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Post by sakorifle on May 27, 2016 8:32:10 GMT -5
Face it Baiting is for the people that live in the city come down to Their lease One week Dump a pile of something go back the next wk end kill a deer and go home they don't want to hunt they want to kill something That's all baiting is about !!! It all boils down to what one wants. do you want the anticipation and fun of will i see one will it come to me? or is it I am going out to kill a deer. i make that choice fox shooting i bait troublesome foxes because i MUST kill them as quickly as i can. I dont bait as a matter of course because i enjoy the chase. Never ever tried to bait a roe deer and i never will becuse thats me,i enjoy fair chase if possible, but i am using guns. And chubwub that is very sneaky lol regards Billy
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Post by chubwub on May 27, 2016 8:33:47 GMT -5
Don't see food plots on public either...just sayin Ive seen food plots on public land, planted by DNR The DNR does a great job planting sunflower fields for doves, and corn too!
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Post by chubwub on May 27, 2016 8:38:56 GMT -5
Face it Baiting is for the people that live in the city come down to Their lease One week Dump a pile of something go back the next wk end kill a deer and go home they don't want to hunt they want to kill something That's all baiting is about !!! It all boils down to what one wants. do you want the anticipation and fun of will i see one will it come to me? or is it I am going out to kill a deer. i make that choice fox shooting i bait troublesome foxes because i MUST kill them as quickly as i can. I dont bait as a matter of course because i enjoy the chase. Never ever tried to bait a roe deer and i never will becuse thats me,i enjoy fair chase if possible, but i am using guns. And chubwub that is very sneaky lol regards Billy Lol, it is isn't it? Husband and I have talked about doing this if we ever plant sunflowers down there again. Don't need some mangy deer in my dove kill plot!
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Post by tynimiller on May 27, 2016 8:40:45 GMT -5
You can plant things to perfectly coincide to be at their full peak when you plan to hunt, and fence the area off until you want them to eat it. Why else would my husband and I have selected certain apple and pear cultivars that drop heavily around the month we plan to hunt? Also, what would you call this? This looks highly controlled to me, almost as controlling as a bait feeder with a timer. Not terribly expensive either. I agree that honestly all of it is wildlife manipulation and not management. I did not trim trees for the betterment of the deer herd, I trimmed the trees to create a trail that encourages them to take the path of least resistance right to my stand. Now one can argue that food and water is both management and manipulation. Don't necessarily disagree with you chub. (I don't have solar panels) However, once one pulls that fence down do they control when that bait is there? Or when the beans are present? Do the beans pull back into the ground and only re-emerge from their holes when I am on stand? I am not saying this to make people think baiting and plotting is night and day different...but merely to point out their is one aspect which is and that is the extent you can control when the food is present. I've also seen deer figure out how to jump those setups....so unless you do a staggered approach to it, even that fence may not keep deer out.
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Post by chubwub on May 27, 2016 8:45:51 GMT -5
Well, if you want to, you can always make sure that the gate is open during the day and close it at night. I've seen people rig something up for that purpose for livestock, with timers even. I think when you get to that point, you've pretty well got them trained to go there just like a bait feeder, lol. I guess then they only difference is that you can't replant the beans, but if it's something like clover that will pretty much stay there all year, then I'd say you've got an "au natural" bait station. Plus you only have to lug the bags of seed around once, haha.
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Post by tynimiller on May 27, 2016 8:50:34 GMT -5
Chub, have you hunted both bait piles and plots? Just curious.
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Post by chubwub on May 27, 2016 10:13:51 GMT -5
I'm going to say technically yes, because I don't know what else you could possibly call hunting next to apple trees that are dropping that many apples besides a bait pile. There were so many apples that even the deer couldn't eat them all, well into December.
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Post by sakorifle on May 27, 2016 10:20:14 GMT -5
ok if i shoot a fox over a dead lamb that has died and laid there without my help then that is not shooting over a bait pile. that is taking advantage of a situation, lol? ?? If i had put the dead lamb there then i concede i have shot over a bait pile. There thats just to complicate things even more, so chubwub you have not shot over a man made bait pile have you? lol Billy
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Post by tynimiller on May 27, 2016 10:34:19 GMT -5
I'm going to say technically yes, because I don't know what else you could possibly call hunting next to apple trees that are dropping that many apples besides a bait pile. There were so many apples that even the deer couldn't eat them all, well into December. Okay so no to a brought in bait pile of like corn or such. I never had until I went to Kansas a couple years back. I did one day while there...it changed my entire perspective on it. I was 100% against just because I saw it as cheating or just lazy. That day I hunted it because the bait pile (tree tube kind) was near a creek/ridge crossing which a huge 10 point had used a day prior. It was purely internal once I got in that tree. I cannot hunt over a pile of bait again, just felt artificial and wrong to me. Just me personally though...however I now can say I've done it all ways; plots, bait pile and neither...only 1 to me personally feels artificial and not natural. I think each person is different though and I think even if they made it a law I bet there are guys and gals out there like me that may try it but quickly realize it just isn't "hunting" to them. That is the beauty of it. Hunting has the ability to allow guys/gals to do their "own style" from what buck age/size we want to harvest, style of hunting and so on so forth.
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Post by trapperdave on May 27, 2016 11:10:04 GMT -5
Don't see food plots on public either...just sayin Ive seen food plots on public land, planted by DNR Exactly....by DNR. You can't put a food plot out there
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Post by chubwub on May 27, 2016 11:12:59 GMT -5
ok if i shoot a fox over a dead lamb that has died and laid there without my help then that is not shooting over a bait pile. that is taking advantage of a situation, lol? ?? If i had put the dead lamb there then i concede i have shot over a bait pile. There thats just to complicate things even more, so chubwub you have not shot over a man made bait pile have you? lol Billy Well, apple trees aren't exactly natural are they? Someone had to plant them in that specific spot.
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Post by jjas on May 27, 2016 11:16:50 GMT -5
It never ceases to amaze me how we all have some "cut off" when it comes to deer hunting. It's all fine and good up to that "point" and then all bets are off.
For some it's certain equipment. Trad bows are fine, compounds aren't. Compounds are fine, crossbows aren't. Shotguns are fine during the firearms season but pcrs aren't. Pcrs are fine during the firearms season, but not hprs. Hprs are fine during the firearms season, but not on public ground. Inline muzzleloaders should only be allowed during the firearms season, but not during the muzzleloader season unless the scope is removed.
For others it's season date/length. The youth season shouldn't be allowed before the opener of Archery. Crossbows shouldn't be allowed during the archery season. Crossbows can be used during early archery, but shouldn't be allowed during the month of November. Gun season shouldn't be in November period. The gun season is too long, the muzzleloader season is too long, the late antlerless season shouldn't be held @ all.
We shouldn't shoot does during the late antlerless season because they are pregnant and we are killing fawns, but it's okay to kill fawns when they are 4-6 months old and weigh 60-80 lbs.
It's okay to hunt over food plots and fruit trees, but not over piles of corn or apples. It's okay to use cameras (including "real time" cameras) all year but drones cross the line.
And don't even mention high fence preserves....
The new deer biologist is definitely going to have his hand's full....
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Post by chubwub on May 27, 2016 11:29:34 GMT -5
I just can't find the indignation to get upset about baiting for just about any critter after having the privilege of hunting over sunflower fields for doves and flooded corn for ducks. It's awesome.
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Post by tynimiller on May 27, 2016 11:29:48 GMT -5
jjas, it is a very personal sport, and that is the beauty of it! Boiled down I think the majority of hunters would agree with me when I say "so long as what you are doing is legal I'm never going to tell you that you are wrong." Doesn't mean I necessarily agree or even "support" it, which is a tough concept for some to wrap their head around. That is truly why hunting is unlike ANY activity in my opinion. No two hunters are identical in their preferences or hunting styles or desires. I think the only time I take real issue is when someone fights an opposing opinion and labels it entirely incorrect or inappropriate.
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Post by jjas on May 27, 2016 11:37:04 GMT -5
jjas, it is a very personal sport, and that is the beauty of it! Boiled down I the majority of hunters would agree with me when I say "so long as what you are doing is legal I'm never going to tell you that you are wrong." Doesn't mean I necessarily agree or even "support" it, which is a tough concept for some to wrap their head around. That is truly why hunting is unlike ANY activity in my opinion. No two hunters are identical in their preferences or hunting styles or desires. I think the only time I take real issue is when someone fights an opposing opinion and labels it entirely incorrect or inappropriate. The funny thing is....no matter what...we all tend to think we are "right"...LOL.
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Post by tynimiller on May 27, 2016 11:39:19 GMT -5
And truly for our own perspective we are.
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Post by jackryan on May 27, 2016 11:50:35 GMT -5
People KNOW when they are cheating. It's WHY they want to cheat. They WANT something they don't have that someone else does have, they just don't want to put in the effort or don't have the skills. So, they want to cheat.
If they didn't KNOW it was cheating they wouldn't be irresistibly drawn to justify it and get approval for it from every one they meet.
Cheaters KNOW they are cheaters, they WANT to cheat, they just want you to say "Well that's OK there little cheater." after the fact.
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Post by trapperdave on May 27, 2016 12:10:44 GMT -5
Define cheating..
Is it training wheels on bows? Is it hpr in the deer woods? Is it leasing up hundreds or thousands of acres to displace other hunters? Is it food plots? Is it tree stands? Is it bait piles? Is it piles of bait under an apple tree? Is it using a guide to scout for you? Is it a high fence? Is it electronic range finders? Is it scentlock clothing? Is it expandable broad heads? Is it using urban hunting to bypass the OBR? Is it......well, you get my point...I hope
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Post by chubwub on May 27, 2016 12:29:47 GMT -5
People KNOW when they are cheating. It's WHY they want to cheat. They WANT something they don't have that someone else does have, they just don't want to put in the effort or don't have the skills. So, they want to cheat. If they didn't KNOW it was cheating they wouldn't be irresistibly drawn to justify it and get approval for it from every one they meet. Cheaters KNOW they are cheaters, they WANT to cheat, they just want you to say "Well that's OK there little cheater." after the fact. Aren't you the guy that started a huge discussion on here a while back that said it was perfectly okay to climb up and use other people's tree stands?
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Post by Woody Williams on May 27, 2016 13:02:26 GMT -5
ok if i shoot a fox over a dead lamb that has died and laid there without my help then that is not shooting over a bait pile. that is taking advantage of a situation, lol? ?? If i had put the dead lamb there then i concede i have shot over a bait pile. There thats just to complicate things even more, so chubwub you have not shot over a man made bait pile have you? lol Billy Well, apple trees aren't exactly natural are they? Someone had to plant them in that specific spot. I killed a deer in PA while sitting in an apple tree.. Yes, every time I moved on the limb an apple or three fell. Was I baiting?
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