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Post by M4Madness on Jan 17, 2014 20:27:28 GMT -5
My opinion is that they boiling a frog... A little at a time... Exactly. We're slowly working towards full inclusion of rifles for deer. Even though the current .358's will kill deer farther than I'd ever venture to shoot, I cannot bring myself to buy one. You know why? Because I don't want to spend a ton of money on some oddball caliber that will have zero resale value if high-powered rifles are ever legalized for deer in Indiana.
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Post by duff on Jan 17, 2014 20:53:22 GMT -5
I know exactly what I mean. Note: I didn't underline or bold print anything in this post of mine. Why does it bother you so much, "swilk"?? If you know exactly what you mean ... would you mind filling me in? If there are more than those 3 criteria I would be interested in knowing ..... The bold and underline thing do not "bother" me in the least .... on the contrary I find it very entertaining and plan on using the technique more myself. Even plan on throwing some italic in there .... LOL LOL that is good stuff for a Friday any night!
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Post by duff on Jan 17, 2014 20:56:57 GMT -5
I guess color doesn't work, or at least I am not skilled in the font modification techniques. Much the same I am balistically challenged.
Give me a muzzle loader or my 44 mag...all I need. Now if they would open up more traditional rifles. I would get one for the heck of it. Not going to get any fancy GI Joe guns or wild cat guns just to shoot a deer. Got other things to spend my $$$ on.
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Post by featherduster on Jan 18, 2014 7:04:46 GMT -5
I guess color doesn't work, or at least I am not skilled in the font modification techniques. Much the same I am balistically challenged. Give me a muzzle loader or my 44 mag...all I need. Now if they would open up more traditional rifles. I would get one for the heck of it. Not going to get any fancy GI Joe guns or wild cat guns just to shoot a deer. Got other things to spend my $$$ on. I am happy just the way things are heck we keep beating this deer herd up we won't need to worry about choice of weapons anyhow. Thanks Duff for causing me to challenge my computer skills, these color tools are cool.
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Post by throbak on Jan 18, 2014 10:05:55 GMT -5
With full inclusion the seasons for guns would be cut dramatically with just the wildcats those added 6000 in 1 year. with full inclusion the harvest would rise so much the seasons would be shortened. I don't want that, leave it as it is
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Post by swilk on Jan 18, 2014 10:40:17 GMT -5
Been a bit since I've studied the numbers....you sure they added 6000? And didn't just move numbers around that would have landed someplace else?
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Post by M4Madness on Jan 18, 2014 14:54:29 GMT -5
With full inclusion the seasons for guns would be cut dramatically with just the wildcats those added 6000 in 1 year. with full inclusion the harvest would rise so much the seasons would be shortened. I don't want that, leave it as it is Firearms harvests are going to remain the same regardless of which firearm everyone is carrying. Any increases or decreases in the firearms harvest are strictly independent of firearm type.
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Post by firstwd on Jan 18, 2014 17:34:53 GMT -5
How did the wildcat rounds add 6000 deer? Maybe 6000 total deer checked as rifle, but I don't know of any listing of caliber.
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Post by holyland on Jan 18, 2014 21:01:49 GMT -5
Indiana Hunting Regulations can be frustrating at times when you want to go hunting with a more common rifle caliber. I want to have the law updated so we can use a broader range of calibers.
Hunting white tail deer all 30 caliber rifles should be legalized in Indiana. These modern 30 caliber cartridges are used nationwide year round for hunting, target practice and other activities. People are limited on how they are able to hunt with the way the law is now; we are not able to use our Grandpa’s old 3030 rifle or any other modern rifle because of the current law. 30 caliber riffles are used in a lot of states for hunting deer and I believe Indiana should allow us to have the same option. I feel it’s a shame that many people who move to Indiana and have more common caliber rifles are forbidden to use them for hunting and can only find themselves with the choice of shots guns or the limited selection listed in the DNR book.
It can cost more than most people have to build a gun around the offered legal calibers. One gentleman said, “My dad has hunted with a shotgun his whole life, and the recoil is getting painful in his older age. I would love to let him borrow my rifle that has much less recoil, because I am not able to afford to buy him a new one that happens to fit inside Indiana’s narrow caliber rules”. Indiana ground isn’t flat like a lot of people say, we have hills which would be backstops for the bullets and people in tree stands don’t fire up in the air and their backstop is the ground. Hunters on the ground position themselves near a deer trail so that they can find a deer in a controlled space so when they shoot they have a backstop so the bullet will be limited on travel and won’t hit anyone. As far as the arguments against using modern cartridges, any bullet is lethal. Any hunter shooting without being certain what is beyond the deer is being reckless. Hunter education covers this safety issues during class, because I know they Iron in to the minds of every student the, "Ten Commandments of Hunting Safety".
My argument for legalizing modern rifle calibers would be:
*Greater accuracy so you will have a cleaner kill. The animal will suffer less, and you will have less wounded deers running away only to have the hunter not retrieve the injured deer and shoot another. The hunter would have more control of his shot placement limiting damage to the deer’s vital organs.
*More people own the more common calibers, so you may have more people take up an interest in hunting, selling more licenses and rifles in Indiana increasing Indiana's revenue.
*Hunters from out of state can hunt here since the rifle's they already own can be used also increasing Indiana's revenue by selling the higher priced out of state licenses.
*Most modern rifle calibers have lower recoil than a shotgun, allowing older hunters to hunt longer. It may also reduce injuries of people falling out of stands due to the heavier recoil knocking them off balance in a tree stand.
Please sign my petition. If you have any suggestions please feel free to comment in the forum’s thread. Thank you.
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Post by M4Madness on Jan 18, 2014 21:40:17 GMT -5
I would support having the same regs for both rifle and handgun -- 1.16"+ case length and .243"+ bullet diameter. .223 is too small in my opinion to be a viable deer round, even if some states do allow it.
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Post by throbak on Jan 19, 2014 12:50:01 GMT -5
How did the wildcat rounds add 6000 deer? Maybe 6000 total deer checked as rifle, but I don't know of any listing of caliber. 11,930 (9) 17,827 (13) these are the numbers from 2011 and 2012 a 1 year jump in rifle imagine if all CF were allowed it was said they are more accurate more available and the range for all ,not some would be extended quite a bit , so IMO the kill would be a lot more in a shorter time period COMMON SENSE TELLS ME THIS
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Post by firstwd on Jan 19, 2014 13:57:50 GMT -5
How did the wildcat rounds add 6000 deer? Maybe 6000 total deer checked as rifle, but I don't know of any listing of caliber. 11,930 (9) 17,827 (13) these are the numbers from 2011 and 2012 a 1 year jump in rifle imagine if all CF were allowed it was said they are more accurate more available and the range for all ,not some would be extended quite a bit , so IMO the kill would be a lot more in a shorter time period COMMON SENSE TELLS ME THIS So all rifle, not the wildcat rounds. That is the same zero-net argument that is used with crossbows. One weapon type goes up, but the overall total sees no significant change. In all honesty, it matters not one bit what is used to kill a deer, the deer is still dead. Now, the addition of certain weapons should increase the success rate (traditionally around 50%), and possibly increase the number of hunters enjoying the sport. I don't see either of those being a problem. Especially at a time that the DNR is openly and specifically trying to lower the overall deer herd. This is the time to get all the possibly methods included so when the DNR is satisfied with herd size they can regulate it through harvest allotments. The weapon used or the season length matters not if limits are set and hunters follow them. This argument falls back the a silly question I ask in my Hunter Ed classes. What will kill you deader, a rifle or a shotgun?
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Post by M4Madness on Jan 19, 2014 15:48:21 GMT -5
How did the wildcat rounds add 6000 deer? Maybe 6000 total deer checked as rifle, but I don't know of any listing of caliber. 11,930 (9) 17,827 (13) these are the numbers from 2011 and 2012 a 1 year jump in rifle imagine if all CF were allowed it was said they are more accurate more available and the range for all ,not some would be extended quite a bit , so IMO the kill would be a lot more in a shorter time period COMMON SENSE TELLS ME THIS If you'll notice, shotgun and muzzleloader kills DROPPED in the same time period. That's because many of them switched to rifles. Rifles did not increase the overall firearms kills at all. Percentage Of Total Harvest:Shotgun: 2008 53% 2009 50% 2010 46% 2011 42% 2012 38% Muzzleloader: 2008 23% 2009 25% 2010 25% 2011 26% 2012 22% Rifle: 2008 1% 2009 2% 2010 7% 2011 9% 2012 13% Overall Long Gun Kills: 2008 77% 2009 77% 2010 78% 2011 77% 2012 73% www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/fw-2012_Deer_Season_Summary.pdf
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Post by throbak on Jan 19, 2014 15:59:32 GMT -5
with that argument it he the goal is to lower the population why do we even have a open season on coyotes If all Center fires were allowed eventually the seasons would be shortened way too many people would be using them thats the problem
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Post by M4Madness on Jan 19, 2014 16:07:10 GMT -5
What does it matter if someone uses a shotgun, muzzleloader, pistol-caliber rifle, or centerfire rifle? You can only shoot one firearm at a time, so the number of deer that you kill isn't going to change. You can shoot one deer with each of the four firearms listed above, or you can shoot all four with a centerfire rifle. At the end of the day, it's still four dead deer.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 19, 2014 16:28:43 GMT -5
11,930 (9) 17,827 (13) these are the numbers from 2011 and 2012 a 1 year jump in rifle imagine if all CF were allowed it was said they are more accurate more available and the range for all ,not some would be extended quite a bit , so IMO the kill would be a lot more in a shorter time period COMMON SENSE TELLS ME THIS If you'll notice, shotgun and muzzleloader kills DROPPED in the same time period. That's because many of them switched to rifles. Rifles did not increase the overall firearms kills at all. Percentage Of Total Harvest:Shotgun: 2008 53% 2009 50% 2010 46% 2011 42% 2012 38% Muzzleloader: 2008 23% 2009 25% 2010 25% 2011 26% 2012 22% Rifle: 2008 1% 2009 2% 2010 7% 2011 9% 2012 13% Overall Long Gun Kills: 2008 77% 2009 77% 2010 78% 2011 77% 2012 73% www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/fw-2012_Deer_Season_Summary.pdf The DNR did not start getting a halfway accurate rifle kill numbers until the third year. "Rifle" was not listed on the check in book the first two years. The check stations were supposed to pencil them in and that didn't happen often. I had to convince my check in station guy the first year that my deer was killed with a rifle and not a shotgun.
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Post by tenring on Jan 19, 2014 17:34:08 GMT -5
Just think of all those Mosin and SKS rifles that might show up on opening morning!
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Post by firstwd on Jan 19, 2014 19:19:23 GMT -5
with that argument it he the goal is to lower the population why do we even have a open season on coyotes If all Center fires were allowed eventually the seasons would be shortened way too many people would be using them thats the problem OK..... you have a problem with people using a tool that is traditionally more accurate, more user friendly, and provide quick humane kills to the magnificent animals we all love? Well, to each their own. But, if we are to use tools that are most difficult in every aspect in order to preserve the population, we should all be using an atl atl(sp). As for coyotes. Yes they take a tole on deer numbers, but they eat far more throughout the year than deer. If you think grain farmers complain about deer eating their crops, just imagine how loud the sheep and goat farmers would scream if coyote populations grew and they were killing livestock on a regular basis again. Plus you have to remember all those suburban cats and little dogs that would become the mainstay on the dinner plate. Again I say, the State's biologists are not nearly as mentally challenged as the average deer hunter likes to think they are.
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Post by M4Madness on Jan 19, 2014 19:59:47 GMT -5
The DNR did not start getting a halfway accurate rifle kill numbers until the third year. "Rifle" was not listed on the check in book the first two years. The check stations were supposed to pencil them in and that didn't happen often. I had to convince my check in station guy the first year that my deer was killed with a rifle and not a shotgun. Agreed. A true reflection of the first two years that rifles were allowed would show lower percentages for shotguns and higher percentages for rifles. And we all know that the overall firearms harvest percentages for those two years would still remain unchanged regardless of what firearm was used.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 19, 2014 20:55:57 GMT -5
The DNR did not start getting a halfway accurate rifle kill numbers until the third year. "Rifle" was not listed on the check in book the first two years. The check stations were supposed to pencil them in and that didn't happen often. I had to convince my check in station guy the first year that my deer was killed with a rifle and not a shotgun. Agreed. A true reflection of the first two years that rifles were allowed would show lower percentages for shotguns and higher percentages for rifles. And we all know that the overall firearms harvest percentages for those two years would still remain unchanged regardless of what firearm was used. Very true... I do think we picked up new firearm hunters in women and kids
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