. This year we pushed out one button buck. It doesn't matter what you do to manage your deer ground if everybody around you keeps killing the does and you have no breeding stock to work with. It takes does to make bucks. So as I stated earilier until you hunt this type of ground don't try to tell someone that has, that he is doing it wrong. You guys are comparing apples to oranges when you have never seen the orange.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2011 8:56:40 GMT -5
Guess I'm hardheaded, but I'll never believe you can have button bucks available and NO does. As far as not shooting the breeding stock, true. Don't shoot anything would be a better option. If you have to have 38 lbs. of meat, buy a hog or goat or do as Lug suggests, travel to the reduction hunts.
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Post by schall53 on Dec 20, 2011 9:31:00 GMT -5
I didn't say that there were no does, I am talking about having a good stable deer population. Let me put this to you Timex. I know you have several leases and you have set limits on the properties. Just imagine adding four times more hunters on the properties and each one of them killed every deer that walked past them. It is perfectly legal and you could not get them to ease off. How long do you think your quality of hunting on your leases would stay up. This is what we are dealing with up here. It gets really frustrating trying to deal with.
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 20, 2011 18:58:59 GMT -5
All you guys that are busting billybobs teeth need to hunt the type of area he is hunting. It sounds like the same type of cover I have. 20 to 30 ares of cover in a 640 acre section is alot, many sections don't have anything but a couple of fence rows. In this type of cover you can wipe out the breeding stock very easy, I have seen it happen. I agree with everything he has been saying except the button buck thing. The same thing in regards to the does has happened in our section. This time of year we usually put on a drive the last day of blackpowder. When the population was what I considerd good we would push out 6 to 8 deer. This year we pushed out one button buck. It doesn't matter what you do to manage your deer ground if everybody around you keeps killing the does and you have no breeding stock to work with. It takes does to make bucks. So as I stated earilier until you hunt this type of ground don't try to tell someone that has, that he is doing it wrong. You guys are comparing apples to oranges when you have never seen the orange. I appreciate the fact that you hunt the same type areas I do and understand my issue here . I guess I never wanted to admit this here as I really never thought I would have to defend the fact I shot a button Buck here . But here it is the real reason other than its legal and they have some meat on them. I talked with most of the hunters around me that were doing most of the Doe shooting the past 3 years .I tried to explain the hunter numbers and herd dynamic here .But they were having none of it and just kept saying stuff like QDM said shoot the does and the bucks will get bigger and come and we pass up all the small bucks and button bucks . Yha right they shoot 1.5 year old and 2.5 year old bucks every year they happen to kill a buck . They say we will just shoot what we want came finally from a couple of young guys that only show up 2 weeks a year to hunt and don't even scout the set on my fence line and blaze away . So I have finally had enough .I told them after a few words 3 years ago I and my boys would shoot every button buck we saw till they lay off the does or got on the same page as us . They loose enough button bucks over time they loose intrest and leave or get on board , it is a sound mental warfare on them even though yearling bucks move in every year they dont get it. . They told us sure you will .So 3 years and 6 button bucks later they don't talk to us at all .Granted I have now got 5 neighbor hunters on the same page around us.But the others just complain about us killing now get this future "THEIR BUCKS" . Is that a hoot while they each try to fill all 8 antler less tags two did last year BTW . So its all out war here! I don't want to shoot button bucks I would love to take a mature doe every year but no way not now.But its all I have to fight back with legally. I Have more than the lions share of cover and deer that stay in this section there at the farm till feeding time . I know how to implement all the QDM strategies and have over the years .I have the land and the resources and money to do it with .That's why the food plots and clear cutting so I can grow thicker cover in the woods and feed em here . Desperation is what I have .I know I need to pass up buttons I do ,but I told one at the fence this year we will not stop shooting button bucks till they either leave the area or decide to use some common sense and ease up on the doe herd so it will grow and we can have more button bucks and doe fawns born to replace the ones that have been taken. They just smart off and look at me with hallow eyes and anger . So there it the whole truth yep they are deer meat and legal And there is no other way to fight these fence ,creek line sitting vultures who have no idea what QDM is or how many deer we have here that just want to kill to kill . Now flame me but its all I have left this is the level of my resolve here and thnk god my boys and few neighbors are getting and why ! I tried leading by example ,talking it over even with hard numbers in hand over and over , angry words and now they have brought down the rain on thier own heads . I will get over it when they leave the area after getting sick of us killing button bucks and in a few years it will all be back to normal after I lay off em a few years .It is starting to work BTW 2 quit hunting to the west of me last year and have not been back they must be ruining someone elses area now .
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Post by gobblerstopper on Dec 20, 2011 19:55:50 GMT -5
Wow. Killing certain animals out of spite. Quite possibly the most ignorant reason for taking an animal I have ever heard. People wonder were the public get the idea that most hunters are just "dumb rednecks"
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Post by greghopper on Dec 20, 2011 20:01:57 GMT -5
Wow. Killing certain animals out of spite. Quite possibly the most ignorant reason for taking an animal I have ever heard. People wonder were the public get the idea that most hunters are just "dumb rednecks" ....roger that
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 20, 2011 21:44:31 GMT -5
Wow. Killing certain animals out of spite. Quite possibly the most ignorant reason for taking an animal I have ever heard. People wonder were the public get the idea that most hunters are just "dumb rednecks" Ignorant ?? really !!that's a laugh .They are not wasted we eat em and its working on them fence sitting vultures .?Second the public don't care or think about why or what deer we hunters kill em ,ever.. don't be deluded the only people who care what hunters kill are other hunters and the PETA types period hunters because they want to kill it or control everyone else in the woods an what they kill ,and animal rights groups because they don't like killing of animals by anyone.You over estimateing our exsitance or importance to the non hunting public they dont have time or inclination to care about any of us.
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 20, 2011 22:23:58 GMT -5
WOW---- Its been fun seeing the responses of some here that act insulted that hunter would take a deer legally for his own reasons .Very enlightening to say the least how we judge others here and in life while setting comfortably in our own worlds at home .We have no clue any of us what others do or why or the adversity they face in their hunting areas .Yet we pretend to be of higher mindset and moral fiber than the next hunter here and in the real world.
Some cry kill em all I see plenty of deer and QDM said shoot does to see more and bigger bucks. Some say stop killing does we are not seeing any deer and everyone thinks they have the deer management answers for land and herds` and hunters they have never met .
This was comical at best and sad in reality.I took a few liberties with those who simply argue for arguments sake and those who for whatever reason dont like me the truth is some where in the middle here we do have too many hunters here killing too many doe but you would not know that because you dont live or hunt here guys.
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Post by trapperdave on Dec 21, 2011 8:33:15 GMT -5
Guess I'm hardheaded, but I'll never believe you can have button bucks available and NO does. As far as not shooting the breeding stock, true. Don't shoot anything would be a better option. If you have to have 38 lbs. of meat, buy a hog or goat or do as Lug suggests, travel to the reduction hunts. I shot a BB this year. NO SHAME. My family wants DEER meat to eat, not greasy fatty pork or goat...and the bb was way cheaper anyway And like he says, it dont hurt the herd at all! shooting one doe costs the herd dozens of deer assuming twins on average over five years a little background on lil bucky: as of October 1, ONE doe has been seen on my property. She had twins, one male (lil bucky) one female. Neighbors took mama then daughter out of the equation by end of week two early archery. Ive seen two bucks in the woods this year during legal light...a total of one time each. thats it. I hunt prime private ground right smack in the middle of a four mile travel corridor.
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Post by hornharvester on Dec 21, 2011 9:07:43 GMT -5
Bottom line is shoot what you want if its legal and dont worry about what others say. Your land, your rules. h.h.
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