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Post by huxbux on Feb 28, 2008 20:42:49 GMT -5
According to whose criteria?
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Post by mrfixit on Feb 28, 2008 20:45:23 GMT -5
Many people go out of state just for the pure enjoyment of hunting, not necessarily to bag a "trophy" buck.
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Post by firstwd on Feb 28, 2008 21:40:54 GMT -5
I go to Kentucky to hunt the October ML season. One weekend and it's over. If I was after huge antlers I would hunt 5 miles down the road with a bow on public ground that has had guns outlawed because of the not so thoughtful guys shooting HPR's along the highway.
I do believe the "industry" has made people's thinking a little out of whack. If these trophy shows would spend some real time explaining the complete management concept the viewers would understand the need for doe control.
As for Indiana trying to grow "big bucks". For that to happen there would need to be a limit put on button buck harvest. With anterless harvest opportunities so high and no limit on button bucks, the buck population is getting cut down before they have the chance to "grow another year".
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Post by indianahick on Feb 29, 2008 12:22:17 GMT -5
Public land set up correctly? How? You can only shoot one buck there no matter what weapon you are using. The public land that I hunt does not allow the use of bonus tags. In other words NO DOES during firearms season. Quality deer management is Not raising deer for large antlers.
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Post by bschwein on Mar 3, 2008 13:25:18 GMT -5
I would like to see them shorten the season as well. But, only for antlered deer. They can keep the 32 days worth of firearms and muzzleloaders but only for Antelrless deer. Besides, thats the majority of the kill anyways right? ;D
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Post by freedomhunter on Mar 3, 2008 13:48:49 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see how many hunters would participate in antlerless hunting firearms. I would say most hunters are out there for a buck around the rut and wouldn't hunt. Sounds like a good alternative for the hunters that still want to be out there for some meat.
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Post by indianahick on Mar 3, 2008 16:25:21 GMT -5
I would be. Actually I spend more time hunting does than bucks. But then again I am not an antler worshiper. I have complained more than once about the person in charge of Fairbanks not allowing bonus doe tags during firearms or Ml. Evidently he feels that there are two many bucks and not enough does in that area.
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Post by RoadKill on Mar 3, 2008 16:54:31 GMT -5
I would like to see them shorten the season as well. But, only for antlered deer. They can keep the 32 days worth of firearms and muzzleloaders but only for Antelrless deer. Besides, thats the majority of the kill anyways right? ;D It sounds like you would like to reduce the number of bucks killed? That's real simple, just make bucks legal by ground hunting only, no elevated hunting positions for bucks. I think that would reduce the number of bucks killed.
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Post by freedomhunter on Mar 3, 2008 20:13:58 GMT -5
Terms like "antler worshipper" and ideas like "hunt bucks from the ground" aren't going to make for intelligent arguments when it counts.
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Post by js2397 on Mar 4, 2008 7:39:20 GMT -5
What if we made it five days to kill a buck with a bow and the rest antlerless how many people would hunt. No one is better than anyone because of the way the choose to take a deer. There is always talk about taking something from gun hunters but never from bow hunters.
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Post by huxbux on Mar 4, 2008 9:40:41 GMT -5
How about we have a complete moratorium on buck hunting for lets say.... 3 years? That should be plenty of time to allow them to grow big racks and be "worth" shooting. That will keep the big buck hunters from stinking up my woods for awhile and ruining my hunting too......... Problem solved!
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Post by indianahick on Mar 4, 2008 10:57:50 GMT -5
What if we made it five days to kill a buck with a bow and the rest antlerless how many people would hunt. No one is better than anyone because of the way the choose to take a deer. There is always talk about taking something from gun hunters but never from bow hunters. I would. Best thing that I have ever seen in Indiana deer hunting was the implementation of bonus does in the early 90's. First year I got 2 does, 0 bucks. Loved it. Still do. With the totals for this year roughly 1100 deer less than the two previous years there is absolutely no reason to mess with the deer seasons at all.
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Post by bschwein on Mar 4, 2008 11:20:31 GMT -5
I would like to see them shorten the season as well. But, only for antlered deer. They can keep the 32 days worth of firearms and muzzleloaders but only for Antelrless deer. Besides, thats the majority of the kill anyways right? ;D That's real simple, just make bucks legal by ground hunting only, no elevated hunting positions for bucks. I think that would reduce the number of bucks killed. Or Not. I'd just like to see them shorten the overal firearms season. Well then, you have people who question whether or not enough deer are killed. Thats when I say leave the antlerless season open. I'd be happy to have a shorten season for a few years if that will really benefit the age structure of the bucks in the state.
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Post by bschwein on Mar 4, 2008 11:22:45 GMT -5
What if we made it five days to kill a buck with a bow and the rest antlerless how many people would hunt. No one is better than anyone because of the way the choose to take a deer. There is always talk about taking something from gun hunters but never from bow hunters. The problem with gun hunters are, there killing the majority of the bucks. Bow numbers do not compare. I'm just looking for a different method to increase the age structure of the bucks in this state, other than the OBR.
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Post by firstwd on Mar 4, 2008 13:45:46 GMT -5
Then the next step would be to put a minimum rack size in the mix. Kentucky has this on quota hunts on state areas. I guess we could be real creative like we are with Bass Fishing and put a slot limit in place. That way we can eliminate the "limited genetic" animals and the older animals, leaving the huge healthy ones to do all the breeding.
With the wide range of habitat this state ha to offer, there is not going to be one simple answer to "growing big antlers". That means the State can not accomplish this. If that is the goal, the only way to get it done effectively is to isolate areas with the genetics and habitat with strict antler growth management tactics. The State needs to worry about the health, size, and control of the deer herd across the entire state and stop allowing private groups to have control of the management plan.
I do not know the numbers, but I would think that gun hunters kill the majority of all the deer simply because there are more of the in the field. Proportionately, do gun hunters kill more antlered deer than archery hunter or muzzle loader hunters?
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Post by dbd870 on Mar 4, 2008 14:13:33 GMT -5
He shoots.......he scores!
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Post by js2397 on Mar 4, 2008 14:22:23 GMT -5
If the state wants to put a management plan in on state ground that may be an option. My family owns land and we try to manage it to our standards and sometimes we hunt all 32 days of firearms season and never kill a buck so I don't want someone to tell me that we can't hunt because they can't kill a big buck. There are 140"+ deer everywhere on both private and public land in Indiana and anyone can kill one if the work at it. Just look at the pictures at the local sporting goods shops or the trail cam or harvest pics on the web.There is no need to limit someone else because you don't want to put in the work.
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Post by freedomhunter on Mar 4, 2008 15:13:27 GMT -5
I would be careful with "hard work" posts. I think there are more than a few hard workers that go years without killing a buck in Indiana waiting for something in the 140 range, and it has nothing to do with lack of effort or skill.
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Post by js2397 on Mar 4, 2008 15:21:28 GMT -5
I did not say you could kill one every year but with enough time in the field anyone can have a chance.
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Post by jkd on Mar 4, 2008 15:27:21 GMT -5
I agree with firstwd on the hunting shows presenting an unrealistic view of what a "typical" buck is, and in pushing the idea that everyone should have 140+ deer running around everywhere...
As was stated, IDNR's mission has nothing to do with producing trophy bucks per se... keeping the herd population in control is job one, followed closely by maintain proper health and age structure.
Those arguing for a shorter season to in turn produce larger bucks or fewer button bucks killed or greater age shift are missing the point... short season = reduced hunter selectivity. That is a fact born out by studies specifically on this issue.
When DAC was still meeting, I requested harvest stats on a day-by-day basis for firearms season to determine two things... one was the effect of marginal/poor weather on harvest, and the other was to measure the difference between weekend hunting and weekday hunting. As of about 5 or so years ago, those stats have been compiled.
With these figures, it should be possible to measure hunter selectivity and trends related to the proportion of bucks versus does taken early in the season compared with later on... IMO, the first weekend hunters are still comprised of a high percentage who are going to take the first deer they see, whereas those taking deer after that first weekend are likely the more selective hunters looking either for a specific buck or mature doe.
Shortening the season is simply going to put more pressure on more hunters to take deer as soon as possible, spikes, buttons or whatever... the age structure of the herd has been getting older under the current system, in part due to increasing hunter maturity (Woody's Theorem), OBR, or a combination of the two (Kirk's Corollary)....
In other words, I think our current system has a pretty good balance of factors, and I have yet to see a coherent, fact-based rational for shortening firearms season...
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