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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 5, 2011 20:52:45 GMT -5
I don't see that. Any 4.5 that doesn't score in the 140's is some sort of freak or broke off. We call any buck over 2.5 a mature buck, and stop protecting them at that point. The guys that will kill the 2.5's and 3.5's leave the 4.5's and older for the die hard trophy guys.. Most hunters I see are fairly happy with a deer in the 140's and 150's. I understand your point I will show you my Freak from this year he was 4.5 years old and 22# FD officially and I let the air out of him as he was the first on the scene and it was Wed .after gun opener .No I was not desperate at all but in the 3 years this buck frequented or lived most of that time on our farm after moving in at 1.5 years old to our farm that Oct .He remained very reclusive and would only show himself at the most in-opportune times . He has 4 stunted points on the right side and always has and a long Double yet connected spike on the other . The buck that would show up the next day was the 170 class 12 point with a single kicker on the right side . Lost opportunity for me ?? I would say yes! Because I did the right thing and took out this monstrous freak the next day while overlooking the same filed I had the buck I been after for 2 years walk in to 30 yards wide open and stand looking at does for 5 min. Disappointment don't explain my feeling .That BTW is not the only large mature or quickly approaching maturity deer on the place poor genes . But we have top notch there as well I will post both pics here the one my freak. and on the next the 150 in 10 point from the next farm by neighbor I had his buck that he shot at 50 yards trailing a doe just the day before he killed it .Another lost opportunity Yes . Greed has nothing to do with my feelings about the OBR .Management and desire have the ability to do the right thing and still have a crack at one of my dream bucks has everything to do with why I want the TBR back now . Attachments:
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Post by swilk on Dec 5, 2011 20:55:51 GMT -5
How would a two buck limit....one with archery and one with gun....help what happened to you?
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 5, 2011 21:02:00 GMT -5
And the buck my neighbor took that I had at 50 yards no buck tag and let walk .I will save the pics of the 170 till I or if I take him next year who knows maybe!! BTW the neighbor is 6 " 6' 350 lb man that paw he has on the antler is likely a full 5-6 inches wide lol just for a size reference Attachments:
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 5, 2011 21:03:05 GMT -5
How would a two buck limit....one with archery and one with gun....help what happened to you? I would of been back at it with a bow and would have the option of still taking the larger of the bucks!Not to mention the number of 125-140 class deer I passed in bow season waiting on the big ones.You see I hunt with all weapons so how it would of helped is very clear
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Post by lugnutz on Dec 5, 2011 22:01:02 GMT -5
So much emphasis on not killing two bucks a year because its greedy, but yet folks can kill 208 button bucks a year legally, and folks are completely fine with that. I just don't get it.
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Post by boman on Dec 5, 2011 22:03:38 GMT -5
What gives you the real "opportunity" to kill a mature buck is the increasing number of deer hunters that are dissatisfied with killing a yearling buck and wait for something bigger. That was happening WAY before the OBR was even thought of. I'm aware of all that and have always been in the "same camp". we put an "8pt" rule on the camp in 1979 and only allowed muzzleloaders so the guys would have to think real hard about that "one shot". no one hunted with a bow. your statement does not apply in my present case---there are seven guys hunting the farm I hunt and 3 are "double dippers" all three killed immature (2 1/2yr)urban bucks this year and two killed a second buck. one was a 4 1/2 yr old or older but he got lucky(by his own admission) the other one was a yearling. the other 3 hunters are "brown and downers". Ive seen these guys have a doe come thru with her fawns and shoot all three or at least attempt it.
This is my real situation----Sooo----I pose the question: would you favor a two buck rule if it were your situation?
by the way I've only killed one yearling buck, way back when, that I know of but there was a time when I might have killed more.
Steve
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 5, 2011 22:17:49 GMT -5
YIP! been there done that 30 or so years ago and am no worse for the wear!
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Post by boman on Dec 5, 2011 22:55:01 GMT -5
One other thought here and I know for a fact that antler size and configuration is irrelevant to age and maturity .And most hunters think by letting all the bucks live to 4.5 years old is some magic number where they all grow giant record class antlers! And that simply is not the case in natural selection. Most will never achieve 140 inches even at 4.5 years old it takes the right combination of genetics and food to do that .Numbers don't mean much when it comes to antler size . When a deer reaches full body growth here he will weigh 200# or more Field dressed before the rut more than likely 1.5 - 2.5 year olds will not be close to that size and 3.5 will bounce around that but rarely make it that big . Its much like live stock years and body growth go hand in hand they can always be smaller bodied for many reasons .But to reach body weights over 200 FD for real not guessed weights takes years .There have been 2.5 year old bucks killed here with 170-190 inch antlers the Downing buck 194 inches was only 2.5 years old and was 16 points anda huge main frame 10. It was aged by a state biologist on the spot when checked in and offically weighed in at 172# FD in Oct. The rack weighed almost 10 # great information and no doubt real observations. I have found that age is much easier to get within two years if I know real weights also. Steve
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Post by boman on Dec 5, 2011 23:08:53 GMT -5
I don't see that. Any 4.5 that doesn't score in the 140's is some sort of freak or broke off. We call any buck over 2.5 a mature buck, and stop protecting them at that point. The guys that will kill the 2.5's and 3.5's leave the 4.5's and older for the die hard trophy guys.. Most hunters I see are fairly happy with a deer in the 140's and 150's. spot on---If I can change some thinking I will have the same opportunity. maybe more so! Steve
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Post by Carphunter on Dec 6, 2011 12:05:01 GMT -5
The DNR trying to convince the general public that the OBR is having a major effect on big buck harvests is just a joke. I've never see the DNR try to convince anyone of the sort. The OBR ONLY affected the bowhunters that were killing a buck with their bow, then in turn killing one with a gun. I'm sure that was a small number. It is a trend throughout the hunting community to pass on immature bucks. People watch all these videos and hunting shows and want to shoot deer like they see these hunting "celebrities" shoot. It certainly wouldn't hurt to allow 1 buck with a bow and 1 with a gun. I agree..Well, I have sat in meetings with DNR officials in Indianapolis where they consistently say the OBR has had a major effect on big buck sightings based on reports that they recieve from hunters. (How they get these reports, they weren't real clear on). I have also worked part-time at a State Park and have had the opportunity to discuss this sort of thing with many DNR personnel as they have visited the park, and they all say the same thing.
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Post by Carphunter on Dec 6, 2011 12:14:35 GMT -5
It certainly wouldn't hurt to allow 1 buck with a bow and 1 with a gun. depends on ones values,where one hunts and who hunts around you---wouldn't hurt what? In my case allowing two bucks certainly has hurt my ability to kill a mature buck(reached full body growth potential) which biologically is 4 1/2 yrs old. Steve My point is that you can't continue to slaughter the antlerless deer at a rate of 8:1 and expect the herd to not be out of whack. I know in the main county that I hunt I can shoot 8 antlerless deer for every buck. I see more bucks now than does. I would like to see a law passed that protected the younger bucks, be it by antler restrictions, or something else. Again, as I stated before, the OBR only affects the bowhunters who were killing a buck with their bow, then in turn killing a buck with their gun. How many people were actually doing that? Thinking that the OBR has made a major impact on big buck sightings is ridiculous. The regulations are incomplete. A 2 buck rule with antler restrictions would have much more affect than a one buck rule that still allows hunters to shoot 1/2 racked spike bucks. Everybody is focusing on the number of bucks they can shoot, when we should be focusing on the age of the bucks that get shot.....IMO.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 6, 2011 12:28:45 GMT -5
Well, I have sat in meetings with DNR officials in Indianapolis where they consistently say the OBR has had a major effect on big buck sightings based on reports that they recieve from hunters. (How they get these reports, they weren't real clear on). I have also worked part-time at a State Park and have had the opportunity to discuss this sort of thing with many DNR personnel as they have visited the park, and they all say the same thing. Been to a few meeting too and I've never heard that. Have you got any minutes posted anywhere where that was discussed? DNR deer biologists (past and present) have said they can draw no conclusion as to the effect of the OBR. The present deer biologist has said that the number of double dippers prior to the OBR was "not significant." He has said that the jury is still out on the OBR. No doubt some in the DNR are hearing from hunters that they are seeing more bigger bucks and those same hunters attribute that to the OBR...doesn't make it so though. Personally I'll take the scientific word of a deer biologist over anyone else in the DNR. Especially when the others are basing their opinions on anecdotal evidence of deer hunters.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 6, 2011 12:33:33 GMT -5
It certainly wouldn't hurt to allow 1 buck with a bow and 1 with a gun. depends on ones values,where one hunts and who hunts around you---wouldn't hurt what? In my case allowing two bucks certainly has hurt my ability to kill a mature buck(reached full body growth potential) which biologically is 4 1/2 yrs old. Steve My point is that you can't continue to slaughter the antlerless deer at a rate of 8:1 and expect the herd to not be out of whack. I know in the main county that I hunt I can shoot 8 antlerless deer for every buck. I see more bucks now than does. I would like to see a law passed that protected the younger bucks, be it by antler restrictions, or something else. Again, as I stated before, the OBR only affects the bowhunters who were killing a buck with their bow, then in turn killing a buck with their gun. How many people were actually doing that? Thinking that the OBR has made a major impact on big buck sightings is ridiculous. The regulations are incomplete. A 2 buck rule with antler restrictions would have much more affect than a one buck rule that still allows hunters to shoot 1/2 racked spike bucks. Everybody is focusing on the number of bucks they can shoot, when we should be focusing on the age of the bucks that get shot.....IMO. Agree... last count we could kill over 450 antlerless deer statewide (if we have the time, money and places to hunt in each county) and still only one buck statewide. Some of the biggest proponents of the OBR are the ones moaning about lack of antlerless deer.. 450 to 1.... I wonder why? )
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Post by cambygsp on Dec 6, 2011 13:21:06 GMT -5
So, tell 250000+ deer hunters that they can only kill half of the bucks they used to be allowed to...........AND OUR BOONE AND CROCKET BUCKS GO FROM 14 TO 30 IN TEN YEARS ? That sure dont sound like success to me !
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Post by greghopper on Dec 6, 2011 14:09:24 GMT -5
So we are now Killing half the Bucks we use to kill per year??? lol
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Post by cambygsp on Dec 6, 2011 14:19:50 GMT -5
So we are now Killing half the Bucks we use to kill per year??? lol No I think the numbers show we are killing more buck deer than ever before..........how can that be when you tell 250000+ deer hunters they can only kill half the bucks they used to?
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Post by boonechaser on Dec 6, 2011 14:53:47 GMT -5
More hunter's are killing more buck's today. 20 year's ago had very few friend's that deer hunted. Now most do, kid's do, some of their wive's do. See less deer overall compared to 20 year's ago, but am seeing more and bigger buck's. Also think the entry's for HRBP/BC are skewed as alot of hunter's don't enter their deer in either. I personaaly have 3 that would make HRBP that I hav'nt entered and 2 P & Y. (In last 10 year's) Don't think I will ever enter another deer in any record book unless it is a B and C and I might not even then. I hunt for my satisfaction and not for my name in a book.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 6, 2011 16:04:42 GMT -5
So we are now Killing half the Bucks we use to kill per year??? lol No I think the numbers show we are killing more buck deer than ever before..........how can that be when you tell 250000+ deer hunters they can only kill half the bucks they used to? False statement.... You can now only kill 1 less buck then before not "half".You can still kill multiple Bucks though other channels if you really need 2 or more bucks per year!!!!!
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 6, 2011 16:56:08 GMT -5
No I think the numbers show we are killing more buck deer than ever before..........how can that be when you tell 250000+ deer hunters they can only kill half the bucks they used to? False statement.... You can now only kill 1 less buck then before not "half".You can still kill multiple Bucks though other channels if you really need 2 or more bucks per year!!!!! You sir need to realize that the vast majority of hunters will never have the other means or avenues to take more than one buck a year .So IMHO you can stop throwing that BS around just like the others who throw that crap around .You act as if most hunters have a choice in this matter that we have ways around it they are all either drawn hunts or Permission only in urban area hunts and that is very rare. sorry your cup is loosing water just like your argument is in this case.
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Post by Carphunter on Dec 6, 2011 17:34:16 GMT -5
Well, I have sat in meetings with DNR officials in Indianapolis where they consistently say the OBR has had a major effect on big buck sightings based on reports that they recieve from hunters. (How they get these reports, they weren't real clear on). I have also worked part-time at a State Park and have had the opportunity to discuss this sort of thing with many DNR personnel as they have visited the park, and they all say the same thing. Been to a few meeting too and I've never heard that. Have you got any minutes posted anywhere where that was discussed? DNR deer biologists (past and present) have said they can draw no conclusion as to the effect of the OBR. The present deer biologist has said that the number of double dippers prior to the OBR was "not significant." He has said that the jury is still out on the OBR. No doubt some in the DNR are hearing from hunters that they are seeing more bigger bucks and those same hunters attribute that to the OBR...doesn't make it so though. Personally I'll take the scientific word of a deer biologist over anyone else in the DNR. Especially when the others are basing their opinions on anecdotal evidence of deer hunters. Well, I don't have any minutes from some of these meetings, but I know what was said by some of these officials, and not the biologists. I would most certainly agree with what the biologists are saying over what these politically minded folks that work for the DNR are saying. My take on it was that they were trying to justify that by passing the OBR, they have effectively increased the age structure of the bucks within the deer herd, which I think is a joke. Weren't some people saying that they were seeing more bigger bucks the first year the OBR was in effect? lol. I agree 100% with you Woody BTW.
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