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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 13, 2011 19:07:32 GMT -5
If they killed 9 does on opening day between twwo hunters, seems that the population can well stand some reduction. Liberal doe limits aren't for everyone to kill the max, only those that need to to manage their land. There's no way possible to kill every doe with any limit, no matter what that limit is these days. There may well have been more deer in the 80's, but the health of the herd was not what it is now. Check the increase in age structure, and the harvest figures and record book deer production, see what was better, now or then. I was going to stay out of this little fray !! But you have said repeatedly that "NO WAY" could you kill all the does here or there or whatever .Time for a history lesson .We as hunters did exactly that here in Indiana over about 100 to 75 years of hunting by our earliest settlers .and get this not only did we make Whitetail deer extinct here we destroyed every other big game species here as well. Remember we were restocked and restarted mid last century after the last deer died prior to the turn of the century here . And they did it all with a hell of a lot less hunters and people and with almost exclusively black powder guns .Sorry But I will fly the Big BS flag on we can not possibly shoot up all the does in this state or a given area . With today's weapons and huge bag limits it is possible and in some heavily hunted low deer population counties.Depletion of deer herds is a real possibility in spots within or areas of those low deer number county's . Especially if lots hunters get too trigger happy to do just that in urban or low density areas of counties especially central Indiana counties with lots of crop fields and small woodlots. some of you guys need to travel much further away from those lush huge tracts of wooded hills and swampy land of southern IN some time and try some hunting the low density areas .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2011 19:15:05 GMT -5
You ever heard of markey hunting??? Doesn't exsisit anymore. History will not repeat itself. Hard hunted does, can and will get as hard to see and kill as will bucks. Won't happen.
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 13, 2011 19:18:08 GMT -5
You ever heard of markey hunting??? Doesn't exsisit anymore. History will not repeat itself. Hard hunted does, can and will get as hard to see and kill as will bucks. Won't happen. Yes but it is what it is and market hunting by the small number of market hunters that were here is nothing compaired to what could happen with todays weapons if a large group of hunters decides to fill all thier tags in any given area . That hard hunted does thing is funny considering most of Indiana prior to the turn of the century was vastly forested compaired to todays vast openness and small woodlots and creeklines.And they destroyed a herd of very hard hunted does and bucks didnt they . Never say history wont repeat its self because it always does with a few modifications.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 13, 2011 19:24:00 GMT -5
If they killed 9 does on opening day between twwo hunters, seems that the population can well stand some reduction. Liberal doe limits aren't for everyone to kill the max, only those that need to to manage their land. There's no way possible to kill every doe with any limit, no matter what that limit is these days. There may well have been more deer in the 80's, but the health of the herd was not what it is now. Check the increase in age structure, and the harvest figures and record book deer production, see what was better, now or then. I was going to stay out of this little fray !! But yoy have said repeatedly that "NO WAY" could you kill all the does here or there or whatever .Time for a history lesson .We as people did exactly that here in Indiana over about 100 to 75 years of hunting by pour erliest settlers .and get this not only did we make Whitetail deer extinct here we destroyed every other big game speicies here as well. Remember we were restockedand restarted mid last century after the last deer died prior to the turn of the century here . And they did it all with a hell of a lot less hunters and people and with almost exclusively blackpowder guns .Sorry But I will fly the Big BS flag on we can not possibly shoot up all the does in this state or a given area . With todays weapons and huge bag limits it is possible and in some heavily hunted low deer poulation counties a real possiblity in spots within or areas of those countys if hunters get too trigger happy to do just that . They killed them no limit, 24/7 and 365 days a year too. Lot of the game was killed just for the hide too. No way can modern hunters hunting under the laws and limits we have today kill them all...no way. With that said it is up to the deer hunters to manage their own property. The DNR just give you the parameters to do it. I don't kill does on my 40 acre patch as there are ton of people around me that do, including nuisance deer permits. EHD puts a hurt on a deer herd much stronger and quicker than any hunting. We had an episode a few years back and I went to the stand 13 times and never saw a deer. Didn't see much sign and very few tracks. Today you cant tell we ever had any EHD at anytime. Deer are VERY resilient.
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Post by boonechaser on Dec 13, 2011 19:38:51 GMT -5
If you have read my post's I said I was ok with where the population is currently. I'm more worried about the future and wonder what will become of it over the next 15 to 20 year's. I don't believe we will wipe them out completely. But there are area's I used to hunt here in southern Indiana that i won't waste my time hunting any more as there are very few deer to hunt. I have yet to see the DNR lower a county quota??? You know of any? Started with 2 then 4 now 8. HERD IS GROWING, kill more antlerless. BS ,the state want's more money and to top it off our governer raid's the sportsman's money to spend on other crap.
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Post by gobblerstopper on Dec 13, 2011 19:56:18 GMT -5
Warrick county was a 4 at one time and an "A" a couple of years later. They are adjusted. Maybe not as accurately as they should be, but nobody here is qualified to know how they need adjusted either.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 13, 2011 20:47:41 GMT -5
If you have read my post's I said I was ok with where the population is currently. I'm more worried about the future and wonder what will become of it over the next 15 to 20 year's. I don't believe we will wipe them out completely. But there are area's I used to hunt here in southern Indiana that i won't waste my time hunting any more as there are very few deer to hunt. I have yet to see the DNR lower a county quota??? You know of any? Started with 2 then 4 now 8. HERD IS GROWING, kill more antlerless. BS ,the state want's more money and to top it off our governer raid's the sportsman's money to spend on other crap. Not true... www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5446.htm#fundingThere is money that goes from the general fund to the Natural Resources Department in various funds at various Divisions such as Wildlife or Enforcement. None of the Natural Resource Divisons is self-sustaining.
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Post by Carphunter on Dec 14, 2011 7:16:20 GMT -5
Slaughtering is generally a word used by antihunters. When a hunter uses it, it tells me that hunter knows very little about modern deer management. Really. That's funny. Someone doesn't agree with you so you call them an anti-hunter. I'll post a portion of the definition of slaughter - "The killing of great numbers of people or animals". I would say if someone has the opportunity to shoot over 400 antlerless deer, then they have the opportunity to slaughter them. Now, I've read enough of your posts to know that I've forgotten more about deer management then you have ever learned. Better do some serious reading up before discussing deer management with me.
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Post by Carphunter on Dec 14, 2011 7:21:41 GMT -5
If you have read my post's I said I was ok with where the population is currently. I'm more worried about the future and wonder what will become of it over the next 15 to 20 year's. I don't believe we will wipe them out completely. But there are area's I used to hunt here in southern Indiana that i won't waste my time hunting any more as there are very few deer to hunt. I have yet to see the DNR lower a county quota??? You know of any? Started with 2 then 4 now 8. HERD IS GROWING, kill more antlerless. BS ,the state want's more money and to top it off our governer raid's the sportsman's money to spend on other crap. Not true... www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5446.htm#fundingThere is money that goes from the general fund to the Natural Resources Department in various funds at various Divisions such as Wildlife or Enforcement. None of the Natural Resource Divisons is self-sustaining. Believeing everything the government, or the DNR feeds you is hilarious. You've never worked for State or Federal government, have you? I have ..........and do.
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Post by Carphunter on Dec 14, 2011 7:33:16 GMT -5
The good 'ol day are way behind us. I've talked to a lot of older guys who say that in the 70's and 80's, they were lucky if they saw three deer all season -- and that it was probably the same deer each time. ;D There are thousands more deer roaming the woods today than back then. I began hunting in the mid 90's, and I can say that I'm seeing way more deer now than I did back at that time. Way more. Is that because there are more deer, or because I'm a better hunter now? Who knows? I've killed an average of 4 deer a year since I started hunting. Some years I passed up around 20 different bucks while waiting on a large one. I got right at a dozen different bucks on camera this past September on one small farm with no crops for miles. On a 40-acre wooded property, I had a group of 15 deer come in one morning during early archery season. Last year in the same tree, I had close to 30 come by before I shot my buck at 9:45 AM. What I'm getting at is that some areas hold huge numbers of deer while others harbor next to none. The state has taken the only approach that it really can -- micro-managing antlerless deer by county. There's no feasible way to go to any smaller level. I firmly believe that we have the high numbers of bonus antlerless quotas simply in preparation for the late season firearms antlerless season that was proposed for counties with a "4" or higher. My county has always fluctuated between a "2" and "3", and was never a "4" until there was mention of the Christmas-week firearms hunt. Compare this year's antlerless quota map with maps from the last few years, and you'll see. The majority of the state is now at "4" or greater. Well, I started hunting this state in 1983, and the good 'ol days were the late 80's and early 90's where I hunt.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 14, 2011 8:25:27 GMT -5
Not true... www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/5446.htm#fundingThere is money that goes from the general fund to the Natural Resources Department in various funds at various Divisions such as Wildlife or Enforcement. None of the Natural Resource Divisons is self-sustaining. Believeing everything the government, or the DNR feeds you is hilarious. You've never worked for State or Federal government, have you? I have ..........and do. Then offer up proof where - "......and to top it off our governer raid's the sportsman's money to spend on other crap. "
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 10:21:12 GMT -5
I'd like to see stats of all the guys that are killing 400+ does a year? Post it up, with your fast knowledge of deer management, I'm sure you have it readily available?
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Post by boonechaser on Dec 14, 2011 10:50:10 GMT -5
Windfall's & General fund revision's 2011 "In the last fiscal year alone the Daniel's administration has made more than 1.1 million in revision's." "Spending approved by the Indiana General assembly but returned to state coffer's." Included in those revision's were Department of Natural Resource's. Note: Revision's is a word more commonly referred to as "CUT'S". To me a cut is another mean's of taking away??? Source Indiana.Gov
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Post by Carphunter on Dec 14, 2011 13:04:07 GMT -5
I'd like to see stats of all the guys that are killing 400+ does a year? Post it up, with your fast knowledge of deer management, I'm sure you have it readily available? I just love how people try to manipulate what other people post. Where did I say people were shooting 400+ does a year? The OPPORTUNITY is there to kill 400+ antlerless deer a year. I would say I would spell it out for you, but I just did. Any knowledge is better than no knowledge, btw.
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Post by Carphunter on Dec 14, 2011 13:15:19 GMT -5
Believeing everything the government, or the DNR feeds you is hilarious. You've never worked for State or Federal government, have you? I have ..........and do. Then offer up proof where - "......and to top it off our governer raid's the sportsman's money to spend on other crap. " You got me, I can't offer up proof. .........just as you can't offer proof that it doesn't happen. You really think that because you post a link to a DNR website, that makes it fact? I have witnessed the misappropriation of funds by the federal government in more ways than I care to mention. The red tape involved to prove this, and financial effort it would take to follow through, is much more than an individual like myself could ever bear. Keep believing everything your told by the DNR. I'll make my judgements off of what I see, not what someone tries to get me to believe.
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 14, 2011 17:02:48 GMT -5
I have a question then as I have seen all this thrown back and forth with the word Slaughtered being used!! At what number to you guys does the killing of game in this case deer go from taking ,harvesting ,or just plain old killing to slaughtered???
I mean we all in our mind need to have or should have a personal I have had enough limit or is enough for anyone limit ?? So what is it ?? K Lets see them numbers guys instead of throwing innuendo and insults . Its a simple question? With 400 plus deer being available at what number is it no longer acceptable to you that a hunter crosses your imaginary you kill too many deer limit.?
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Post by M4Madness on Dec 14, 2011 17:51:44 GMT -5
With 400 plus deer being available at what number is it no longer acceptable to you that a hunter crosses your imaginary you kill too many deer limit.? I'll be the first to jump right in. ;D I feel that as long as every deer is killed and tagged legally, as well as utilized and not thrown in a ditch to rot, that hunters should be allowed to kill up to the bag limits that the state sets.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2011 17:57:32 GMT -5
Would you consider Kentucky, (which ranks very high in most catagorys in the management scheme) be considered better or worse management than Indiana?
Check out what the antlerless limit is in KY in Zone 1 counties, which is about half of the state, and mostly all of the western half.
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 14, 2011 18:14:48 GMT -5
And since I asked the question I will post the answer I feel in my gut as right for my outlook... Only what will be used and that means consumed by the shooter and his immediate family in one year .I am not in agreement about shooting some deer for others not in your house hold you may as well allow party hunting if your shooting for others!!!
Nor shooting deer for this or that food bank if you give deer to feed the hungry they could of done more with the money you spent hunting and killing a deer. Deer IMHO are not a consumption grown farm animal they are a game animal and should remain such . if the land owner you hunt on wants one then that's one from your limit not from his!!!
So there are 365 days a year and if you eat 1 pound of deer a day that's 365 pound of meat !! if you have a large family that's a couple of pounds a day and that's give take 700 # .But lets be real here that's maybe 6-8 deer a year for 365 pounds unless your hung up on shooting yearlings all the time. Not one single family eats deer meat every day that would be a lie most don't eat it but 2 -3 times a week lets be real hear . I think there should be a hunter limit state wide of 8 deer and IMHO that's about 2 or 3 too many for most hunters who eat it.
Its my opinion as you all have one .There are too many hunters hiding their blood lust behind state or county limits and too many deer being dumped in side ditches and creeks and fields here for my liking .I know where 6 deer are laying 2 heads cut off the others were antler less and shot and tagged ALL had rear leg tendons on one leg cut to remove the tags!All this in just a 3 mile stretch of my county roads! Its pizzzs me off and its happening all over the state.The state sanctions this action indirectly with its ridiculous state wide deer harvest limits.
I'm all about "Fair yet ethical opportunity " and if a hunter wants to shoot his buck or bucks and a doe per seasonal weapon that's fine but its all about the money IMHO with the DNR and state deer limits now . but this is just stupid and gives wanton waste a new meaning here .I mean how the hell do you set a number and manage something you have no idea how many you have per county or even state wide ?? Think about it guys.
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 14, 2011 18:18:57 GMT -5
Would you consider Kentucky, (which ranks very high in most catagorys in the management scheme) be considered better or worse management than Indiana? Check out what the antlerless limit is in KY in Zone 1 counties, which is about half of the state, and mostly all of the western half. Worse in numbers of deer kill per hunter and in general than Indiana with more hunters in the field every year ,year in year out than Indiana . Also we can not compair the two states in size deer numbers , season lengths or breakdown, weapons used , and even the zone break down preclude that compairison its apples to oranges and not worth argument.
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