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Post by mattfinney on Apr 8, 2011 6:37:24 GMT -5
If it's only about introducing more effective weapons, why can't i use my 12 gauge during archery season as well.? I mean come on, think about how many more deer would/could be killed.
jjas, take a look at Ohio's firearms season. That, coupled with OBR, gives Ohio a high quality deer herd, even with full crossbow inclusion.
If you guys would take Ohio's firearms season, I would welcome crossbows. In other words, I can put up with A, if it means better management of B.
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Post by swilk on Apr 8, 2011 7:06:00 GMT -5
Definitely seen archers do some amazing things. Just not buying a bunch of guys consistantly shooting quarters at 80 yards. Who said that... Dont recall ever personally seeing a guy handle a bow well enough to shoot a quarter at 80 yards with any consistency. A quarter is under an inch. Hell ... I have owned many a gun that wouldnt shoot that well at 80 yards off a bench. Wish I could shoot a bow that well. You must not hang out at many archery ranges ? Not saying everyone can do it but alot can.He did.
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Post by js2397 on Apr 8, 2011 7:30:42 GMT -5
and that's why they should NOT be allowed in IN archery season?? they just too accurate and effective to harvest deer with?? what gives, man?? If you think that I'm against crossbows being used to hunt deer, you've completely misunderstood the point I'm trying to get across.....probably my fault, as I'm certainly no journalist. I just feel that they are too accurate and effective to be included into archery season, especially if you look back to when and why archery season first came about. So you want a season with ineffective and inaccurate weapons?
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Post by js2397 on Apr 8, 2011 7:32:42 GMT -5
INDeerhunter, Visit this webpage: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gly3bafUhcUYour crossbow might not be very accurate, but trust me, it's the exception. Modern crossbows are extremely accurate, and no crossbows require any archery skills. my 2 cents What is an archery skill?
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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 8, 2011 7:44:09 GMT -5
No, Matt, you did not answer the two referenced questions or any other question in the post.
Try it again…the four I am most interested in -
1) When did good accuracy become a negative in any form of hunting?
2) Please point out ANY state that has had a negative impact in the bow hunting season or to the resource after crossbows were allowed in the archery season. Just name one.
3) Please tell me how a bow hunter over on the next 40 will negatively impact your bow hunting if he is using a crossbow instead of an all bells and whistles, high let off, high tech compound.
4) (New one) Please give us some verifiable data that proves that the crossbow “drastically increases the effective range of many hunters”. IOW – what is the killing range extended by versus vertical bows. What survey shows crossbowers killing deer at an extended range? No, showing a video of a long range shooting expert shooting a crossbow doesn't cut it.
Since it is readily apparent that you do not want to share you deer hunting woods with anyone we should stop recruiting the youths to hunt with whatever they choose to hunt with, including vertical bows. We would not want those kids out there “putting more pressure on our buck population during the time when they are most vulnerable”. Now would we?
BTW – I thought that you always said that the present gun season was when “our buck population is the most vulnerable..”? Oh, wait… that was when you were trying to remove other hunters out of the woods.
I know, another question. Sorry Matt, but it seems to me that your overwhelming desire to kill a big buck at the expense of everyone else will consume you. Sad for someone so young to fall into that trap.
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Post by trapperdave on Apr 8, 2011 7:55:45 GMT -5
crossbows are NOT long range weapons...even the English in midievel times knew that. Crossbows were good for defending castles at close range, but the English Warbow(longbow) was their main arsenal for waging war. longer range, more accurate, faster to "reload", more deadly due to the battle shafts wgt. The LB coud put an arrow THRU chain mail at a few hundred yards.
Crossbows have a short power stroke, shoot light bolts that shed KE quickly, you will NOT get a second shot with one, they are heavy and cumbersome, LOUD....if anything (imo) they are more of a detriment in the deer woods. Correct me if Im wrong, but I think most that have to use one would prefer a verticle bow if possible.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2011 8:02:37 GMT -5
Keep in mind that Plan II is soley the property of the DNR. The DNR wanted the crossbow expansion in Plan I and it was poo-pooed by Joe and company, but wanted it included in Plan II to insure that all the tools needed to manage the herd are in place. You asked for biological input and got it, now some don't agree with either plan or the DNR biologuists and deer director that additional days of hunting may be needed either now or in the future. Some continue to talk out of both sides of their mouth at the same time.
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Post by mattfinney on Apr 8, 2011 8:15:23 GMT -5
Woody, if you are going to have total disregard and abandonment of the truth, then further debate is pointless. I've answered your questions, and if you can't see that, then you're living you life in complete denial man. Sad to see such an old man fall into such a trap.
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Post by mattfinney on Apr 8, 2011 8:20:53 GMT -5
So you want a season with ineffective and inaccurate weapons? Archery equipment is much less effective and accurate than firearms. Did you really not know this?
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Post by trapperdave on Apr 8, 2011 8:35:54 GMT -5
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Post by js2397 on Apr 8, 2011 8:41:22 GMT -5
So you want a season with ineffective and inaccurate weapons? Archery equipment is much less effective and accurate than firearms. Did you really not know this? I have always been very accurate with my bow. I don't know if it is as accurate as my gun but it is not much less accurate. As far as being effective the range is less but its ability to kill is close to the same.
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Post by mattfinney on Apr 8, 2011 8:41:46 GMT -5
Nope, in everybody's hands.
Look trapper, you're legally allowed to believe whatever you want to believe.....you can believe in Santa Claus and unicorns if you want, but reality always exists regardless of our beliefs. The goal should be to have our beliefs match reality, but clearly you only want to have your beliefs match what is comfortable, and that is what keeps you from seeing the truth.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2011 8:44:16 GMT -5
Woody, if you are going to have total disregard and abandonment of the truth, then further debate is pointless. I've answered your questions, and if you can't see that, then you're living you life in complete denial man. Sad to see such an old man fall into such a trap. Watch your mouth. Woody is mature, which is something you can't say for yourself. He was doing what you can do now when you were pooping yellow in your diaper.
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Post by mattfinney on Apr 8, 2011 8:45:58 GMT -5
You guys are living in a fanstasy. How many deer are killed by bowhunters past 50 yards?
How many deer are killed by firearms past 200 yards?
Firearms can be effective out to 1000 yards and beyond.
Gimme a break....
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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 8, 2011 8:46:48 GMT -5
Woody, if you are going to have total disregard and abandonment of the truth, then further debate is pointless. I've answered your questions, and if you can't see that, then you're living you life in complete denial man. Sad to see such an old man fall into such a trap. Looks like you have backed yourself into a corner and now want cut off debate. The DNR does not manage the deer herd so Matt can have a chance at a big buck with no one else in the deer woods. It manages the herd for the health of the herd and for ALL hunters. You dont want more hunters in the woods during archery season so we can grow more and bigger bucks. That is 100% contrary to what the DNR wants. They want to reduce the herd (bucks and does) during that time period BEFORE the peak deer and auto collision. The DNR had it in the original plan to have a two day gun season. They wanted nine days , but the "stakeholders" negotiated it down to two. input on the first proposal did not like the two day, so they backed off that and went with what they really wanted in the first place - full crossbow inclusion. Now you don't like that. Yes, it certainly appears that you and a host of others puts "big bucks" over all else. Now, are you going to answer my questions?
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Post by mattfinney on Apr 8, 2011 9:05:13 GMT -5
Give me some time Woody, I'll see if I can get to them later today.
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Post by trapperdave on Apr 8, 2011 9:12:52 GMT -5
LOL give it up matt, you dont even make sense most of the time. You look a like a fool Bow out now before you remove all doubt A bow is as effective as a gun...it DOES have a shorter effective range....but dead is still dead
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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 8, 2011 9:18:00 GMT -5
Ease up TD...
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Post by trapperdave on Apr 8, 2011 9:20:23 GMT -5
aw shuxxxx
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Post by tickman1961 on Apr 8, 2011 10:12:29 GMT -5
" With the introduction of crossbows, we will be putting more pressure on our buck population during the time when they are most vulnerable, that is, the time of peak seeking and chasing leading up to peak breeding, which normally occurs in early to mid-November. We will do this by drastically increasing the effective range of many hunters, and we will also likely add hunters to the October and early November woods, all of which will result in increased pressure on our buck population."
You may believe this to be true, but I don't. What I do believe you will say anything to convince others you are correct. There are numerous other states with crossbows during archery (years worth of data) and none of what you speak of is a proven fact.
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