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Post by drs on Jul 10, 2010 7:34:55 GMT -5
Mine are trimmed to 1.62". I'm sure the extra .18" would add a little performance to the round but I'm already getting 2720 out of a 22" barrel and a little more out of my encore barrel. If you are receiving an actual 2,720 FPS out of your 22" barrel then your velocity is in the same neighborhood as my .308 using 150 grain bullets, which is "Illegal" in Indiana unless used in a pistol. Your .358 WSSM case has as much volume (powder capacity) as the .308 or another caliber has. It's just a "Fat" cartridge which happens to be the legal length but a "Loophole" exists by having the volume content the same as an illegal longer cartridge. IF the State of Indiana is going to permit the use of these "Fat" wildcat cartridges the why don't they allow cartridges like the .35 Remington?? It has a lower velocity and uses a .358" bullet, also the .45-70 or even the .450 Marlin. Mark my word that the IDNR will discover this loophole and will mostlikely either close it or allow the use of the other cartridges mentioned above. My $.02 worth.
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Post by dbd870 on Jul 10, 2010 8:23:10 GMT -5
I actually doubt they will - there just aren't enough of them out there that the DNR is going to get very excited abou it, if they start showing up in force then that could change things.
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Post by hornharvester on Jul 10, 2010 8:28:29 GMT -5
Mine are trimmed to 1.62". I'm sure the extra .18" would add a little performance to the round but I'm already getting 2720 out of a 22" barrel and a little more out of my encore barrel. If you are receiving an actual 2,720 FPS out of your 22" barrel then your velocity is in the same neighborhood as my .308 using 150 grain bullets, which is "Illegal" in Indiana unless used in a pistol. Your .358 WSSM case has as much volume (powder capacity) as the .308 or another caliber has. It's just a "Fat" cartridge which happens to be the legal length but a "Loophole" exists by having the volume content the same as an illegal longer cartridge. IF the State of Indiana is going to permit the use of these "Fat" wildcat cartridges the why don't they allow cartridges like the .35 Remington?? It has a lower velocity and uses a .358" bullet, also the .45-70 or even the .450 Marlin. Mark my word that the IDNR will discover this loophole and will mostlikely either close it or allow the use of the other cartridges mentioned above. My $.02 worth. DRS, Give it up buddy...........The IDNR isn't going to make any changes to the PCR law except add length to cartridge now legal, from 1.625 to the proposed 1.8" which will bring in guns like the 460 S&W and .50 Beowulf. Besides center fire hang guns from .243 up to what you can handle have been legal for many years with no ill effects. There is no loop-hole in the current law, the DNR knew there would be wildcats built and said so. h.h.
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Post by Decatur on Jul 10, 2010 8:42:46 GMT -5
![+1](https://www.ingunowners.com/images/smilies/welcome.gif) H.H.!
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Post by drs on Jul 10, 2010 8:47:44 GMT -5
DRS, Give it up buddy...........The IDNR isn't going to make any changes to the PCR law except add length to cartridge now legal, from 1.625 to the proposed 1.8" which will bring in guns like the 460 S&W and .50 Beowulf. Besides center fire hang guns from .243 up to what you can handle have been legal for many years with no ill effects. There is no loop-hole in the current law, the DNR knew there would be wildcats built and said so. h.h. Advice taken, "hh". Anyway I really don't care what they do regarding legal & illegal cartridges used on Deer, up in Indiana. I petitioned the IDNR way back in 1987 in an effort for them to look into legalizing Pistol Cartridges used in long guns. First response from them was "NO WAY"!! Since the use of computers & hunting forms came about many thought the same as me and with everyone pitching in the State approved the use of PCR's in 2007. I just hate to see that law recended due to some "lame brain" causing an accident in a crowded county. So if these WSSM wildcats become regular factory loads I sincerely hope folks will be careful and know their range. They are much more powerful than PCR cartridges like the .44 Magnum. It will only take ONE accident in the wrong place then you'll be back to using Shotgun Slugs for your Deer hunting equipment.
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Post by danf on Jul 10, 2010 9:08:40 GMT -5
Wait, what's that I hear??? I think the sky is falling. ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png)
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Post by M4Madness on Jul 10, 2010 10:15:11 GMT -5
Advice taken, "hh". Anyway I really don't care what they do regarding legal & illegal cartridges used on Deer, up in Indiana. I petitioned the IDNR way back in 1987 in an effort for them to look into legalizing Pistol Cartridges used in long guns. First response from them was "NO WAY"!! Since the use of computers & hunting forms came about many thought the same as me and with everyone pitching in the State approved the use of PCR's in 2007. I just hate to see that law recended due to some "lame brain" causing an accident in a crowded county. So if these WSSM wildcats become regular factory loads I sincerely hope folks will be careful and know their range. They are much more powerful than PCR cartridges like the .44 Magnum. It will only take ONE accident in the wrong place then you'll be back to using Shotgun Slugs for your Deer hunting equipment. By that reasoning, one accidental shooting with a shotgun slug would force us to use bows only. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) The DNR is fully aware of these wildcats -- heck, don't be naive enough to believe that those employed by the DNR are not probably fielding them as well. The DNR has specifically written the law to allow wildcats. The state understands that those using powerful wildcats are not going to be any greater in number than those who currently use "high-powered rifle" calibers in handguns. It's not like everyone and their brother is going that route. Perhaps it appears so considering many on the internet, but not when considering the overall number of deer hunters in Indiana. I cannot see any way for the DNR to rewrite the PCR parameters to allow the .45-70, .450 Marlin, etc. to be legal without allowing rounds they consider "undesireable" to be included as well.
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Post by drs on Jul 10, 2010 11:54:12 GMT -5
By that reasoning, one accidental shooting with a shotgun slug would force us to use bows only. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) The DNR is fully aware of these wildcats -- heck, don't be naive enough to believe that those employed by the DNR are not probably fielding them as well. The DNR has specifically written the law to allow wildcats. The state understands that those using powerful wildcats are not going to be any greater in number than those who currently use "high-powered rifle" calibers in handguns. It's not like everyone and their brother is going that route. Perhaps it appears so considering many on the internet, but not when considering the overall number of deer hunters in Indiana. I cannot see any way for the DNR to rewrite the PCR parameters to allow the .45-70, .450 Marlin, etc. to be legal without allowing rounds they consider "undesireable" to be included as well. BZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz ![:-/](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/undecided.png)
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Post by js2397 on Jul 10, 2010 12:09:49 GMT -5
Advice taken, "hh". Anyway I really don't care what they do regarding legal & illegal cartridges used on Deer, up in Indiana. I petitioned the IDNR way back in 1987 in an effort for them to look into legalizing Pistol Cartridges used in long guns. First response from them was "NO WAY"!! Since the use of computers & hunting forms came about many thought the same as me and with everyone pitching in the State approved the use of PCR's in 2007. I just hate to see that law recended due to some "lame brain" causing an accident in a crowded county. So if these WSSM wildcats become regular factory loads I sincerely hope folks will be careful and know their range. They are much more powerful than PCR cartridges like the .44 Magnum. It will only take ONE accident in the wrong place then you'll be back to using Shotgun Slugs for your Deer hunting equipment. By that reasoning, one accidental shooting with a shotgun slug would force us to use bows only. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) The DNR is fully aware of these wildcats -- heck, don't be naive enough to believe that those employed by the DNR are not probably fielding them as well. The DNR has specifically written the law to allow wildcats. The state understands that those using powerful wildcats are not going to be any greater in number than those who currently use "high-powered rifle" calibers in handguns. It's not like everyone and their brother is going that route. Perhaps it appears so considering many on the internet, but not when considering the overall number of deer hunters in Indiana. I cannot see any way for the DNR to rewrite the PCR parameters to allow the .45-70, .450 Marlin, etc. to be legal without allowing rounds they consider "undesireable" to be included as well. I know how they could do it. They could say any rifle fitting the requirements already established and in addition to those the .45-70, .450 marlin, and .35 whelan and rem.
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Post by fullrut on Jul 10, 2010 12:14:11 GMT -5
I have already talked to Hornady about making a .358wssm factory load. If they do, they tell me to expect 400fps more from their loads than what we are getting. They have a better powder that individuals can't get, supposedly. Hornady says they will make a factory load for any "MAJOR MANUFACTURE", gun caliber. Problem is, these custom guns aren't factory guns in Hornady's eyes.
Ruger has told me that they will wrap a stock around any barrel that a major ammo manufacture makes rounds for. ......It's just a matter of time. Guys get on the phone to these companies and see if we can get something going.
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Post by drs on Jul 10, 2010 13:02:15 GMT -5
I have already talked to Hornady about making a .358wssm factory load. If they do, they tell me to expect 400fps more from their loads than what we are getting. They have a better powder that individuals can't get, supposedly. Hornady says they will make a factory load for any "MAJOR MANUFACTURE", gun caliber. Problem is, these custom guns aren't factory guns in Hornady's eyes. Ruger has told me that they will wrap a stock around any barrel that a major ammo manufacture makes rounds for. ......It's just a matter of time. Guys get on the phone to these companies and see if we can get something going. This will never happen. ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) Just be happy you can now use PCR's instead of shotgun slugs. This thread is getting boring.....zzzzzzzzz ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png)
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Post by Decatur on Jul 10, 2010 13:50:45 GMT -5
lol you don't have to read it! ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by M4Madness on Jul 10, 2010 14:09:16 GMT -5
I cannot see any way for the DNR to rewrite the PCR parameters to allow the .45-70, .450 Marlin, etc. to be legal without allowing rounds they consider "undesireable" to be included as well. I know how they could do it. They could say any rifle fitting the requirements already established and in addition to those the .45-70, .450 marlin, and .35 whelan and rem. Yes, but by naming calibers that fall outside of the parameters, the DNR will literally be swamped with requests of, "Hey, legalize my pet round, too." I'm sure that they are just trying to nip it in the bud. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Don't take that as a sign that I'm against those calibers -- far from it. I'd support legalizing high-powered rifles.
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Post by js2397 on Jul 10, 2010 14:37:19 GMT -5
Easiest thing to do is say.35 or larger and exclude a half dozen cartridges that may not be considered mid range rounds.
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Post by parson on Jul 10, 2010 14:48:11 GMT -5
Ya know, if they allow 1.8", a 35 Rem. wouldn't have to be trimmed a lot to be legal. I don't know how they'd feed in a repeater, but I'd consider a single shot if this happens. I believe that the 35 Rem. case is 1.92".
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Post by danf on Jul 10, 2010 16:48:23 GMT -5
I looked at that today too, parson. You are right, it would need to be trimmed to be legal, but it would still be legal. I don't know how that would affect accuracy by trimming that much though.
A .357 Herret is legal now, as long as it's trimmed to maximum legal length- spec's for it is 1.7", and the question has been posed in the "Ask the CO" forum before anyone asks.
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Post by parson on Jul 10, 2010 17:20:06 GMT -5
I'm thinking that if you had a Handi rifle 357 barrel reamed that might be possible to compensate for the shorter length. I don't really know if you'd have to have a custom reamer, but I don't think that it would be too big of a challenge.
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Post by swilk on Jul 10, 2010 18:40:31 GMT -5
lol you don't have to read it! ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) And Im sure many guys wish he wouldnt.
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Post by fullrut on Jul 10, 2010 21:17:23 GMT -5
Hey DRS. Wanna put a friendly wager on my comment? I bet within a year there is factory ammo for the .358wssm. Match Grade Machine said that they have sold more .358wssm barrels in a shorter amount of time than any other barrel they have ever built. ......ITS JUST A MATTER OF TIME.
I just hope in a year or 2 we can hunt with .338's and every other high powered round available. Bring on ALL centerfire rifles.
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Post by drs on Jul 11, 2010 7:03:39 GMT -5
Hey DRS. Wanna put a friendly wager on my comment? I bet within a year there is factory ammo for the .358wssm. Match Grade Machine said that they have sold more .358wssm barrels in a shorter amount of time than any other barrel they have ever built. ......ITS JUST A MATTER OF TIME. I just hope in a year or 2 we can hunt with .338's and every other high powered round available. Bring on ALL centerfire rifles. This will never happen in Indiana. The State is too highly populated and the calibers you mention are all too long ranged. The State of Indiana's IDNR was ignorant inthat they should have made it more clear that ONLY Traditional PISTOL Cartridges would be allowed as they produce about the same ballistics & range as modern saboted shotgun slugs, only it was cheaper for the Deer hunbter to buy pistol cartridges rather than spending $15 for FIVE shotgun slugs. Some of you guys are really pushing things that may get you into trouble. You know the old saying "Give them an Inch then they'll want a mile" Just be happy you can now use a .44 Magnum PCR as part of your hunting equipment..........A .338 Mag. IN INDIANA? ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) ~STUPID~ ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png)
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