Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 19:16:33 GMT -5
Nope, Kentucky compares very well with Indiana, number of hunters is stable in both, slightly less than 10 years ago, not increasing at all. Kill is about the same as Indiana with the same basic number of hunters. Land mass is about the same. Deer population is probably about the same, Ky. says they have less than a million, no reason to believe Indiana isn't between 750,000 and a million as well, else they wouldn't be wanting a deer reduction.
Both states have liberal antlerless limits, yet the kill is stable at far less than the legal limit allowed. In KY, you could kill a couple of thousand, yet the average per hunter is less than 2 each. One buck in each state. Both are very good in trophy deer production.
Point is, in KY, they have a rut gun hunt with high power rifles, that lasts 3 weeks in most counties, followed by a 11 day ML season, a youth rifle season, and archery from Sept. to the end of Jan., with unlimited Antlerless tags available, yet they don't kill them all. Because it's not possible???
|
|
|
Post by schall53 on Dec 14, 2011 20:24:06 GMT -5
Timex, I usually agree with most of your posts but I must disagree with the million deer herd. I think you fall under the same problem that most people do in assuming the population in your area is statewide. Try hunting in alot of the other parts of the state and you will retract that statement. Our deer herd has been reduced drastically over the last few years.
|
|
|
Post by billybobteeth on Dec 14, 2011 20:36:39 GMT -5
Nope, Kentucky compares very well with Indiana, number of hunters is stable in both, slightly less than 10 years ago, not increasing at all. Kill is about the same as Indiana with the same basic number of hunters. Land mass is about the same. Deer population is probably about the same, Ky. says they have less than a million, no reason to believe Indiana isn't between 750,000 and a million as well, else they wouldn't be wanting a deer reduction. Both states have liberal antlerless limits, yet the kill is stable at far less than the legal limit allowed. In KY, you could kill a couple of thousand, yet the average per hunter is less than 2 each. One buck in each state. Both are very good in trophy deer production. Point is, in KY, they have a rut gun hunt with high power rifles, that lasts 3 weeks in most counties, followed by a 11 day ML season, a youth rifle season, and archery from Sept. to the end of Jan., with unlimited Antlerless tags available, yet they don't kill them all. Because it's not possible??? No actually Iowa and Indiana numbers wise are better suited as a comparison .You can minimize the differences all you like but here it is .KY has over 100k more hunters than IN. Ky has 250 -300 k more deer than IN does easily .This is a very close guesstimate by a DNR IN biologist his words not mine between 600 -750 k deer here in IN.Ky close to 1 mil.These are published numbers and given by both Gov DNR agencies. KY seasons are completely different from the Sept start for archery statewide to the early ML: season to the rifle season of 3 weeks to the late seasons structure KY has alot more land as well . Yet KY has less deer harvested something in KY is completely a miss as management goes there ,they should be doing much better than this and simply are not . Something about KY deer seasons or the hunters there is rotten I think to spoof a Shakespeare play of words . Please save the argument and lame comparison for a less educated deer hunter who is easily blinded by rhetoric and psycho babble. Also I could care less KY put like 10 more bucks in a record book than we did you should you have more deer and more deer hunters. Also with a poor harvest track record like the hunters in KY put out year in and out by percentages and hunter days afield and weapon type selection being so much better than ours its no wonder that the deer there are safe from all being shot!! LMAO Honestly I could care less your feelings about" all "the deer being killed off in this state as you don't live here and will simply move over state boarders when numbers change in the areas you hunt. I am more concerned about smaller individual areas of counties being hammered to heavily or whole counties being basically shot out of good stable huntable numbers in areas of the state that were heavily protected just 10 years ago. Yet they are still comparatively low harvest numbers compaired to the south and north ends of this state , that carry super high deer hunter numbers . All this in the name of bring in line the deers numbers to social levels of deer herd management oh and both hunters and DNR hiding behind opportunity mantras.I call BS its about tag sales and money derived from it and some lame attempt at trophy buck management by our DNR who in fact never were and are not supposed to be in that business now are they !! ??Let me answer that NO! And yes history can and will repeat its self because of short mindedness and ambivalence of short sited people in denial.Never say Never in any aspect of life especially where a governmental body loosing site for money is concerned.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 20:48:28 GMT -5
KY has 240,000 deer hunters, your numbers are including all hunting license buyers. Last I heard, Indiana had about the same, maybe a tad more.
You win. I'm done with this. I'll continue to manage the deer herd in our properties and do what I can to make sure they don't go extinct on us.
|
|
|
Post by duff on Dec 14, 2011 21:30:39 GMT -5
You ever heard of markey hunting??? Doesn't exsisit anymore. History will not repeat itself. Hard hunted does, can and will get as hard to see and kill as will bucks. Won't happen. Let's not forget the massive changes to the habitat. That in and of itself is enough to damage the population. I know "hunting" has been blamed for lots of the extinction and extrapations accross the country but let's be realistic. Most of those populations could easily withstood the hunting if it were not for the shrinking/changing habitat that destroyed the populations ability to be sustained. Sorry if this has been stated. I have not read any of this thread except for the last 2 pages...carry on!
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Dec 15, 2011 9:33:41 GMT -5
"Between 600,000-750,000." That's what our deer biologist estimate's our deer herd?? LOL How many year's you gotta go to school to get such a precise estimate. IMO to me that mean's they "DNR" has no idea how many deer Indiana has. My guess is closer to 500,000. And I gotta believe my "SWAG" (Scientific wild ass guess) is as close as DNR's.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Dec 15, 2011 9:57:22 GMT -5
I've never seen any estimate from Chad on the population of our herd..
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Dec 15, 2011 10:28:41 GMT -5
I'm using number's from a previous post. I have researched and hav'nt seen an estimate from our biogist either.
|
|
|
Post by lugnutz on Dec 15, 2011 10:35:07 GMT -5
KY has 240,000 deer hunters, your numbers are including all hunting license buyers. Last I heard, Indiana had about the same, maybe a tad more. You win. I'm done with this. I'll continue to manage the deer herd in our properties and do what I can to make sure they don't go extinct on us. Thats some funny stuff right there!
|
|
|
Post by lugnutz on Dec 15, 2011 10:38:29 GMT -5
I'm using number's from a previous post. I have researched and hav'nt seen an estimate from our biogist either. You can give up looking for anything scientific from Chad S. The info the he knows and the info that the DNR wants us to know will always be different. Poor guy is a puppet in the hands of our DNR.
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Dec 15, 2011 11:32:45 GMT -5
Don't know the guy personally, but correct me if i'm wrong. I believe the deer biologist position is appointed by the governor ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2011 12:46:40 GMT -5
KY has 240,000 deer hunters, your numbers are including all hunting license buyers. Last I heard, Indiana had about the same, maybe a tad more. You win. I'm done with this. I'll continue to manage the deer herd in our properties and do what I can to make sure they don't go extinct on us. Thats some funny stuff right there! Don't see the humor, but what ever? Anyway, if you've ever been involved in any way with "state level" deer management, you would know that it involves deer models, that predict the population of a deer herd. In fact, most states use more than one(KY uses 4 different models). These models don't count every deer, but are the best science available to predict what's out there. There is no other way. There is also no way to count total number of any wild animal, and even counting the number of hunters is often an estimate because of landowners hunting free and others that do not buy a license. When counting deer, it can never be specific obviously. Thenyou have pre-hunt and post-hunt nimbers. One thing that is important and something that specific landowners have control over is recruitment of fawns. want more deer, improve the recruiment rate. High antlerless limits are only there for those that need them, no deer manager expects anyone to kill all legally possible. Lug- I'm curious, how do you rate your hunting. Let's see, you had a booner on the property you hunt, killed a nice buck, your son killed a nice buck, and you all killed multiple does. How much better do you want it?
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Dec 15, 2011 13:33:13 GMT -5
Timex I'm not blowing smoke up your rear. You have many valid point's and I'm pretty happy with hunting in my area currently. But i am concerned that WE/HUNTER'S are taking to many antlerless in alot of area's and am more concerned about the future. My home county is a 8 bonus antlerless and has been for some time, yet i see no evidence that the deer herd is growing and from my observation's seem's to be declining.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2011 14:03:59 GMT -5
8 bonus is designed to keep numbers stable, IOWs, not allow growth. Really no sense discussing this over and over, you need to talk with Chad, learn why its a 8, and learn how to manage your own part of the county. In any county, there can be vastly different populations.
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Dec 15, 2011 15:23:07 GMT -5
Allready managing my farm and have adjoining landowner's that do also. Still would like to see antlerless lowered to at least a 4.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2011 16:30:06 GMT -5
Simple, just shoot 4 less times.
|
|
|
Post by schall53 on Dec 15, 2011 16:40:29 GMT -5
No, it's not that simple. Somehow you have to get the people that hunt around you, that think because there is an 8 bonus limit there is an unlimited number of deer, to stop shooting every deer they see!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2011 16:48:48 GMT -5
Again, how many people are doing the max? . How many people still do nine? . I'm betting, if a county is an 8, somewhere in that county there is either a high number of farm complaints and/or vehicle deer conflicts. On the flip side, if there are very few deer in an area, how are you going to shoot 8 does anyway?
|
|
|
Post by schall53 on Dec 15, 2011 17:48:49 GMT -5
Not necessarily, I live and hunt in St. Joseph Co. Home of South bend and Mishawaka, in other words an extremely high traffic area. You put 10 times more cars on the road and your deer accidents are going to be high. That doesn't mean you have a huge population. The people that hunt around me don't have a clue how high the population is. Their reasoning is if the population wasn't high they wouldn't have that many tags available. They don't have to take 8 deer to hurt the population. As low as it is now if you take any it really hurts. We have not shot a doe off of the 320 acre farm in the last 5 years. In that length of time we have gone from seeing one or two deer a day to one or two a week and most of those are now bucks. Without the does the herd will never rebound.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Dec 15, 2011 18:01:34 GMT -5
Not necessarily, I live and hunt in St. Joseph Co. Home of South bend and Mishawaka, in other words an extremely high traffic area. You put 10 times more cars on the road and your deer accidents are going to be high. That doesn't mean you have a huge population. The people that hunt around me don't have a clue how high the population is. Their reasoning is if the population wasn't high they wouldn't have that many tags available. They don't have to take 8 deer to hurt the population. As low as it is now if you take any it really hurts. We have not shot a doe off of the 320 acre farm in the last 5 years. In that length of time we have gone from seeing one or two deer a day to one or two a week and most of those are now bucks. Without the does the herd will never rebound. But the DNR still wants a one buck quota....
|
|