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Post by drs on Jul 11, 2010 15:37:11 GMT -5
Drs, I don't know why you let your self get so worked up about this. No offense, but you live and hunt in KY now, so this doesn't even affect you. I think you're right, Rod. I'll stop posting on this thread before someone gets hurt. Just hate to see you guys lose the right to use PCR's in Indiana just because of some wildcat load. <Sorry again>
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Post by Decatur on Jul 11, 2010 16:21:30 GMT -5
I'd just hate to see you blow a vein in your forehead from you getting so ticked! ;d
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Post by oldhoyt on Jul 12, 2010 6:44:21 GMT -5
I've hunted with rifles for over 20 years. I've never shot at a deer over 100 yds away. To me, the real advantage of a scoped rifle is the ability to shoot through a small opening with precision. A "flat" trajectory makes that easier, and velocity is what creates a flat trajectory. I've never bought into the safety argument, and studies have shown that rifles are not more dangerous than the guns we can already use.
This talk of a loop-hole is nonsense. The DNR recognized that wildcat rounds would be developed. They may not have known just how good they could be, but all you have to do is look at the trends in the development of saboted slug ammo, and even muzzleloaders.
I guess I am just a short to medium range hunter. I don't want to shoot a deer at 200 yds. I enjoy slipping up on them and shooting them at 50 yards or less, and I'd really like to do that with my peep-sighted 45/70 or a 30/30.
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Post by schoolmaster on Jul 12, 2010 13:24:03 GMT -5
Things that will ruin deer hunting and/or cause safety issues. Compound bows, handguns, rifle calibered pistols, inline muzzleloaders, smokeless muzzleloaders, pistol calibered rifles, wssm wildcats. Each one in its own place in time was subject to this same type of debate. Safety issues, too far, too flat, too powerful, unfair advantage, etc. Show me where there is a drastic rise in number of people injured or killed by each one of these different types of weapons as they were added to the "able to use" list in a hunting accident.
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Post by M4Madness on Jul 12, 2010 18:27:02 GMT -5
Just hate to see you guys lose the right to use PCR's in Indiana just because of some wildcat load. <Sorry again> If you think for one second that some DNR employees themselves aren't excited to field something like a .358 WSSM for deer , you're only fooling yourself. The DNR knew dang well that wildcats would be developed to "push the envelope", so to speak. I know of DNR employees fielding AR-15 rifles for deer hunting in .458 SOCOM, and I wouldn't doubt that they are the reasoning for wanting to increase the legal case length to 1.8" so that AR-15 rifles in .450 Bushmaster and .50 Beowulf would be allowed as well. Currently, the only "store-bought" caliber legal for Indiana deer huntinq in an AR-15 is the .458 SOCOM. .450 Bushmaster and .50 Beowulf rounds are commercially available, but not legal for deer until they can get the case length increased to 1.8".
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Post by js2397 on Jul 13, 2010 22:40:16 GMT -5
I have already talked to Hornady about making a .358wssm factory load. If they do, they tell me to expect 400fps more from their loads than what we are getting. They have a better powder that individuals can't get, supposedly. Hornady says they will make a factory load for any "MAJOR MANUFACTURE", gun caliber. Problem is, these custom guns aren't factory guns in Hornady's eyes. Ruger has told me that they will wrap a stock around any barrel that a major ammo manufacture makes rounds for. ......It's just a matter of time. Guys get on the phone to these companies and see if we can get something going. I'm sorry to say we will not be making any of the WSM or WSSM cartridges.? ? ? ?Thank you,? ? ? ? Hornady Customer Service PH: 1-800-338-3220FX: 308-382-5761E-Mail: sales@hornady.com ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2010 7:52:50 GMT -5
I'm against gun control in any form or fashion. Any centerfire cartridge would make more sense.
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Post by swilk on Jul 14, 2010 20:29:48 GMT -5
I would like to see Hornady (or any of the other bg mfg's) offer a factory selection of the 358 wssm but I think they would have a very hard time beating current velocities by 400fps.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2010 11:26:07 GMT -5
Could happen.....with proprietary powder that they have that you can't buy yet. Example would be the 30 TC round....as of today, you can't handload it to reach the factory ballistics.
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Post by fullrut on Jul 15, 2010 19:59:12 GMT -5
I just wish ALL Centerfire rifles were legal.
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Post by swilk on Jul 15, 2010 20:27:46 GMT -5
Could happen.....with proprietary powder that they have that you can't buy yet. Example would be the 30 TC round....as of today, you can't handload it to reach the factory ballistics. Would be a nasty round if they could push a 180gr bullet at an honest 3200fps.
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Post by fullrut on Jul 15, 2010 20:42:04 GMT -5
Sorry DRS and company but IT'S COMING!
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Post by tenring on Jul 16, 2010 4:54:00 GMT -5
I just wish ALL Centerfire rifles were legal. In my own certain way, that has an appeal to me also, but look around you. How many deer hunters in this populated state are capable of safely carrying a rifle into deer country, during a time of heavy population of hunters, with subdivisions popping up all over the place, antler worshiping at an all time high, that has a range of three and a half miles. Colorado, with the highest population of Elk in the country has GMU's that are slug gun only for them big critters. Twenty years or more ago, some biologists I was shooing the bull with admitted that there were seven or eight counties where the use of HPR's would be acceptable, but the "how come, why not, it seems to me, and I heard" would come out of the wood work as to why their county was not included. The differences of opinions would be worse than what is going on now.
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Post by mrfixit on Jul 17, 2010 5:24:53 GMT -5
I just wish ALL Centerfire rifles were legal. In my own certain way, that has an appeal to me also, but look around you. How many deer hunters in this populated state are capable of safely carrying a rifle into deer country, during a time of heavy population of hunters, with subdivisions popping up all over the place, antler worshiping at an all time high, that has a range of three and a half miles. Colorado, with the highest population of Elk in the country has GMU's that are slug gun only for them big critters. Twenty years or more ago, some biologists I was shooing the bull with admitted that there were seven or eight counties where the use of HPR's would be acceptable, but the "how come, why not, it seems to me, and I heard" would come out of the wood work as to why their county was not included. The differences of opinions would be worse than what is going on now. In a strange yet peculiar way as these "wildcat" rounds become more powerful and popular it will blow the "omg we are all gonna die if we use center fire rifles" argument completely out of the water.
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Post by dbd870 on Jul 17, 2010 7:01:03 GMT -5
Actually the PA study aready does that, long established beliefs die hard no matter if facts show differently.
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Post by mrfixit on Jul 17, 2010 7:16:12 GMT -5
If they extend the case length to 1.90 inches or whatever it is in the proposed rule changes 3200 fps shouldn't be all that out of reach.
And yes dbd you are correct but like you said some people just just won't let go of ancient beliefs but if things keep progressing with these wildcat rounds they will have no choice but to admit it is no more dangerous with center fire rifles than it is with shotguns. It's not to far out of reach to suppose someday the "wildcats" will be done away with and replaced with standard center fire rounds just to "make it safer".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 7:19:24 GMT -5
You can own and use "any center fire" in Indiana for everything except deer....maybe it's just another way of pleasing the special interest groups?
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 17, 2010 7:32:39 GMT -5
"Safety" has nothing to do with the hunting tool. It is all about the person hold that hunting tool..
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Post by tenring on Jul 17, 2010 7:57:02 GMT -5
Off track big time, nothing wrong with "wildcats". How many of those will go afield this fall out of over 200,000 deer hunters? How many hunters will be afield on opening day with handguns out of over 200,000 deer hunters? How many hunters will be afield on opening day with a PCR out of over 200,000 deer hunters. The guys [or gals] that have the $$$$$ to put one together, buy the custom reloading dies, etc. are not threat to the safety of the other 199,999 other folks out there. They are a dedicated group, who go to great lengths to put together some thing of this order. The ones I'm concerned about are the ones who aren't dedicated rifle men, who never heard about matching the projectile to the twist in the barrel, or the ones who will put a 40 dollar scope from China Mart on a 500 dollar rifle, have someone bore sight it for them, shoot a few rounds on a range [hopefully], and use the rest of the box trying to put down that "trophy" that's out in the middle of a bean field, so they can get their 15 minutes of fame in Deer and Deer Hunting magazine. I have an "old" 700 ADL that has close to two thousand rounds through it [only 5 factory rounds] and as old as I am, will still put all the rounds into less than an inch and I have used it here in southern Indiana. Would I use it in the flat lands of northern Indiana, NOPE!
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Post by dbd870 on Jul 17, 2010 8:12:33 GMT -5
You need to read the PA study.
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