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Post by throbak on Feb 5, 2014 8:35:15 GMT -5
Many guys see rifles as a way to kill from further distances...... I would be very curious to know the percentage of guys who could hit a 6" circle from 300 yards under hunting conditions using whatever rifle they wanted. It would be pretty low. And compare that to the ones who will be shooting at those ranges regardless I for one am for keeping the cost restrictive and limiting the number of long range weapons out of the woods
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Post by M4Madness on Feb 5, 2014 10:27:47 GMT -5
Heck, muzzleloaders are touted as 300-yard weapons now, and Nikon even sells an Omega scope with a 300-yard BDC reticle. People are going to attempt long shots regardless of what weapon is in their hands. I'd be willing to bet that many Hoosiers attempted 200-yard shots with smoothbore shotguns in the past.
I've only shot at a deer ONE TIME at beyond 75 yards in almost two decades of hunting -- I shot a buck on the Crane base at 147 yards with a shotgun in 2000. Everything else has been sub-75 yards.
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Post by tynimiller on Feb 12, 2014 20:40:33 GMT -5
I am sorry but we've changed enough stuff to go changing more....besides if you cannot get the job done with the immense amount of caliber and platform choices legal here in IN you shouldn't be hunting IMO. There are many hard hitting calibers that are easy on the shoulders...moot argument in my personal opinion.
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Post by dbd870 on Feb 13, 2014 6:47:42 GMT -5
Immense amount, guess we have different definitions. The majority of the common rifle rounds are not allowed. What are you really afraid of?
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Post by featherduster on Feb 13, 2014 8:07:33 GMT -5
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Post by tenring on Feb 13, 2014 8:13:19 GMT -5
Yeah, bring on those Mosin, AK-47, and SKS rifles.
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Post by drs on Feb 13, 2014 10:56:12 GMT -5
Just wondering if anyone thought about taking the 7.62 X 39 m/m and necking it up to .358" and blowing out the case to possibly an improved version? I would think that using this cartridge as a parent for a new wildcat would be ideal and wouldn't require extensive forming any new cases, like the .358 Hoosier. There are a few bolt action rifles available, like CZ's 527 in 7.62 X 39 m/m, that could be re-bored or re-barreled to a .358 caliber and simply taking a 7.62 X 39 m/m case and necking it up to .358". A 150 grain .358 bullet, with proper powder, should yield a velocity of at least 2,300 FPS, in a 22" barrel. Don't think a SKS or AK-47 would be a candidate for such conversion, but a bolt action or single shot rifle should work fine.
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Post by steve46511 on Feb 13, 2014 11:36:39 GMT -5
With still needing a chamber reamer, a rebored or new barrel, and ending up with a case capacity (total) of less than 40 grains, while doable, I would feel its poor return for the money? 150 grain .358 bullets? from where? Might be some but I don't know of any. I had a box of Remington 150s and they are like hens-teeth to find. The 358 Hoosier does not appear to be much work forming brass but..others have more info on that. While working on another wildcat now, it is still my opinion that a shortened 350 Remington magnum is still the least costly and resulting in the best velocities for the money. Problems only involve finding a 350 Rem mag gun and brass (you can make it out of any belted mag brass but involves considerable work). Rifle bought, set back the factory barrel and ream for the 1.8 inch long shortened 350 Rem. Shortened factory dies and a shortened 350 REm form and trim die and you're done. Yes I found a deal on the gun but I had under 700 bucks in the 700 Remington Classic, Finished in the 350JR, including dies. Forming brass was fast and easy. One push though the form and trim die, hack sawed off, filed, trimmed to length. Some needed reamed or turned with a slight donut at neck bottom but hardly tough work, IMO. Not like I needed hundreds of them. LOL With a 20 inch barrel I got chronographed 2550 plus fps with 225 grain and 2750 plus fps with 180 grain........and I tried exactly one powder. 8208 xbr. Done OVER I would shorten the neck compared to the 350 Rem mag only because the less you get down into the body wall brass, the less turning is needed. As is the neck came out longer (gunsmith mess up) than the 350 Rem mag and even then about 1/3 of the brass did not required turning starting with 350 Rem brass. Case capacity matches a 358 Winchester factory case. Half thinking of building another for the "halibut" and adjusting the neck, shoulder just a tad. 9 deer taken so far with the one remaining rifle my buddy has. 2 have made it 30-50 yards after shot. The rest were DRT without spine hits. NOTHING wrong with the 358 Hoosier, not at all. I just liked this combo a bit better and the cost savings of not having to rebarrel. 2 cents. God Bless
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Post by drs on Feb 13, 2014 12:02:37 GMT -5
While working on another wildcat now, it is still my opinion that a shortened 350 Remington magnum is still the least costly and resulting in the best velocities for the money. Problems only involve finding a 350 Rem mag gun and brass (you can make it out of any belted mag brass but involves considerable work). 2 cents. God Bless Kind of like my .458 X 2" AMERICAN rifle; I can shorten my brass to 1.8" without any ballistic changes. Brass, for the .458 X 2", can be made out of any belted magnum cases like .300 or 7 m/m Magnum, etc. If I still lived in Indiana, this would be the rifle I'd use with a 300 grain bullet for whitetails or my Ruger Model 77/44. With full loads, my .458 X 2" sure is hard on ones shoulder especially when you have no recoil pad on the rifle, and using 350 to 400 grain bullets.
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Post by oldhoyt on Feb 13, 2014 14:04:41 GMT -5
Forming 358 Hoosier brass from 358 Win brass is about as easy as it can get. Cut, size, final trim and done.
Some say that forming from 308 brass requires neck reaming. I've made some dummy rounds and they chamber fine. Have not loaded any though. I'd like to hear from anyone that has made 358 hoosier brass from 243. Is there still an issue with neck thickness? Thanks.
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Post by drs on Feb 14, 2014 6:16:20 GMT -5
Forming 358 Hoosier brass from 358 Win brass is about as easy as it can get. Cut, size, final trim and done. Some say that forming from 308 brass requires neck reaming. I've made some dummy rounds and they chamber fine. Have not loaded any though. I'd like to hear from anyone that has made 358 hoosier brass from 243. Is there still an issue with neck thickness? Thanks. For those that are expert reloaders, this would be an easy operation to convert .358, .243, .308 brass, or even .30-06 brass to .358 Hoosier. However not every Shooter/Hunter has this knowledge or equipment, which can be quite expensive or those on a Budget. As for reaming the inside of the case neck, this depends on how heavy and the brand of case on hand. Some brands are heaver than other and would require neck reaming, or pressures could run high even with standard loadings. Also, annealing might be necessary to produce a usable cartridge case.
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Post by oldhoyt on Feb 14, 2014 8:12:27 GMT -5
I'm sure annealing would be necessary when forming 358 Hoosier from 243.
I've loaded some cases formed from 358 Win 3 times with no signs of excessive case wear. Since I have enough 358 brass to lst me a while, I'm not going to mess with trying to use other cases.
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Post by 36fan on Feb 14, 2014 12:36:40 GMT -5
Yeah, bring on those Mosin, AK-47, and SKS rifles. An AK-47 has very similar ballistics to a .30-30.
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Post by tenring on Feb 14, 2014 12:50:28 GMT -5
Accuracy?
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Post by drs on Feb 14, 2014 13:28:47 GMT -5
Ballistics for a .30-30 vs. 7.62 X 39 m/m:
.30-30 muzzle velocity = 2,400 FPS (150 grain bullet) & 2,220 FPS (170 grain bullet)
7.62 X 39 m/m muzzle velocity = 2,400 FPS (123 grain Bullet) & 2,200 FPS (150 grain bullet)
p
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Post by steve46511 on Feb 14, 2014 13:33:00 GMT -5
Lord knows I'm wrong a lot, but my gut feeling on the state ever including a whole group of standard factory RIFLE rounds state wide for deer in Indiana, is "doubtful" at best.
Just a feeling I have based on absolutely nothing other than I just cant see them EVER purposely doing anything that would extend the ranges of what they feel a long gun should be safely used at here.
Playing with the wildcat rounds is fun but not for everyone, I agree. Not using one while waiting for them to change their minds and legalize a 308 or something is a "young man's game" lol.
There hasn't been a year gone by for several years now that I wondered while hunting if that one wouldn't be my last.
Trying to not let that happen but.....arghh.
God Bless
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Post by 36fan on Feb 18, 2014 12:28:18 GMT -5
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Post by tenring on Feb 18, 2014 18:16:37 GMT -5
Both?
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Post by Woody Williams on Mar 13, 2014 10:31:51 GMT -5
There was 479 pieces of input to the DNR on this subject.
Most wanted to legalize more center fires..
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Post by steve46511 on Mar 13, 2014 10:48:14 GMT -5
My heavens. I guess I'm out of the loop. 479? I would have thought the number would be 5 times that in number of those replying. Thanks Woody God Bless Steve
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