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Post by hunter480 on Nov 7, 2006 0:46:54 GMT -5
Not this one brother...Less then 40,000 a year, just willing to save and work hard for it and then come up there as a reward of my hard work...Its about priorities and how you live. You dont have to be rich to lease... Exactly.....got to have priorities. Good post. Good for you Gator-that you`ve been fortunate enough to be able to save your pennies to pay to the likes of timex so you can hunt-however-you both are wrong on many different levels. You`re wrong that everyone can afford to lease, regardless of your smug retort, and it`s wrong for you to make blanket statements about people`s situations that you know nothing about. Again, it`s great for you that you have the good fortune to be able to lease a spot to hunt-everyone however, isn`t as fortunate. And many of us, even though we might be able to swing it, WILL NOT pay folks like timex to do our leg work for us.
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Post by Decatur on Nov 7, 2006 7:02:57 GMT -5
Who care how much the farmer gets and how much the lease agent gets, so long as they and the hunter client are all happy with the deal. Profit is not a dirty word. For those crying about hunting being turned into a business, I've got news for you .... This has been going on for hundreds of years. Sportsmen have turned to and paid guides, outfitters, etc. since the beginning of sport hunting to get them into game rich areas where they would have a good opportunity to harvest game and trophies. Fred Bear, Jack O'Conner, Roy Weatherby, Chuck Adams, John Browning, Peter Capstick, and all the other big shot names and heros in the hunting scene have contributed to the commercialization of hunting at one time or another, as have all of you and I. Everytime you buy a hunting DVD, watch a hunting show, buy a name brand hunting product, etc., you are involved in the commercialization of hunting. People invoved in the hunting industry offer products and services, and anybody that spends $$ with them is just as gulty as the next when it comes to commercializing hunting. For that matter, websites like this in the mainstream media, which we all chat away on contribute to the commercialization of hunting. Look at the advertisements on here. Do those folks provide services for free? So cry about your sacred sport being commercialized all you want, but we are all guilty, and it's been going on for a real long time. Just so happens that it might be getting a little closer or deeper into a few folks pocket books than it has in the past, so folks are getting riled. You gotta pay to play. Quit hunting if you don't like the current situation. I can assure you it won't get any easier or cheaper, and there will be plenty of good sports to jump right in, when one jumps out. The point in my statement was, I wonder how much the farmer actually receives. I don't care about anyone ,making a profit, I just don't like the idea of the middle man making all the dough!
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Post by drs on Nov 7, 2006 7:51:06 GMT -5
You know, a lot of leaseholders are going to be very angry, after paying out big bucks, if they find out the area, they leased for Deer hunting, had many Deer, that died from EPIZOOTIC HEMORRHAGIC DISEASE. They just may not see the amount of Deer they were expecting as per the information they received by the outfitter or leasor. That's crazy. Lease holders know deer as well as you or I. Blue tongue kills a few every year, never kills them all. Nice try, just doesn't factor in. We never had this problem where I hunt. Anyway I certainly wouldn't hunt an area where the Deer are in poor health.
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Post by drs on Nov 7, 2006 7:54:11 GMT -5
Could it be that it's because NR hunters have Bigger Bankrolls - by default? Naah. Not this one brother...Less then 40,000 a year, just willing to save and work hard for it and then come up there as a reward of my hard work...Its about priorities and how you live. You dont have to be rich to lease... Anyone, who is willing to part with their money, and give it to a Cartel is IMHO a SUCKER!
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Post by paul3 on Nov 7, 2006 8:43:13 GMT -5
I,m not an agent, but I know how it works. They find out the least dollar amount the farmer will take lets say 5.00 dollars an acre. Then figure what they can lease it to hunters for, it might be 10.00 dollars an acre or 100.00 dollars an arce. IT dosn,t matter how much they get. The farmer only gets the 5.00 dollars an acre! Thats somthing they don,t want the hunters to know. They could make up to a 1000% profit or more on some deals!!!
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Post by Decatur on Nov 7, 2006 8:48:40 GMT -5
I,m not an agent, but I know how it works. They find out the least dollar amount the farmer will take lets say 5.00 dollars an acre. Then figure what they can lease it to hunters for, it might be 10.00 dollars an acre or 100.00 dollars an arce. IT dosn,t matter how much they get. The farmer only gets the 5.00 dollars an acre! Thats somthing they don,t want the hunters to know. They could make up to a 1000% profit or more on some deals!!! That is just wrong! I would think it would be more like 60/40 in the farmers favor, at LEAST!
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Post by Hawkeye on Nov 7, 2006 10:52:48 GMT -5
I,m not an agent, but I know how it works. They find out the least dollar amount the farmer will take lets say 5.00 dollars an acre. Then figure what they can lease it to hunters for, it might be 10.00 dollars an acre or 100.00 dollars an arce. IT dosn,t matter how much they get. The farmer only gets the 5.00 dollars an acre! Thats somthing they don,t want the hunters to know. They could make up to a 1000% profit or more on some deals!!! Last year while looking for hunting property several farmers told me this same story, They get a set low ball price for their land. no matter what the leasing agents get for the lease, the farmer /landowner gets only the set low price.
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on Nov 7, 2006 10:58:46 GMT -5
I,m not an agent, but I know how it works. They find out the least dollar amount the farmer will take lets say 5.00 dollars an acre. Then figure what they can lease it to hunters for, it might be 10.00 dollars an acre or 100.00 dollars an arce. IT dosn,t matter how much they get. The farmer only gets the 5.00 dollars an acre! Thats somthing they don,t want the hunters to know. They could make up to a 1000% profit or more on some deals!!! If that's the case,I think farmers or landowners would be better off doing it themselves.I would go talk to a lawyer and get everything all legal then start advertising.I can't recall seeing any adds in the paper from a farmer wanting tolease his ground out,atleast around here.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Nov 7, 2006 11:38:53 GMT -5
Could it be that it's because NR hunters have Bigger Bankrolls - by default? Naah. Not this one brother...Less then 40,000 a year, just willing to save and work hard for it and then come up there as a reward of my hard work...Its about priorities and how you live. You dont have to be rich to lease... Good for you Gator. Now try it again on less than $24K - with a disabled spouse. Not everybody is so lucky.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2006 12:02:22 GMT -5
Not this one brother...Less then 40,000 a year, just willing to save and work hard for it and then come up there as a reward of my hard work...Its about priorities and how you live. You dont have to be rich to lease... Good for you Gator. Now try it again on less than $24K - with a disabled spouse. Not everybody is so lucky. Form a group and pool the money or hunt public. Your choice. As for how much Basecamp might make, it's about 25% of the lease price. Out of that they buy the insurance, which costs them about 15 cents an acre.
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Post by hunter480 on Nov 7, 2006 12:44:42 GMT -5
Good for you Gator. Now try it again on less than $24K - with a disabled spouse. Not everybody is so lucky. Form a group and pool the money or hunt public. Your choice. As for how much Basecamp might make, it's about 25% of the lease price. Out of that they buy the insurance, which costs them about 15 cents an acre. Or go grassroots and get the DNR, (or some other group), to help get rid of the middleman, see that the landowner gets a fair shake, plus the hunter doen`t get shaken down. BETTER chioce!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2006 12:55:25 GMT -5
Form a group and pool the money or hunt public. Your choice. As for how much Basecamp might make, it's about 25% of the lease price. Out of that they buy the insurance, which costs them about 15 cents an acre. Or go grassroots and get the DNR, (or some other group), to help get rid of the middleman, see that the landowner gets a fair shake, plus the hunter doen`t get shaken down. BETTER chioce! You do that...see what the farmers think about it. The end result will be LESS total acres open to hunting, and more people using already crowded public hunting. But you could pat yourself on the back that you got even with the man!!!
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Post by hunter480 on Nov 7, 2006 13:18:04 GMT -5
Or go grassroots and get the DNR, (or some other group), to help get rid of the middleman, see that the landowner gets a fair shake, plus the hunter doen`t get shaken down. BETTER chioce! You do that...see what the farmers think about it. The end result will be LESS total acres open to hunting, and more people using already crowded public hunting. But you could pat yourself on the back that you got even with the man!!! Well, for starters, you ain`t da man. But do please explain how removing the middleman changes things. How doing that means less acreage open to hunting. Enquiring minds want to know.
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Post by Decatur on Nov 7, 2006 13:26:29 GMT -5
Form a group and pool the money or hunt public. Your choice. As for how much Basecamp might make, it's about 25% of the lease price. Out of that they buy the insurance, which costs them about 15 cents an acre. Or go grassroots and get the DNR, (or some other group), to help get rid of the middleman, see that the landowner gets a fair shake, plus the hunter doen`t get shaken down.BETTER chioce! Sounds like a good idea.
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Post by Decatur on Nov 7, 2006 13:28:18 GMT -5
Good for you Gator. Now try it again on less than $24K - with a disabled spouse. Not everybody is so lucky. Form a group and pool the money or hunt public. Your choice. As for how much Basecamp might make, it's about 25% of the lease price. Out of that they buy the insurance, which costs them about 15 cents an acre. No wonder leasing is soo expensive! Fifteen whole cents an acre! Highway robbery!!
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Gator
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Post by Gator on Nov 7, 2006 17:35:17 GMT -5
Not this one brother...Less then 40,000 a year, just willing to save and work hard for it and then come up there as a reward of my hard work...Its about priorities and how you live. You dont have to be rich to lease... Good for you Gator. Now try it again on less than $24K - with a disabled spouse. Not everybody is so lucky. Ok, old ironsights, not sure what your response is implying...but if you think that I was bragging about making less than 40K a year....or what....But if less than 40k a year for a family of 4 makes me a rich non-resident than so be it... If I was in the less than 24k tax bracket than i wouldnt be able to do it...Does that mean because I am not in that situation I shouldnt do what i want with it...or mean that I should be shunned by a group of hunters that think they own the deer? I doubt it... But if you would ever like to come and hunt out of state down here in Georgia your welcome on my land anytime you want. For free. Want a guided turkey hunt? Come on, I'll call one to you and let you shoot it. The way i look at it, us hunters are starting to sound like our worst enemies on this thread...It aint Basecamp, or another company or even anti-hunting groups that are our problems...It seems to be our own kind... Lets all try to preserve the sport of hunting so that my kids and yours will someday be able to enjoy the greatest activity known to man! Im sorry that some of y'all dont like that non-residents appreciate the opportunity to be able to come up to the midwest and hunt deer. Im headed up there tomorrow evening...and i will be one of the most thankful people to be up there, and with a good attitude whether I take the deer im looking for or not...It's just the fact that I can take a week off, go out of state and do something I love. Good luck to you this season, and be safe.
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 7, 2006 18:08:56 GMT -5
......and the best of luck to you Gator on one of these big old Hoosier bucks. We have enough to spare a few for the non-resident hunters. Like you, I've always enjoyed out of state hunts. I've hunted 11 states and a province. Some of those states/province multiple times. I enjoyed every one of my out of state trips. Enjopy your jaunt north in search of an Indaina buck. If there is anything any of us can do to help you, let us know. .
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Gator
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Post by Gator on Nov 7, 2006 18:12:21 GMT -5
......and the best of luck to you Gator on one of these big old Hoosier bucks. We have enough to spare a few for the non-resident hunters. Like you, I've always enjoyed out of state hunts. I've hunted 11 states and a province. Some of those states/province multiple times. I enjoyed every one of my out of state trips. Enjopy your jaunt north in search of an Indaina buck. If there is anything any of us can do to help you, let us know. . Thanks Woody, I've actually met one member from here that hunts right down the road from where my leased farm is, and he has been giving me crop cutting reports, rutting reports and good info about places to eat and stuff like that...Hopefully i will report back in 10 days with some good pics to show off.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Nov 7, 2006 18:38:27 GMT -5
Thank you Gator. I wan't implying you are rich, just that at some point there is no longer income 'disposable' enough to stuff into timex's pocket for the "privilege" of bypassing getting to know the landowner to hunt on some farmer's land sight-unseen. I would certainly want to meet you, and you me before I took you up on your offer. I don't see how conglomerate Leasing encourages that.
And you are also right about infighting. I'm certainly against infighting, but I'm also against anything that makes it more difficult/less safe for hunters - especially those of lesser means who just might need that meat more than some people (resident or not) need their overpriced "for profit" lease and don't want to risk their life at a F&W area free-fire zone.
I'm certainly not against non residents hunting the state - see above and my fight to get pistol-caliber carbines allowed (I bet I can use my .357 carbine in Georgia...). The problem is, as many have said, when the system gets skewed to the point where the Private Land is held by exclusive interests and available only to the highest bidder.
From what I have read, it does not appear to me that you have leased through a conglomeate - and therefore have a working relationship with the land owner. The sceneraio that worries me, and should worry you, is that of the land owner - or his heirs - deciding that if you want to lease, you will have to go through a conglomerate... at X-times the price.
You do have to wonder how far these leasing companies are willing to go. Really, where does the line between For Profit Game Farms end and For Profit Leasing begin? To me, the only difference is the height of the fence.
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Gator
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Post by Gator on Nov 7, 2006 18:44:42 GMT -5
Iron sights...what part of the state is Michigan City in relation to the Rochester or Peru area. We are hunting right inbetween the two towns. Id like to get to meet as many of y'all as I could over the trips up there. And yes you can use your .357 carbine down here. We are lucky to have really liberal seasons with all weapons and long seasons and 12 deer limits...(2 bucks) There are big deer down here, but so many more woods to hide in and our ruts are so spaced out and un-predictable- the big deer are pretty elusive. I've been lucky to take some really fine deer but all with rifle. I am bow only now and look forward to chasing some monster mid-western deer.
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