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Post by greghopper on Nov 28, 2021 21:32:47 GMT -5
Really want a season for them. They ain't doing much but eating rabbits and rodents. House cat here or there. Zero effect on deer herd and minimal on turkey Exactly….. The DNR has almost no one asking for a nuisance permit to kill them
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Post by span870 on Nov 28, 2021 21:39:45 GMT -5
They ain't doing much but eating rabbits and rodents. House cat here or there. Zero effect on deer herd and minimal on turkey Exactly….. The DNR has almost no one asking for a nuisance permit to kill them You get it. I don't know why indiana bobcats are so different than cats in any other states. South Carolina, Alabama, Texas all have seasons. All showed zero effect of deer. Heck Georgia tried as hard as they could to prove predation on quail and couldn't even prove it. South Carolina did find some evidence of deer hair in dropping but couldn't prove actual predation and found that in areas where there was a high population of coyotes, which indiana has, it dropped to not even able to prove any cats scavenged deer. Dogs pushed them out and claimed even deer that were scavenged or cats eating on scraps. So what's different about indiana cats.
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Post by span870 on Nov 28, 2021 21:42:53 GMT -5
I think the confidence too many guys have with vertical bows causes more deer to suffer slow deaths than crossbow. 5 or ten shots a year with vertical and we good. Rather them have a crossbow that they set their scope and it's on than not put the effort into a vertical I think we’d both love to know the facts on that subject, but we don’t collect that info unfortunately. Arm chair investigation. Look at post, help me find my deer. How many are vertical and how many crossbow. Vast majority I see are vertical. Your investigation may differ. Again, don't like seeing animals suffer. Rather have the most accurate, deadly weapon being used
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 28, 2021 21:43:52 GMT -5
Good discussion but I’ve seen these before so I will caution folks to be civil and don’t go building straw men to tear down and assigning prejudged beliefs to others. I’ve already seen one mislabeling of a hunting tool to denigrate it. We won’t go there now will we?
Play nice…
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Post by jimbob on Nov 28, 2021 21:51:46 GMT -5
Good discussion but I’ve seen these before so I will caution folks to be civil and don’t go building straw men to tear down and assigning prejudged beliefs to others. I’ve already seen one mislabeling of a hunting tool to denigrate it. We won’t go there now will we? Play nice… Can I blame spell check? Haha I apologize, that was bad form.
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 28, 2021 21:52:21 GMT -5
How did we get here in the first place? Helping insurance claims or balancing forage vs deer numbers? The local governments clearly dont care about forage vs deer, because neighborhoods pay more taxes. Loaded question. VEHICLE INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE NO INFLUENCE ON DEER SEASONS. The only insurance company that has ever asked for deer reduction is CROP insurance companies. The car/deer accident issue was pushed by law enforcement and human injury trends. Spot on… Deer and vehicle collisions are covered under comprehensive. If there are too many deer and vehicle collisions the insurance companies will just raise the comprehensive premiums ON ALL their customers. The insurance companies will NOT absorb the costs.. Now nobody wants to see deer get smacked on a highway for various reason. People are killed every year by these collisions. That was one of the selling points to the DNR on full crossbow inclusion. Kill off more deer before the peak deer and vehicle collision time of the year aka the rut.
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Post by medic22 on Nov 28, 2021 21:55:08 GMT -5
I think we’d both love to know the facts on that subject, but we don’t collect that info unfortunately. Arm chair investigation. Look at post, help me find my deer. How many are vertical and how many crossbow. Vast majority I see are vertical. Your investigation may differ. Again, don't like seeing animals suffer. Rather have the most accurate, deadly weapon being used Vast majority of deer that I find with a pointy stick still in them are shot by crossbows.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Nov 28, 2021 21:58:19 GMT -5
I'd like a bobcat season just so I could hunt a bobcat.
If I only got one wish though, we'd have a 9/1 archery opener for deer. Shoot, maybe even an 8/15 opener for bucks.
Nothing really wrong with our seasons now though.
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Post by freedomhunter on Nov 28, 2021 22:02:17 GMT -5
What we gonna do bout dem dern bobkets too? Really want a season for them. Yes, spelling the name wrong to make us feel like rednecks isnt helping, either. Take a pill, dude.
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Post by tynimiller on Nov 28, 2021 22:04:14 GMT -5
Our DNR doesn’t manage the deer with any intent on growing an older age class of bucks, which is typically the number one reason folks support shortening firearms seasons and/or moving them away from the rut - because firearms seasons quickly account for majority of harvests. So sure if the intent or goal was grow or protect older bucks shortening or moving would be on the table, perhaps APRs and other items…but that is not a factor Indiana managed it’s herd for. It just isn’t. I also push back on the mindset that shortening the firearms season would really influence the “pickiness” of hunters. Majority of deer are killed opening weekend and then thanksgiving weekend due to family time. While the majority of guys on a dedicated forum about deer or the ones in the state that actually read the hunting guide each year may be pickier with more days - I’d still bet the majority of firearm hunters aren’t thinking about days they have left until perhaps the very last weekend which majority are done by then anyways most likely. Ty, agree with everything you said but I do think there are some that trophy hunt with firearm allbeit a minority. To me I would hate to see hunters lose days afield regardless of what season it is. Oh I am not worried because it will never happen. Move the date is a tiny maybe but shorten the days I think is a never will be.
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Post by freedomhunter on Nov 28, 2021 22:07:54 GMT -5
It’s the “confidence” one has with a crossbow that is dangerous, not the weapon. I think the confidence too many guys have with vertical bows causes more deer to suffer slow deaths than crossbow. 5 or ten shots a year with vertical and we good. Rather them have a crossbow that they set their scope and it's on than not put the effort into a vertical 100% wrong imo
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Post by tynimiller on Nov 28, 2021 22:14:53 GMT -5
I think you have to look at the trends… case in point, I went to Cabelas yesterday and I was shocked at the number of cross guns to vertical bows… that clearly shows the demand, and how much difference is there between that and a 870 Remington slug gun (to the uneducated hunter). Folks are going to hunt when they have a target rich environment, plain and simple… when it’s hard is when they give up. What is the balance. I absolutely love this argument. I'd make a deal with anyone that wants crossbow gone from bow. Anyone that bow hunts with a vertical bow must pass a proficiency test before being allowed to hunt with one. Why would you take away a weapon that is inherently way more proficient and accurate. Most of the ones against crossbow are the same posting questions such as where do you think I hit this deer. What kind of blood. Anyone have a tracking dog. And honestly how much difference is there really from a modern compound and a crossbow? I am not saying this to build any kind of argument against crossbows but there is a massive difference between a brand new compound and a modern brand new crossbow. Ease of proficiency is the absolute biggest difference. I can go buy a new Mission or Raven or any of the major companies crossbows, before leaving the shop sight in scope to thirty or forty yards. Half dozen shots and distances closer and farther and I’m hitting the woods with less than an hour total of practice and am capable unless I make a dumb shot choice of harvesting a deer at distances farther than the vast majority of compound hunters (which is sub 30). Distance would be the second thing. I mean a compound archer could shoot a deer at a hundred yards or eighty yards but the 99.99% of bow hunters would never consider such a shot. Yet you have crossbow companies literally declaring their modes come with scopes sighted out to 100 yards or “get your new ‘rifle’ “ The encouraging mindset that crossbows should be shot at sixty, seventy one or even eighty yards is just lunacy IMO. I have one hunting friend who hunts solely with a raven and didn’t think twice that the buck he wounded was because of a bad shot choice but the branch he claims he hit he didn’t see….on the 88 yard shot!!!! Such a fool. Sorry get heated about that mindset. Not the weapons fault though one bit, but the companies are breeding it. However to wrap up response to your question having shot both (pops uses a crossbow) the ease of use and distance with ease are the major two things different between them.
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Post by span870 on Nov 28, 2021 22:16:48 GMT -5
I think the confidence too many guys have with vertical bows causes more deer to suffer slow deaths than crossbow. 5 or ten shots a year with vertical and we good. Rather them have a crossbow that they set their scope and it's on than not put the effort into a vertical 100% wrong imo Are we talking serious deer hunters or weekend warriors? Id bet the vast majority fall under the weekend warriors. You know who I'm referring to. What would you rather them hunting with? I loved bow hunting when I did deer hunt above all else. Thousands of arrows a year. Very few fall under that.
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 29, 2021 8:40:06 GMT -5
At 58 I still use bow, but I can see the day when I will move to a crossbow. I guess that I'm one of those guys that practices very little, maybe shooting a few arrows over summer and once Sept. hits maybe 6 arrows a week. I limit myself to 25 yards and am 100% confident at that range. In 44 years bowhunting I have shot 1 deer over 25 yards and double ringed it. Looking back over career I would say avg. shot distance is 15 yards. (This year's buck was 8 yards). As long as I have the strength and confidence, a bow I will use. I'm with TY that IDNR is not going to make any major changes to firearms season. I figured out a long time ago to buy my own property and manage to my liking, Throw in couple neighbors with similar goals and Shazam watch the bucks grow and population flourish. (Currently we control 450 ish acres and are workimg on buying more adjoining ground. Last 8 years we have produced a 185" NTYP, 175" Typ and a 164" typ. along with several bucks in 150-130 class range off our 3 properties. Next season looks to possibly be our best yet with at least 4 bucks returning that all have potential to be 160-180 class in the 5 and 6 age classes.
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Post by esshup on Nov 29, 2021 9:41:32 GMT -5
I'd love to see the current ML season run concurrent with Archery season.
On another note, firstwd, how do I get a thought for a new regulation to the correct people? I would like to propose a regulation that says if you draw blood you have to count that animal towards your daily/season bag limit.
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 29, 2021 9:47:12 GMT -5
I'd love to see the current ML season run concurrent with Archery season. On another note, firstwd, how do I get a thought for a new regulation to the correct people? I would like to propose a regulation that says if you draw blood you have to count that animal towards your daily/season bag limit. How would that work?? Honor system?? No way to track as most wouldn't report IMO.
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Post by greghopper on Nov 29, 2021 9:47:54 GMT -5
Hunter success rate is already about 50% and the vast majority of hunters only take one deer. So unless you just want less hunters in the field the annual harvest will remain fairly steady. You got a special formula that shows how a 50% success rate or any rate is calculated? Do share.... Not sure how landowner and lifetime hunters are accounted for unless they check-in a Kill! Landowner and lifetime hunter's check-in around 35k last year.
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 29, 2021 9:50:16 GMT -5
Hunter success rate is already about 50% and the vast majority of hunters only take one deer. So unless you just want less hunters in the field the annual harvest will remain fairly steady. You got a special formula that shows how a 50% success rate or any rate is calculated? Do share.... Not sure how landowner and lifetime hunters are accounted for unless they check-in a Kill! Landowner and lifetime hunter's check-in around 35k last year. That’s why he posted “about”. The DNR does a lot of guesstimating
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Post by greghopper on Nov 29, 2021 9:50:40 GMT -5
I'd love to see the current ML season run concurrent with Archery season. On another note, firstwd, how do I get a thought for a new regulation to the correct people? I would like to propose a regulation that says if you draw blood you have to count that animal towards your daily/season bag limit. How would that work?? Honor system?? No way to track as most wouldn't report IMO. Exactly.....no way to enforce that type of law unless someone report themself!
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Post by esshup on Nov 29, 2021 9:52:57 GMT -5
I'd love to see the current ML season run concurrent with Archery season. On another note, firstwd, how do I get a thought for a new regulation to the correct people? I would like to propose a regulation that says if you draw blood you have to count that animal towards your daily/season bag limit. How would that work?? Honor system?? No way to track as most wouldn't report IMO. It would have to be the honor system, but for guided hunts that would be easy, and as much as people love to post stuff on social media I'm sure that many people would either think about posting or think about their shot first. A person posting "I shot a giant and we are going to look for it in the morning" would be easy to check for the DNR if they wanted to follow up on it. There's a guy here in the area that has said he's shot and lost 5 deer this year so far, both with archery equipment and during firearm season. One was a buck in the 160 class and another was one in the 150 class.
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