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Post by boonechaser on Nov 28, 2021 20:35:23 GMT -5
Not for less days afield. (Allows to be more selective for those who hunt mature deer.) End day hunters are becoming fewer and fewer each year. Going too 2 three day weekends will lose more IMO. And I rarely hunt with a gun for record. I think you have to look at the trends… case in point, I went to Cabelas yesterday and I was shocked at the number of cross guns to vertical bows… that clearly shows the demand, and how much difference is there between that and a 870 Remington slug gun (to the uneducated hunter). Folks are going to hunt when they have a target rich environment, plain and simple… when it’s hard is when they give up. What is the balance. So shortening or moving back even later helps who?
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Post by jimbob on Nov 28, 2021 20:39:22 GMT -5
I think you have to look at the trends… case in point, I went to Cabelas yesterday and I was shocked at the number of cross guns to vertical bows… that clearly shows the demand, and how much difference is there between that and a 870 Remington slug gun (to the uneducated hunter). Folks are going to hunt when they have a target rich environment, plain and simple… when it’s hard is when they give up. What is the balance. So shortening or moving back even later helps who? How did we get here in the first place? Helping insurance claims or balancing forage vs deer numbers? The local governments clearly dont care about forage vs deer, because neighborhoods pay more taxes. Loaded question.
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Post by firstwd on Nov 28, 2021 20:43:31 GMT -5
I have been involved with the DNR rules making process for 28 years. The biggest problem with the general public proposals is most truly don't understand the needs beyond their little corner of the world.
In most years, the Indiana firearms season opens after the peak breeding has already wrapped up. Yes bucks are still seeking does, but most are already bred. Honestly, no matter what date opening day of firearms is, it will always be the highest harvest day of the year unless we have the remnants of another hurricane roll through.
Hunter success rate is already about 50% and the vast majority of hunters only take one deer. So unless you just want less hunters in the field the annual harvest will remain fairly steady.
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Post by greghopper on Nov 28, 2021 20:44:46 GMT -5
I think you have to look at the trends… case in point, I went to Cabelas yesterday and I was shocked at the number of cross guns to vertical bows… that clearly shows the demand, and how much difference is there between that and a 870 Remington slug gun (to the uneducated hunter). Folks are going to hunt when they have a target rich environment, plain and simple… when it’s hard is when they give up. What is the balance. So shortening or moving back even later helps who? Differently not the group buying the most tags and paying the bills! ing off the best costumers is never good!
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Post by firstwd on Nov 28, 2021 20:46:32 GMT -5
So shortening or moving back even later helps who? How did we get here in the first place? Helping insurance claims or balancing forage vs deer numbers? The local governments clearly dont care about forage vs deer, because neighborhoods pay more taxes. Loaded question. VEHICLE INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE NO INFLUENCE ON DEER SEASONS. The only insurance company that has ever asked for deer reduction is CROP insurance companies. The car/deer accident issue was pushed by law enforcement and human injury trends.
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 28, 2021 20:48:31 GMT -5
So shortening or moving back even later helps who? How did we get here in the first place? Helping insurance claims or balancing forage vs deer numbers? The local governments clearly dont care about forage vs deer, because neighborhoods pay more taxes. Loaded question. Well fewer insurance claims = lower premiums for consumers, less crop loss means more income for farmers SO shortening or moving firearm season later helps who?? Deer hunting is a recreation/sport but there are some who want to end it altogether. (Antihunters) It's a shame we as hunters are always fighting amongst ourselves.
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Post by tynimiller on Nov 28, 2021 20:56:35 GMT -5
Our DNR doesn’t manage the deer with any intent on growing an older age class of bucks, which is typically the number one reason folks support shortening firearms seasons and/or moving them away from the rut - because firearms seasons quickly account for majority of harvests.
So sure if the intent or goal was grow or protect older bucks shortening or moving would be on the table, perhaps APRs and other items…but that is not a factor Indiana managed it’s herd for. It just isn’t.
I also push back on the mindset that shortening the firearms season would really influence the “pickiness” of hunters. Majority of deer are killed opening weekend and then thanksgiving weekend due to family time. While the majority of guys on a dedicated forum about deer or the ones in the state that actually read the hunting guide each year may be pickier with more days - I’d still bet the majority of firearm hunters aren’t thinking about days they have left until perhaps the very last weekend which majority are done by then anyways most likely.
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Post by titanium700 on Nov 28, 2021 21:00:57 GMT -5
Half the time I don’t even make it to rifle season with a buck tag……and I haven’t shot anything under 130” in years..
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Post by span870 on Nov 28, 2021 21:01:28 GMT -5
Not for less days afield. (Allows to be more selective for those who hunt mature deer.) End day hunters are becoming fewer and fewer each year. Going too 2 three day weekends will lose more IMO. And I rarely hunt with a gun for record. I think you have to look at the trends… case in point, I went to Cabelas yesterday and I was shocked at the number of cross guns to vertical bows… that clearly shows the demand, and how much difference is there between that and a 870 Remington slug gun (to the uneducated hunter). Folks are going to hunt when they have a target rich environment, plain and simple… when it’s hard is when they give up. What is the balance. I absolutely love this argument. I'd make a deal with anyone that wants crossbow gone from bow. Anyone that bow hunts with a vertical bow must pass a proficiency test before being allowed to hunt with one. Why would you take away a weapon that is inherently way more proficient and accurate. Most of the ones against crossbow are the same posting questions such as where do you think I hit this deer. What kind of blood. Anyone have a tracking dog. And honestly how much difference is there really from a modern compound and a crossbow?
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Post by jimbob on Nov 28, 2021 21:01:57 GMT -5
How did we get here in the first place? Helping insurance claims or balancing forage vs deer numbers? The local governments clearly dont care about forage vs deer, because neighborhoods pay more taxes. Loaded question. Well fewer insurance claims = lower premiums for consumers, less crop loss means more income for farmers SO shortening or moving firearm season later helps who?? Deer hunting is a recreation/sport but there are some who want to end it altogether. (Antihunters) It's a shame we as hunters are always fighting amongst ourselves. I feel the bigger issue is more about the decrease in habitat, for the record… and then preserving a resource. Case in point, how much did you hear about leasing 30 years ago? Do you think regulations or access to land have a bigger impact to hunter recruitment? Hunters in Indiana already lost one fight, the next is, at a minimum, finding a balance.
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Post by span870 on Nov 28, 2021 21:04:46 GMT -5
What we gonna do bout dem dern bobkets too?
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 28, 2021 21:08:25 GMT -5
I think you have to look at the trends… case in point, I went to Cabelas yesterday and I was shocked at the number of cross guns to vertical bows… that clearly shows the demand, and how much difference is there between that and a 870 Remington slug gun (to the uneducated hunter). Folks are going to hunt when they have a target rich environment, plain and simple… when it’s hard is when they give up. What is the balance. I absolutely love this argument. I'd make a deal with anyone that wants crossbow gone from bow. Anyone that bow hunts with a vertical bow must pass a proficiency test before being allowed to hunt with one. Why would you take away a weapon that is inherently way more proficient and accurate. Most of the ones against crossbow are the same posting questions such as where do you think I hit this deer. What kind of blood. Anyone have a tracking dog. And honestly how much difference is there really from a modern compound and a crossbow? I'm perfectly fine with crossbows. I imagine at somepoint I'll even buy one. Have no issue with them whatsoever.
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Post by titanium700 on Nov 28, 2021 21:11:53 GMT -5
What we gonna do bout dem dern bobkets too? Really want a season for them.
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 28, 2021 21:12:08 GMT -5
Our DNR doesn’t manage the deer with any intent on growing an older age class of bucks, which is typically the number one reason folks support shortening firearms seasons and/or moving them away from the rut - because firearms seasons quickly account for majority of harvests. So sure if the intent or goal was grow or protect older bucks shortening or moving would be on the table, perhaps APRs and other items…but that is not a factor Indiana managed it’s herd for. It just isn’t. I also push back on the mindset that shortening the firearms season would really influence the “pickiness” of hunters. Majority of deer are killed opening weekend and then thanksgiving weekend due to family time. While the majority of guys on a dedicated forum about deer or the ones in the state that actually read the hunting guide each year may be pickier with more days - I’d still bet the majority of firearm hunters aren’t thinking about days they have left until perhaps the very last weekend which majority are done by then anyways most likely. Ty, agree with everything you said but I do think there are some that trophy hunt with firearm allbeit a minority. To me I would hate to see hunters lose days afield regardless of what season it is.
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 28, 2021 21:13:07 GMT -5
What we gonna do bout dem dern bobkets too? Absolutely
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Post by jimbob on Nov 28, 2021 21:16:19 GMT -5
I think you have to look at the trends… case in point, I went to Cabelas yesterday and I was shocked at the number of cross guns to vertical bows… that clearly shows the demand, and how much difference is there between that and a 870 Remington slug gun (to the uneducated hunter). Folks are going to hunt when they have a target rich environment, plain and simple… when it’s hard is when they give up. What is the balance. I absolutely love this argument. I'd make a deal with anyone that wants crossbow gone from bow. Anyone that bow hunts with a vertical bow must pass a proficiency test before being allowed to hunt with one. Why would you take away a weapon that is inherently way more proficient and accurate. Most of the ones against crossbow are the same posting questions such as where do you think I hit this deer. What kind of blood. Anyone have a tracking dog. And honestly how much difference is there really from a modern compound and a crossbow? It’s the “confidence” one has with a crossbow that is dangerous, not the weapon.
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Post by greghopper on Nov 28, 2021 21:18:48 GMT -5
Our DNR doesn’t manage the deer with any intent on growing an older age class of bucks, which is typically the number one reason folks support shortening firearms seasons and/or moving them away from the rut - because firearms seasons quickly account for majority of harvests. So sure if the intent or goal was grow or protect older bucks shortening or moving would be on the table, perhaps APRs and other items…but that is not a factor Indiana managed it’s herd for. It just isn’t. I also push back on the mindset that shortening the firearms season would really influence the “pickiness” of hunters. Majority of deer are killed opening weekend and then thanksgiving weekend due to family time. While the majority of guys on a dedicated forum about deer or the ones in the state that actually read the hunting guide each year may be pickier with more days - I’d still bet the majority of firearm hunters aren’t thinking about days they have left until perhaps the very last weekend which majority are done by then anyways most likely. To mange for a older class deer herd would require a much larger deer herd which isn’t coming any time soon. Indiana is the SMALLEST land mass west of the Appalachian mountains and crossroads of America
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Post by span870 on Nov 28, 2021 21:23:49 GMT -5
What we gonna do bout dem dern bobkets too? Really want a season for them. They ain't doing much but eating rabbits and rodents. House cat here or there. Zero effect on deer herd and minimal on turkey
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Post by span870 on Nov 28, 2021 21:25:49 GMT -5
I absolutely love this argument. I'd make a deal with anyone that wants crossbow gone from bow. Anyone that bow hunts with a vertical bow must pass a proficiency test before being allowed to hunt with one. Why would you take away a weapon that is inherently way more proficient and accurate. Most of the ones against crossbow are the same posting questions such as where do you think I hit this deer. What kind of blood. Anyone have a tracking dog. And honestly how much difference is there really from a modern compound and a crossbow? It’s the “confidence” one has with a crossbow that is dangerous, not the weapon. I think the confidence too many guys have with vertical bows causes more deer to suffer slow deaths than crossbow. 5 or ten shots a year with vertical and we good. Rather them have a crossbow that they set their scope and it's on than not put the effort into a vertical
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Post by jimbob on Nov 28, 2021 21:32:16 GMT -5
It’s the “confidence” one has with a crossbow that is dangerous, not the weapon. I think the confidence too many guys have with vertical bows causes more deer to suffer slow deaths than crossbow. 5 or ten shots a year with vertical and we good. Rather them have a crossbow that they set their scope and it's on than not put the effort into a vertical I think we’d both love to know the facts on that subject, but we don’t collect that info unfortunately.
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