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Post by oldhoyt on Feb 27, 2008 12:41:32 GMT -5
32 days is a good start if you ask me. Many guys only hunt weekends, and a good number of them don't hunt Sunday.
That whittles it down considerably.
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Feb 27, 2008 13:15:02 GMT -5
We as hunters need to take the blinders off and look at hunting in general instead of our own agendas. Less and less youth are taking up this sport and that someday will bite us in the azz. As we decline in numbers are we going to have enough strength as a group to defeat anti-hunting legislation in the future? We need to add more opportunity to get hunters into the woods instead of trying to limit hunting to our favorite weapon. I'm an all season hunter and would like to see crossbows added to early archery season and an early primitive muzzle loader season in Oct. By this I mean cap, ball, conical and black powder, scopes with zero magnification and no modern in-lines. With the OBR what makes the difference what weapon you take your buck with? The future of hunting is in our hands and if we don't start creating more opportunity to get more youth involved, the heritage of hunting like we know it today will be history. h.h. YEAH! What hh said.
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Post by Harley on Feb 27, 2008 15:39:55 GMT -5
Well said HH!!!
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Post by lugnutz on Feb 27, 2008 18:15:27 GMT -5
And my point is that firearm season is in the rut, of course more bucks will be killed during that season. I don't care if we put in a month of HP rifle season during December, more bucks will still be killed in November.
You also pointed out that people are lumping in muzzy in with the firearm season. And i'm pointing out muzzys are a firearm just as capapble as any shotgun.
You also pointed out that some people need more than 2 3/4 ounce shot to bring down a deer.
And yes i feel ive mature as a hunter to the point of where if i need more than one shot to kill a deer, either i shouldn't be shooting at it and/or i need more practice. I feel i respect the deer enough to attempt a clean kill.
Also with 32 days of firearms, i don't see the need to fill all my tags asap. Fill them all today, means no hunting tomorrow.
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Post by racktracker on Feb 27, 2008 19:55:18 GMT -5
And yes i feel ive mature as a hunter to the point of where if i need more than one shot to kill a deer, either i shouldn't be shooting at it and/or i need more practice. I feel i respect the deer enough to attempt a clean kill. Wow! You're good. Never a miss or a wound? I'll bet if we did a poll on who hasn't missed or wounded a deer with their first shot I'll bet you would be in a minority. Maybe you should turn Pro? Wait a minute. Even the Pros miss. I saw Michael Waddel do it.
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Post by lugnutz on Feb 27, 2008 20:39:39 GMT -5
And yes i feel ive mature as a hunter to the point of where if i need more than one shot to kill a deer, either i shouldn't be shooting at it and/or i need more practice. I feel i respect the deer enough to attempt a clean kill. Wow! You're good. Never a miss or a wound? I'll bet if we did a poll on who hasn't missed or wounded a deer with their first shot I'll bet you would be in a minority. Maybe you should turn Pro? Wait a minute. Even the Pros miss. I saw Michael Waddel do it. I don't recall ever saying that i never miss, what i said was You won't see the "Pros" missing a deer or wounding a deer with a firearm. More/less needing to pound the deer with needless shots after shots. I'm sorry but i honestly feel if i cant make a clean kill with one shot, then i won't shoot. Plain and simple. I couldn't have said that 4-5 years ago. I used to use every slug that my gun would hold, my thought was "if its running, i'm shootin" i didn't realize at the time how reckless i was being . Heck their were years i picked up my shotgun out of the closet and went hunting without practicing with it at all, figured since it was "on" the prior year it should still be on. I was to say the least ignorant. I used to be the kinda hunter, that shot the first buck i seen then griped cause i didn't see any big deer. And with the help of this site, and with time i feel i'be matured as a hunter, and have better respect of the game that i'm hunted.
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Post by jkd on Feb 28, 2008 1:19:18 GMT -5
First, let me respond to Lug on the question of firearm = muzzy... A couple of seasons back, I had a group of three does come across a field towards the woods I was in hunting from the ground last evening of muzzy season... when they got about 30 yards from the woods edge, the lead doe slowed to a walk, and I took her with my .54 TC Hawken... one of the other does ran about 15 yards and turned back to look at the downed doe... MY POINT: put a PCR or my scoped Mossberg in my hands with that same scenario in "firearms" season, and that second doe is D...O...W...N... Now let's get down to cases... a "firearm" under Indiana deer hunting regs for a "firearms license" is defined as a shotgun, handgun, rifle with pistol cartridges, muzzleloading long gun or muzzleloading pistol... on the other hand, for a "muzzleloader license", only a muzzleloading long gun or muzzy pistol is legal... So, a muzzleloader is always a "firearm", but a "firearm" is not always a "muzzleloader"... NOW WHY IS THAT... Because originally, the separate muzzy season was intended as a TRADITIONAL PRIMITIVE WEAPONS season, and the sidelock rifles available back in the day were not and are not the equivalent of multi-round shotguns or pistols (or for today, PCR's), and the reason has nothing to do with range, as my good ol' TC .54 can sling 435gr maxi's just as far as my Mossberg could throw pumpkins (remember we're comparing "back in the day" rounds...), and so, it was THE NUMBER OF POTENTIAL ROUNDS AVAILABLE that differentiated these two seasons back then.... when my beard wasn't grey or gray or white or whatever... So now let me put a different twist on where we are today for those who want to lump 16 days of "firearms" and 16 days of "muzzleloader" and call it 32 days of "firearms" hunting.... Let's do just that and modify the regs to accomplish that... 32 DAYS OF SHOTGUNS, PISTOLS, PCR'S, AND MUZZLELOADING RIFLES/PISTOLS....!!!!! If people want to argue that TODAY these "firearms" are the same in terms of their ability to harvest deer, then by all means, let's make the regs reflect that...!!!! Or.... perhaps we should recognize that, given a challenge by someone to engage in a gunfight at 50 yards in an open field, where my weapons of choice are a knife, a muzzleloading rifle or my Marlin 1894CB .44 mag rifle, I'm going to pick the 1894 all day long... So the choice is clear... either make the distinction between "firearms" and "muzzloader" as being TWO DIFFERENT classes of hunting weapons, and thus stop saying "32" when counting season days... or LUMP THEM TOGETHER into one 32 day season... If we did the latter, I think realistically, you would see a 10-15% increase in the antlerless harvest due to that second shot option... Food for thought, guys...
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 28, 2008 7:42:05 GMT -5
Thanks JKD..
That is the point I was trying and trying to get across to Lugnutz. This is ALL about an unfair tactic being used by the folks that want to shorten the "firearm season".
You did it so much better than I did.
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Post by racktracker on Feb 28, 2008 8:26:11 GMT -5
LN,
Sure everyone tries to make one shot kills. That is our goal, but I've hunted long enough (maybe not as long as you) to know that chit happens and we sometimes miss or wound an animal with the first shot.
Yes, "Pros" miss too. We wont always see them on the DVDs or TV, but they do miss. Like I said Waddel is one that actually put his miss on the tube. He even laughed at himself for missing.
Questions for you.
Do you deer hunt with a slug gun?
If so, how many shells are in it when you hunt deer?
BTW - 99 times out of a 100 I do not "need" that anchor shot, but for the 1 time it is good insurance.
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Post by freedomhunter on Feb 28, 2008 9:37:51 GMT -5
Lost in the generality "infighting and loss of opportunity is going to be the end of us all" is the fact that shorter firearms seasons just might help to make some of us better hunters, and maybe even new bowhunters for that matter. I don't buy the "anti" argument. At least in my best areas (that have high deer numbers and in turn high hunting pressure), the OBR is producing more bucks for the 32 day firearms hunter to kill, basically. The result is there are just more 2 and 3 year old bucks getting killed before they reach maturity (when before the OBR it was mainly 1.5year olds). Moving the firearms later and shortening the season is pretty much the only way to keep this from happening, as the Ohio, Illinois, and Iowa DNR would readily explain. Obviously, this doesn't apply to low pressure (usually low deer density) areas which are putting out more mature bucks with the OBR.
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Post by hornharvester on Feb 28, 2008 11:41:27 GMT -5
Lost in the generality "infighting and loss of opportunity is going to be the end of us all" is the fact that shorter firearms seasons just might help to make some of us better hunters, and maybe even new bowhunters for that matter. I don't buy the "anti" argument. At least in my best areas (that have high deer numbers and in turn high hunting pressure), the OBR is producing more bucks for the 32 day firearms hunter to kill, basically. The result is there are just more 2 and 3 year old bucks getting killed before they reach maturity (when before the OBR it was mainly 1.5year olds). Moving the firearms later and shortening the season is pretty much the only way to keep this from happening, as the Ohio, Illinois, and Iowa DNR would readily explain. Obviously, this doesn't apply to low pressure (usually low deer density) areas which are putting out more mature bucks with the OBR. Like I said "some people need to take off their blinders and take a look at hunting in general instead of their own little agendas". Any time you take away opportunity to hunt its not good for the sport of hunting. Lost opportunity is just that, lost opportunity. Some day you younger hunters will regret trying to limit other hunters to your weapon of choice. Don't believe it, just ask the bear and cat hunters in some of the states that lost their whole seasons because lack of support from hunters divided on hunting styles. h.h.
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Post by goonegoosey on Feb 28, 2008 15:05:39 GMT -5
This is just what they want! Hunters auguing with other hunters. If you were to move Muz. season up you all know what would happe, right? We would see everybody and their brother going out to buy a new muzzleloader.
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Post by js2397 on Feb 28, 2008 15:15:23 GMT -5
What would be wrong with everybody and their brother going and buying a muzzleloader. There is strength in numbers so the more people hunting the better off we are. Personally I wish evry person in this state hunted.
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Post by freedomhunter on Feb 28, 2008 15:27:37 GMT -5
I think the old school "don't be too picky for antlers" (as my late grandfather used to say) mentality is going by the wayside. The up-and-coming young hunters I know are a new kind of hunter that wants a quality herd to hunt. I think most of them are going to be mainly bowhunters in the long run.
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Post by danf on Feb 28, 2008 16:12:57 GMT -5
I think the old school "don't be too picky for antlers" (as my late grandfather used to say) mentality is going by the wayside. The up-and-coming young hunters I know are a new kind of hunter that wants a quality herd to hunt. I think most of them are going to be mainly bowhunters in the long run. So why limit what *I* want to shoot, and how I want to shoot it??? If they want a "quality" herd to hunt, they can be selective on what they shoot themselves. If they are smart, they will realize that killing does is part of the equation. Gee, when are the most does killed, percentage-wise during any of the seasons....? Your argument of "shortening the season might make better hunters" holds ABSOLUTELY NO WATER. We, as a society, have less and less free time. Limit the amount of time most hunters can spend in the woods, and I think many will simply just give it up. Others will go even moreso blindly into the woods and shoot the first thing they see. What does that do for your selectivity? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The only b*tch I've got with pretty much anything the DNR does at the moment is the license structure. Short of changing that, leave everything else alone. I'm not one that was fortunate (or smart) enough to buy a lifetime license while they were still available. If the DNR wants more people hunting, and more deer killed, they need to change the way licenses are sold. Period. Deer hunting never was, and never should be about antlers. If you want to make it that way for yourself, fine. Just don't push it on me. I'm starting to see why some of you get so ticked off about the OBR...... I'll leave it at that, 'lest this turn into an OBR session. Turkey season needs to get here soon, this off-season deer debate gets old and goes nowhere!
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Post by whiteoak on Feb 28, 2008 16:28:22 GMT -5
Golly... I don't care how many days it adds up to.. I just LOVE TO HUNT. When I started deer hunting in the early 1960's, I was taught that deer hunting was an "AMERICAN TRADITION" and to "PASS IT ON TO THE YOUNGER GENERATION" and what is happening now?? Other hunters are wanting to convince the "POWERS THAT BE" to surrender our TRADITION and RIGHT TO HUNT HOPING it will create a few more MONSTER BUCKS... In my humble, worthless opinion, I wish others would leave well enough alone and IF the hunter wants to shoot a trophy buck... do so... If they want to shoot a doe... DO SO but once we give ANYTHING UP... IT WILL BE GONE.. Not meant to be offensive to anyone... I for one enjoy deer hunting and if they had a season for rock-throwing at deer, I would be out there during that season as well.. (If the state could make a few bucks doing that... that might...) Bud EXCELLENT post Bud that I wish others would heed!!!
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 28, 2008 17:42:56 GMT -5
..............I'm starting to see why some of you get so ticked off about the OBR...... I'll leave it at that, 'lest this turn into an OBR session. Because some of us knew that the OBR would not be the end of it.
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Post by goonegoosey on Feb 28, 2008 17:52:04 GMT -5
My statement about everyone going out and buying a muzzleloader was only to prove a point. You would end up seing the number of bucks compared to does skyrocket if Mz. season was moved up front....
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Post by huxbux on Feb 28, 2008 19:38:15 GMT -5
Lost in the generality "infighting and loss of opportunity is going to be the end of us all" is the fact that shorter firearms seasons just might help to make some of us better hunters, and maybe even new bowhunters for that matter. I don't buy the "anti" argument. At least in my best areas (that have high deer numbers and in turn high hunting pressure), the OBR is producing more bucks for the 32 day firearms hunter to kill, basically. The result is there are just more 2 and 3 year old bucks getting killed before they reach maturity (when before the OBR it was mainly 1.5year olds). Moving the firearms later and shortening the season is pretty much the only way to keep this from happening, as the Ohio, Illinois, and Iowa DNR would readily explain. Obviously, this doesn't apply to low pressure (usually low deer density) areas which are putting out more mature bucks with the OBR. The IDNR is not in the business of "producing" anyone's idea of a "trophy" buck, they're in the business of maintaining a deer population at a level consistent with ecological, social, and economic values of the people of Indiana. I for one, am grateful for that, as attempting to "produce" "trophy" bucks would only further limit my hunting opportunities. If you want a really short season, with a really high probability of taking a "trophy", why not just go to a high-fence operation where they do indeed "produce" "trophy" bucks?
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Post by freedomhunter on Feb 28, 2008 20:09:43 GMT -5
Yes, I've heard more than one landowner that hunts say "if I really wanted to be able to hunt the mature bucks I've worked so hard to have a chance at on my property I would put up a high fence". These are the same guys that spend their retirement on the best ground they can find in Indiana and give up on it and go out of state. Or, how bout the guy that spends what little money he has to go to Iowa on a draw and hunt PUBLIC GROUND. These guys are just as noble as every little man and could be hunting public in Indiana if it was set up right.
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