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Post by trapperdave on Dec 17, 2011 12:48:45 GMT -5
When you claim to know more than trianed, paid professional biologists, you loose any credibility you might have. Years of experience in the field, doesn't equate to the vast knowledge of deer management that professional biologist have. Any person who is qualified enough to be the head deer biologist of a state, any state for that matter, could eat your lunch in a one to one discussion on deer management. Try it sometime. I agree just as well hire an accountant to fill the state biologist position
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 17, 2011 12:50:34 GMT -5
When you claim to know more than trianed, paid professional biologists, you loose any credibility you might have. Years of experience in the field, doesn't equate to the vast knowledge of deer management that professional biologist have. Any person who is qualified enough to be the head deer biologist of a state, any state for that matter, could eat your lunch in a one to one discussion on deer management. Try it sometime. Horse hockey been in many such discussions about it and they show the same tired line of shoot em up if the area needs it routine!! Second this argument here means dic and here is why you hunt 150 to 200 miles from our area and quite frankly would bring you brand of deer management and hunting up here and get it handed to you year after year .Since 75% of the woods or creek lines here can be seen through standing in the middle of them and hunting the edges here gets you yearling's only. Its a totally different deer ,land ,habitat up here where there might be 50 or 100 acres of cover per every 600 of homes crop Fields and out buildings . You need to get off the high ways when you travel sometime and travel well north of Indy.to the corn belt a few times throw up a tree stand .then you might have a real clue up here what the real differences are high hunter densities most area are 8 or 10 hunters per sq mile here the are some blocks here that have 20 or 30 hunters per sq mile that might have 150 acres total cover and trees . Now stuff that into 100 acres of tree lines and woods !! I have hunted southern IN and its a completely different story more deer more cover and way way less hunters . Many things are different and trying to blanket manage or brouhaha each others management or lack there of 150 miles away is paramount to saying I like vanilla and you like chocolate so your wrong and QDM is a joke when there are 20 land owners or even 5 per sq mile up here with 20 hunters that will shoot things in the name of management only to find out later the 2 guys next to you filled all 8 tags on fawns and a couple of does then shoot the 1.5 six and 8 you let walk. And its happened twice in 2 years to me and my numbers are in the toilet now. Now set there IL fella and tell us how to manage our deer here in IN and how wrong many of us are .That's the real sad joke here you don't own land here or live here yet feel compelled to ram your brand of Deer management and made up numbers down our throats and its getting old . I am sure your a nice enough guy and have your brand of management down in areas with lots of food cover and deer down to what works there .But please stop trying to delude everyone every where what you do there will work every where because it would fail miserably here I KNOW I BEEN THERE for 10 years doing it exactly your way the QDM managment way ,and it always made it worse and ended in only frustration and settling in late season and a pitifully shot over deer herd .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2011 12:56:03 GMT -5
Well...at least you finally dropped the A off of QDM_.
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 17, 2011 12:59:22 GMT -5
Also tell me how smart the Biologists and state is when the y make a county with exactly the same deer numbers and cover and terrain an 8 with an A county and two 2 quota counties next to it Wait just 4 miles from my house you cant even kill a bonus antler less deer till after the second weekend yet they want us to in essence kill 12 here after the 8 quota . I'm calling stupidity or political BS here not sound deer herd management . Like I said keep throwing stones because you got no clue . We killed 400 deer in the whole county last year what will this year be ?? If its an urban deer thing because the town and housing developments we have here then set an urban zone with exact boarders don't kill off the whole damn county because there is a town soccer mom mini van issue here . Its still either a 2 or an A here which one ?? Lets make a little sense here not make ourselves at the DNR look like a bunch of blithering idiots with the limits that surround our county its obvious they are clueless to the deer herd damage they cause here in the areas that dont need it as the sit behind their desks down there looking at a paper of car deer collisions that are almost all less than 3 miles from town! .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2011 13:27:36 GMT -5
I can guarantee that there's a reason that the county is an 8 instead of something lower, may be farm complaints, may be a major road with a lot of deer/vehicle collisons or an urban area. It's likely that those such counties will never be zoned lower, becausae of high populated areas where little or no hunting can take place. Landowners hunting in that county have to micro manage their own lands, there is no other way. Several years of lower harvest may result in a lower quota. If the harvest stays the same or goes up, it likely won't. When you learn way a county is zoned, it will make things a little easier for you to understand. If I was you, I try to keep an open mind and call the DNR and ask for a sitdown with Chad or one of the other biologists and get the basic info, and then see the info that the DNR has on that county. If you had a relative or close friend killed or maimed in a deer vehicle collison, you may have a different outlook about high zoning in some areas. The DNR has to manage the deer and it's not always for just the hunters.
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 17, 2011 13:46:50 GMT -5
I can guarantee that there's a reason that the county is an 8 instead of something lower, may be farm complaints, may be a major road with a lot of deer/vehicle collisons or an urban area. It's likely that those such counties will never be zoned lower, becausae of high populated areas where little or no hunting can take place. Landowners hunting in that county have to micro manage their own lands, there is no other way. Several years of lower harvest may result in a lower quota. If the harvest stays the same or goes up, it likely won't. When you learn way a county is zoned, it will make things a little easier for you to understand. If I was you, I try to keep an open mind and call the DNR and ask for a sitdown with Chad or one of the other biologists and get the basic info, and then see the info that the DNR has on that county. If you had a relative or close friend killed or maimed in a deer vehicle collision, you may have a different outlook about high zoning in some areas. The DNR has to manage the deer and it's not always for just the hunters. I understand the nuances you described but the fact is there could be 1 deer left in any modern Indiana county and it could and would likely end up in a car grill eventually . The fact is we had a state reps family member hit a deer a few years back I know I saw it she never once hung up the cell phone after the collision and I suspect she never hung up from the collision we also had a motorcyclist get killed that year when he hit a deer on a rural road at 2:30 at nite .Still you can not fix stupid or careless behavior . Farm damage from deer here is very minimal .Coon and squirrel destroy 10 times the crops that the local deer herd do We own a 100 acre farm here so I know this first hand. As I said if its cars and deer collision declare a urban zone start the bow hunting in Sept and give the rest of the county a freaking break already .Simply put the city boy hunters come out fill as many tags as they can or want with zero thought to how many deer and other hunters are actually in the area .They shoot till they get board with it and then we land owners who want a first class deer herd and mature bucks are left with the scraps to make do !! I stopped managing anything but my trigger finger 5 years ago when we were made a 4 bonus county.I and my wife both years ago hit a few deer while driveing to and from town .But honestly it was our fault both times we were young and way way too wrapped up in our own little 30 foot circle of a world and life we had . Since then we have learned to slow down just a little and pay attention to the world around us and that has in every example saved us from hitting deer ,live stock ,other vehicles ,and on more than one occasion some idiot from town on a bike or joggiong on a country road !! For gods sake city people are stupid at best .
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 17, 2011 13:57:09 GMT -5
Honestly Timex I envy your situation and location .I would not know what to do with myself if I could hunt IL.KY.and IN all in one season and then not only hunt them hunt them on large well managed tracts where the taking of a few deer don't make a hill of beans .Where there are as many mature or mostly mature bucks and so many does that you don't have to think about the consequences of shooting just one of them on your hundred acre plot of land .
This is exactly why I have moveed to shooting a button for meat here .I hate it but I must shooting more does here is out of the question now for me . I have hunted deer for 36 years and never had as much stress or anxiety over a kill as I do now with the OBR and doe slaughter festival here.Now it would seem every deer I kill buck or doe has some sort of negative inclination or efffect where I hunt and I am growing weary of it and quite frankly the enjoyment I got from it is almost gone now.
Timex I truely wish you and your hunting club well get out of it what you want . I am tired of talking to DNR folks with my words falling on closed deaf ears and wanabe town hunters here who are in fact just well juist eithr blind or stupid ,or greedy . Its worn me out.
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Post by ncmountainman on Dec 17, 2011 20:47:51 GMT -5
Indiana is a great state to hunt in. No doubt about it. Those that don't think so should try hunting in the other 40 states that are MUCH worse. Sure, GA and other states have more deer but it is a bigger state with much more wooded land. Also has many more hunters and close to a three month gun season. WMA's or National Forest land (public) are lucky to have a 10% success rate. Private land is the only way to go. Now....you have to lease land. 25 guys on 1200 acreas hunting for three months in a pine plantation that harvest a total of 15 deer and think they've done well. Biggest buck harvested this year is a 110" 8 pointer. Cost...about $600 per person not including gas, etc. They think they've done well. True story. I've been hunting in Indiana for a little over 15 years. See just as many deer as ever and the bucks do seem to be better quality. I hunt on 100 acreas with 4 locals with the three farms around me being 400, 100, and 100 acreas. Good bucks killed each year and lots of does. NO QDM going on at all. Not possible with small tracts and neighbors won't get together on a restriction type of hunt self imposed. Lots of things to take into consideration on producing B&C caliber bucks. Indiana is in the top 10 states now. Sounds good to me. Each year I hear of people that can't find much less shoot a deer close to where I'm hunting. What? Quit watching TV and hunting fields. Get in and around the thickets where deer live. All of us humans are conditioned to our own perspectives according to life experiences. Indiana is a great place to hunt with big body weights, great mass, and corn fed taste. YUM. 8 doe county where I hunt but I've never heard of anyone getting that many. Doesn't matter what the limit is if only a very very few are taking advantage of it. I thank GOD for the blessing of being able to hunt in Indiana each year and hope it continues.
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Post by lugnutz on Dec 18, 2011 11:24:15 GMT -5
Billybadteeth, if i were in your shoe's. I wouldn't be at my computer at 2 in the afternoon cryin' about shootin buttons for meat on your 100acre farm, i'd probably be in the woods.
You realize, that you can sign up for park and military hunts. I took an 8pt and 4 does on top of what i've shot off my land, from park hunts this year.
You also realize that your odds of killing a first class buck off your property isn't gonna happen, so move on. If it were that easy we'd all be killing B&C bucks.
It is what it is, and its not gonna change...And if you don't change the way you hunt or where you hunt, your never gonna get that chance at a "first class" buck.
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Post by saltydog on Dec 18, 2011 11:42:47 GMT -5
I'm gettin sleepy !!!!!
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 18, 2011 13:34:25 GMT -5
Billybadteeth, if i were in your shoe's. I wouldn't be at my computer at 2 in the afternoon cryin' about shootin buttons for meat on your 100acre farm, i'd probably be in the woods. You realize, that you can sign up for park and military hunts. I took an 8pt and 4 does on top of what i've shot off my land, from park hunts this year. You also realize that your odds of killing a first class buck off your property isn't gonna happen, so move on. If it were that easy we'd all be killing B&C bucks. It is what it is, and its not gonna change...And if you don't change the way you hunt or where you hunt, your never gonna get that chance at a "first class" buck. Lugnutz why not be at my computer I have killed my yearly buck and a meat deer. There are only 3 of us here at the house now so in fact I am done for this season. I don't believe in killing for killing sake so taking another doe would not be right for me.Please don't underestimate my ability to make good in a bad situation as far as buck hunting is concerned. Simply put up until a handful of years ago maybe 5 or so years the hunting here was top notch for mature bucks by hunters who got what made them tick.Then came the doe killing and then came the masses of hunters with little clue as to what the deer herd here was like.I held the county typical record here for 10 years then my hunting buddy took it 3 years ago and still holds it. Here is a pick of one of my never gonna happen bucks prior to 5 years ago and open season here yep almost 14 in g2s 5.5 yeras old.And the next pic is just part of my den wall below . I know deer and mature bucks my friend and I know what it takes here to kill them but this area herd management is now in the toilet . BTW I was killing these type bucks many years prior to the farce called OBR. I did hunt some park hunts over the years since 2001 but they were not my cup of tea I dislike having 100 hunters all over me slinging lead while I hunt. And quite frankly I will not set on stand for 2 days staring at other hunters from the stand just to shoot a couple of over hunted undersized does and killing a basket racked 1.5 or 2.5 year old holds no interest to me at all. I in fact have a wall of giants so its not like I'm some noob that just is complaining about never killing big bucks .I have seen what has happened here in the name of deer herd reduction. lol Attachments:
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 18, 2011 13:41:08 GMT -5
The one in the middle was the Booker I mentioned here . But my buddy took that away and I am happy for him he worked hard for it and took it the first year at 4 quota but he has seen a serious decline in herd and buck age and antler size as well .Does make the bucks here and also draw them in in the rut low deer numbers lower siting poor hunting past a certain level. It reminds me now of the early mid 1980s here now . On a side note I have decided however that it is time to branch out again and look where there are higher deer herd numbers for some hunting land .But with that comes travel time and weekday hunting will not happen much just some weekends or vacation time . I will need to drive lose to 1.5 to 2 hrs for the kind of herd size I am looking for according to harvest numbers and I will be traveling north unfortunately since it is closer than the big south river zone. So I have already since my season closed have come to the move or suffer conclusion I will likely only hunt here through the work week days on my own land and you know that's really sad to think about. I am looking at hunting a plus 3000 kill county and leaving a 400 kill county .Makes a guy say HMMMMMM a new adventure is coming after the close of season this winter I will be traveling to scout and look around and perhaps start knocking on doors. Attachments:
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 18, 2011 15:49:33 GMT -5
Here is my hunting buddy Clint's buck that replaced mine at the top of the heap lol He was a dandy as well . Clint and his buddy Chris are part of the Midwest whitetail crew .I been hunting with and friends with them both for a long while and help them and bounce ideas off each other almost every day . But things will be changing he and I are planning to hopefully start scouting a new and promising areas far from here after seasons end. Attachments:
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 18, 2011 16:07:00 GMT -5
Also here is a buck that My everyday hunting partner took at a farm my family had permission to hunt that was 1.25 hrs from our home north for 25 years last season when we went on a Oct afternoon hunt. But like all other things this money for buck deer, leaseing land thing took it from us this year .A group of 6 men from a very large northern city took it from us by offering a very large amount of money to the old farmer . I dont blame him but just 3 of us took more deer for him the last year we hunted than the 6 men together took this season .It was close to 500 acres and terrific and was a great weekend hunt for us . I called in this buck for him with a doe bleat and series of buck grunts it easily booked as well . See I am not just railing about stupid things here I do have a good Idea how to manage my own hunts and hunt mature deer . I'm just getting to old for this sort of issues to just hunt decent bucks with good numbers of deer attached to the land I hunt. Attachments:
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Post by jager on Dec 18, 2011 17:40:28 GMT -5
Some nice deer for sure. The bases on Clint's buck looked huge. Did that deer have a mohawk?
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 18, 2011 17:43:35 GMT -5
Some nice deer for sure. The bases on Clint's buck looked huge. Did that deer have a mohawk? LoL not really the hair on his forehead was roughed up from rubbing and tree sap as I remember .
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Post by lugnutz on Dec 18, 2011 20:33:44 GMT -5
I guess i still don't get it, if i had 100 acre's to play with, i wouldn't need to shoot a button buck for meat, thats pathetic at best. Thats why i mentioned park hunts, you want meat and undersized doe is bigger than a 6mo. old button.
You mention you have alot of hunting pressure from outside of your 100 acre's...It would seem with the right kinda plan, your property would be a refuge from the "city boys"....
Sorry hard for me to show any sympathy in your situation, when you say "a man was killed" and you "can't fix stupid" in the same sentence...
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 18, 2011 22:04:25 GMT -5
I guess i still don't get it, if i had 100 acre's to play with, i wouldn't need to shoot a button buck for meat, thats pathetic at best. Thats why i mentioned park hunts, you want meat and undersized doe is bigger than a 6mo. old button. You mention you have alot of hunting pressure from outside of your 100 acre's...It would seem with the right kinda plan, your property would be a refuge from the "city boys".... Sorry hard for me to show any sympathy in your situation, when you say "a man was killed" and you "can't fix stupid" in the same sentence... Really last time I looked a button buck is an antlerless deer that produces nothing but meat and will almost certainly leave anyways !! And in a herd that's being depleted you sure as don't kill a doe for the sake of meat! Second Lest see running almost 70mph on a very dark country road at 2:30 am is plain and simple as stupid as it gets . Those two things are not even arguable facts .I know I owned a hogg for several years and when riding in the country at nite or any time for that matter you don't run almost 70 or 60 or 55 you keep it slow .It was not the deers fault the guy had no sense about his safety. The guy who was killed rode with my Brother in law alot and I am sorry for the loss to his family but that does not make him or in this case his actions any less stupid on that nite.He was always a little heavy on the throttle its not a put down its just the facts. Second The button buck I killed was 82 # FD and finest eating meat there is .I will continue to shoot them over a old doe any day . As stated 100 acres can not be made into crap or hold a single deer even one single day when they travel in excess of a mile every single day in hunting season once the crops come out because its in their nature to do so . lol . You are so worried that someone might kill a buck before it gets 4.5 years old and under your stand you fail to see the bigger picture here. You will never ever see a single deer that I can shoot while hunting because you live no where near me yet worry about what I kill .But the hunters all around me for a mile will see them and I will see the deer they claim as thiers as well. As I stated I refuse to have a 100 plus lead slingers setting on me able to set eye to eye with me, That's simply stupid for anyone to place themselves in a situation like that when they don't have too ,and its not safe no matter how you paint it.
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 18, 2011 22:59:02 GMT -5
Well Lug since I am breaking your assumptions about me let me break the one that makes you think I have not tried to make my land attractive for the local deer herd to stay here .Here i just one of 4 food plots I have planted.I have cleared the canopy some to get some sun light there and half my cover is off limits for bedding and safety for the deer.Here is one of my food plots here in the pic. Attachments:
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 18, 2011 23:01:34 GMT -5
Here is a pic that shows some clear area that allows sun lite into the woods with a blind I built over looking it . Attachments:
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