gc39
Full Member
Posts: 79
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Post by gc39 on Dec 3, 2011 16:07:41 GMT -5
I seen on another website, cant remember which, that showed a breakdown of bc bucks killed in indiana. It broke it down year to year since I believe the mid seventies. It then showed since the one buck rule was in effect. The numbers went up but not by a huge amount...off the top of my head it was 8 to 10 a year compared to past. Everyone on the message board was talking about how great the one buck rule was working. My arguement is this. I think if we had the internet around back in the earlier years we would have seen the same numbers, if not more. Now if anyone kills a decent buck they have it scored and put in the books. How many older deer do you think a year have never been scored because scoring wasnt nearly as BIG as it is now when everyone has to tell what there deer scored instead of just a description of what it was. I know there are 4 to 5 that would make the books in my family alone that were killed in the 80's to early 90. No one really worried about the score, you just told people you killed a big 10 pointer. Let the arguing begin. Do you really think that many more big bucks were killed now than later. I think the only difference is now every ten pointer or bigger pops up on the internet where before the net or cell phone pics you never had a clue what anyone else in the state killed.
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Post by deweydutchmen on Dec 3, 2011 16:38:59 GMT -5
They're are alot of book bucks not put in the books. Even today.
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Post by swilk on Dec 3, 2011 16:43:43 GMT -5
I see a lot of pictures of nice bucks each year...... don't see a whole lot of net 170+ bucks.
OBR is but a piece of the overall puzzle.....lots of reasons for things.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 3, 2011 17:27:47 GMT -5
Personally I believe that the "OBR came along at an opportune time." both the past and present Indiana deer biologists have stated that the herds age shift had already started prior to the 2002 start of the OBR trial.
Numerous other states have seen similar age shifts, even multi buck limit states.
No doubt more hunters are getting older and are thinking big bucks and holding out for them. The OBR " might" have accelerated the process. Number of bucks being entered in ANY book is not a good indicator of age shifts or the success or failure of the OBR. All that indicates is that more people want their buck entered. In the last discussion on extending the OBR the DNR did not use ANY book numbers as there are way too many variables.
With that said I believe we are stuck with he OBR whether we like it or not .
I find it somewhat funny when someone says that they are seeing more bucks than does and the herd is down. What can one expect when we can kill 450 does and only one buck in this state?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2011 19:04:33 GMT -5
A lot of these so called B & C bucks are ones that make Honorable mention and not the all time book. These deer score over 160 up t0 169 7/8" The don't make book till they score 170T or 185NT. and that number separates the men from the boys.
As for the OBR casuing it, as said it's part of it. But hunters are changing and are better educated and some are a lot more mature as deer hunters. But, you'd be hard pressed to come up with any data or opinion on how the OBR didn't contribute something to the mix?
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Post by Sasquatch on Dec 3, 2011 19:24:58 GMT -5
I still sell tags to the occasional older hunter that hasn't even heard of B&C. Kind of refreshing. There are probably a few undiscovered monsters here and there. I think the OBR's effectiveness is way overstated. I saw one idiot talking about how the number of trophy bucks jumped the first year it was in effect. I mentioned the fact that those deer would have to have been around and even trophy class the year before--- but of course I got no response. I think trophy mania and older, more selective hunters spare more deer than any silly rule. Most hunters never took two bucks anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2011 19:29:44 GMT -5
The effect you saw the first year, is why the one buck rule works as it does. It made (some) people think before they pop a cap. If you kill a buck in early archery, you get to go rabbit hunting, etc.
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Post by Sasquatch on Dec 3, 2011 19:57:46 GMT -5
The effect you saw the first year, is why the one buck rule works as it does. It made (some) people think before they pop a cap. If you kill a buck in early archery, you get to go rabbit hunting, etc. I see what you mean, but this guy's point was that the rule--implemented that same year--was the reason the deer---3, 4, 5, years old-- reached that size in the first place!
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Post by bowhunterjohn on Dec 3, 2011 20:24:49 GMT -5
I know several people, myself included , that have bucks that could make a record book but do not enter them.
I know one guy , older gentlemen, he has about 5 bucks that score above 160, one over 180, not a one is entered into a book of any kind. He says "dont' want everyone knowing what county they came from" LOL , smart guy !
How many people on an average took 2 bucks a year ? I read it awhile ago but can't imagine its much over 5K a year statewide, anyone know ? Woody ?
I guess the herd is down because we are kiling off the baby makers.
I have never hunted without the OBR, I started hunting in 2002 just firearm, then in 2003 all seasons. I know the first year I passed up 9 bucks before taking a buck, a 2.5 yr old 100" 9 pointer. But missed a bigger 10 in bow.
IN reality we should be letting any buck over 3.5 yrs of age that has 135" plus rack go, let him bred for another 2-3 years then get him on his way down.
Taking out 1.5 yr old bucks doesn't really do anything for buck management as you cannot realistically tell a bucks true antler capability until they are 3.5
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Post by swilk on Dec 3, 2011 20:30:14 GMT -5
Does a bucks genetics change with age or are the genetics the same whether that buck is 1.5 or 5.5??
Rhetorical question.....
In a controlled environment I think there is some merit to the breeding and genetics thing but in the wild I believe it is what it is.
For the most part genetics in a wild environment take a back seat to nutrition.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2011 20:41:56 GMT -5
It's just hard to control genetics in the wild, and the one buck rule basicly eliminates culling those you don't want to breed. We've been trying to remove some of the mature 8 points on our Illinois lease in the last few years and it might be paying off. This year, we are ahead on 10 points and have killed two more of the targeted mature 8 points. It's easier to do with two bucks being possible. Harder to do in Ind. to ask a fellow to take a cull buck as his only buck of the season.
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Post by swilk on Dec 3, 2011 20:49:36 GMT -5
I guess a large acreage long term lease would be as close to a fair chase controlled environment a guy could get.
On my little 150 acres it would be a moot point.
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Post by bowhunterjohn on Dec 3, 2011 20:53:48 GMT -5
It's just hard to control genetics in the wild, and the one buck rule basicly eliminates culling those you don't want to breed. We've been trying to remove some of the mature 8 points on our Illinois lease in the last few years and it might be paying off. This year, we are ahead on 10 points and have killed two more of the targeted mature 8 points. It's easier to do with two bucks being possible. Harder to do in Ind. to ask a fellow to take a cull buck as his only buck of the season. agree, in my one area/farm the guys across the street dont shoot 9 pointers because they dont' want a 9, but those genetics get passed on and on and on. There is a 9 pointer that is 3.5 and about 130", he is not wide, nor tall but mature, guys won't take him because nobody wants to sacrifice their buck tag. I'd say get back the 2 buck rule , lower the doe tags, maybe cut the number in half in the larger areas (4-8) and let the guys take another buck. Most bucks, even 1.5 yr old bucks have more meat then a mature doe.
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Post by lugnutz on Dec 3, 2011 21:29:26 GMT -5
I watched my 16yr old pass on an 8pt, probably 15-16 inch inside spread, because he didn't think he was big enough....At 16, i'd shot the first thing with horns, in fact i believe i did.....My point is, with all the TV bulcrap, magaizines, products at every hunting store in country pushing for large racked deer, even a novice hunter like my son, would just assume eat his buck tag, than to shoot a spike,forky or what not.
When i was a kid, everybody wanted to know how much they weighed, and possibly the age.
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Post by windingwinds on Dec 3, 2011 21:29:44 GMT -5
If and when we take bucks from our property, we are not interested in "record" books. (The 8pt that my bil took this year probably wouldn't have counted, but talk about a hawg. I am on the fence about OBR, but waiting to see what the NRC and DNR's input is on it. That and I am very interested in the harvest numbers for this season.
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Post by lugnutz on Dec 3, 2011 21:30:59 GMT -5
A lot of these so called B & C bucks are ones that make Honorable mention and not the all time book. These deer score over 160 up t0 169 7/8" The don't make book till they score 170T or 185NT. and that number separates the men from the boys. As for the OBR casuing it, as said it's part of it. But hunters are changing and are better educated and some are a lot more mature as deer hunters. But, you'd be hard pressed to come up with any data or opinion on how the OBR didn't contribute something to the mix? Sure you can, take the states that doesn't have OBR and see how they have done over the past 10 years.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 3, 2011 21:49:21 GMT -5
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Post by swilk on Dec 3, 2011 21:53:33 GMT -5
Entered. Not killed.
Might be close to one in the same but I doubt it.
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Post by gobblerstopper on Dec 3, 2011 22:14:25 GMT -5
Sure you can, take the states that doesn't have OBR and see how they have done over the past 10 years. Done compared to what? What they have done in the last 10 will tell you nothing.
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Post by boman on Dec 3, 2011 22:15:20 GMT -5
why the one buck rule works as it does. It made (some) people think before they pop a cap. nailed it! The farm I hunt in Tippecanoe co. is an urban deer zone(two bucks) and it "lost" 3 2 1/2 yr old bucks to urban deer tags this year simply because the guys could still shoot a wall hanger---which one did---a 145/150 class 10pt. Guess what---the landowner is limiting everyone to one buck next year to make "everyone" think. Steve
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