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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 15:34:13 GMT -5
ok ... make me build a real arrow .... hold on.
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 15:44:56 GMT -5
ok.
Easton Redline arrow 22" long with a 75gr head. bowtech Equalizer 35lbs at 26"
total arrow weight of around 220grains ..... about 230fps.
25ftlb of KE.
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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 11, 2007 15:50:35 GMT -5
ok. Easton Redline arrow 22" long with a 75gr head. bowtech Equalizer 35lbs at 26" total arrow weight of around 220grains ..... about 230fps. 25ftlb of KE. You had to go to a 5 inch overdraw to get that 220 grain weight? Is that a carbon or aluminum arrow?
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 15:56:53 GMT -5
no overdraw at all.
I shoot a 27.5" draw length and have a 1/2" string loop. My arrows are 26" without any type of overdraw. I could go even shorter if I wanted but I run into spine problems.
Those redlines are like 6 grains an inch. If you make them 24" you are only gaining 12grains.
Lets be clear ... all I am doing is running numbers through a calculator. I have never shot anything like that.
However, the calculator I am using has been within a few grains of actual arrow weights (as verified by a scales) and actual bow speeds (as verified with a chrono).
The only reason I choose the redline arrows is because they fit the spine needed. It isnt hard to get a 5 or 6 grains per inch arrow. There are many, many of them out there.
5gpi times 24 inches is 120 grains. Add a 75 grain broadhead and you are at 195gr. 3 blazer veins at 5gr each is 210 insert, nock, glue .... another 15 grains.
total is 225.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Apr 11, 2007 16:06:18 GMT -5
Yeah, but what about my lead filler weights....
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 16:18:57 GMT -5
You could get as heavy as you want ..... but it would be difficult to get a correctly spined arrow with a draw that low and a length that short.
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Post by JohnSmiles on Apr 11, 2007 16:54:24 GMT -5
OK, I shoot a Hoyt at 105 lbs draw weight. 28"(3" overdraw) 2514 straight fletched arrows at 425 gr. I have 180 gr field tips and broad heads. 605 gr total at 250 fps which translates to 170mph. 84 ft/lbs energy. Not that anyone cares, but I simply got caught up in the wonderful world of arrow mechanics . . . . ;D Just be thankful I did not give my 2 cents of bait/food plots/etc. Now, as to crossbows . . For sake of simplicity, I will play the part of the person hunting with a crossbow. (Which, unless someone simply GAVE me one, I don't ever see happening but anyway) Now. . . . . what is it exactly I am doing that is HURTING you? In any way? Or RESTRICTING you in any way? Or changing your chances in ANY WAY of scoring? What am I doing that is compromising or even affecting YOUR ability to hunt in exactly the same fashion as you always have?
This is no more an issue of 'need' than was the PCR or the OBR. Get off the 'need' wagon. It derailed on its maiden voyage. There is no demonstrable 'need' to hunt, fish or watch a basketball game in the first place. They are all 'wants', and have been so since food could be bartered for and the 'need' to kill to survive ended. Because you do not wish to partake in all the myriad of choices and opportunities out there does not justify your attempt to ban those choices for others. This is no different than the non hunters wanting to ban all hunting. They do not want to do it, nor want anyone ELSE to do it. Same exact school of thought.
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 17:11:53 GMT -5
exactly what are you doing that is .....
Hurting me? Nothing. Restricting me? Nothing. Changing my chances in ANY WAY of scoring? Nothing.
I am not attempting to ban anything.
Perhaps you are confused ..... you cannot ban something that is not legal in the first place. It is already "banned".
If it were already legal we would not be having the "make crossbows legal" discussions.
I am not on the "need" bandwagon. You are 100% correct .... this is not a "need" this is a "want". For both "sides". One side wants it and the other side does not want it. The only people who "need" it already have it.
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 17:19:11 GMT -5
Isnt it funny how archery has changed.
You shoot a very, very heavy weight bow ...... more than many people could comfortably handle.
I shoot a very modest set-up .... bowtech 63lbs with a 27.5 inch draw length pushing a 385 grain arrow in the 290-295fps range and still make 72lbft of KE. Enough for almost anything on the planet .......
I could make over 90lbft by upping my poundage to about 75 and pushing that same arrow to around 330fps.
Those numbers were unheard of 15 years ago.
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Post by JohnSmiles on Apr 11, 2007 17:50:42 GMT -5
exactly what are you doing that is ..... Hurting me? Nothing. Restricting me? Nothing. Changing my chances in ANY WAY of scoring? Nothing. I am not attempting to ban anything. Perhaps you are confused ..... you cannot ban something that is not legal in the first place. It is already "banned". If it were already legal we would not be having the "make crossbows legal" discussions. I am not on the "need" bandwagon. You are 100% correct .... this is not a "need" this is a "want". For both "sides". One side wants it and the other side does not want it. The only people who "need" it already have it. It is you who are confused here. While you admit it effects you in no way, you are against it. No one loses anything, while many gain, yet you are against it. This is the type of thinking I simply can NOT comprehend. It gives EVERYONE another choice in how they hunt, across the board, yet you are against it. For no other reason than YOU don't WANT it allowed to those who can't prove a NEED to use it. While at the same time pointing out it isn't about NEEDS in the first place. We are done here. I have played 'down the rabbit hole' with you before, and that is at best pointless.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Apr 11, 2007 17:53:45 GMT -5
...Isnt it funny how archery has changed. It's funny how a LOT of things have changed. And because of that, to me, the issue is very much like the PCR one in a very real way: When Shotguns were mandated, it was because shoguns & slugs meant pumpkinballs & short range. That was nullified by Shotgun Tech, which made them substantially equivelent to PCRs. Therefore, if you allow Sabot Slugs, it makes no sense to disallow PCRs. Likewise with Bows. The technology of archery has changed so dramatically within the last few years that the advantages and disadvantages of BOTH types of compound-based archery (cam & cross) offset each other - i.e. they are substantially equivelent. Thus, restricting one form of equipment that is substantially equivelent to an allowed form of equipment defies rationality. Now, that does NOT change a few personal & perceptive issues of the "learning curve" difference between Bows & crossbows - i.e. it's "easier" to learn to shoot a crossbow than a compound bow and therefore somehow "less authentic/manly/honest/whatever", but that is an issue that resides solely between the ears of the person holding that position. It is a personal opinion, not a mechanical fact. I, for one, really hate to see any laws based on personal opinions - no matter how many people share them.
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 18:01:27 GMT -5
john:
You are right. It is pointless. Your arguments make little to no sense to me. I read what you are writing and try to decide if you are kidding or if this is really the way you think.
I assume you are trying, in your own way, to say that a person should not be able to be for or against something just because it is what they want. I cant really comment on that ..... doesnt make much sense to me.
Would you support high powered rifles during firearms season? You would have to ... the only reason to say no is because you wouldnt want it.
Would you support baiting for deer? You would have to ..... the only reason to say no is because you wouldnt want it.
Would you support running them with hounds? You would have to ...... the only reason you would say no is because you wouldnt want it.
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 18:14:53 GMT -5
OIS:
I use a Savage smokeless MZ for firearms season.
You seem to like ballistics information ...... 250gr bullet over 76gr of 10x ..... about 2600fps or so.
This rivals most HPR's out there ..... so, one could argue Indiana already allows guns with ballistics's comparable to many deer HPR's .... why not allow all HPR's during gun season?
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Post by tmarsh83 on Apr 11, 2007 18:38:04 GMT -5
Swilk, john makes his decisions based on ethics too...if he doesnt want something there is some deep ethical meaning there...havent you noticed...
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 18:42:31 GMT -5
Yes I have ..... but Im sure there is some hidden conspiracy if we dig deep enough. j/k.
I am actually quite pleased that john and i disagree on most subjects.
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Post by JohnSmiles on Apr 11, 2007 20:46:35 GMT -5
Swilk, john makes his decisions based on ethics too...if he doesnt want something there is some deep ethical meaning there...havent you noticed... This is a thread about crossbows. Please go through puberty somewhere else.
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Post by tmarsh83 on Apr 11, 2007 20:55:45 GMT -5
I'm good John...thanks....
You say its nothing personal with me, yet, you make a point to jab me, while responding to nothing else. Heck, i stood up for ya..
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Post by hornharvester on Apr 11, 2007 21:58:08 GMT -5
Guys,
Lets all take a deep breath and calm down. These personal attacks and name calling must stop, period.
Lets get back on topic please. h.h.
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Post by JohnSmiles on Apr 11, 2007 22:21:38 GMT -5
. . . we had a topic? Oh yeah! ::ahem:: Crossbows legal across the board. No reason not to.
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Post by lugnutz on Apr 11, 2007 22:25:47 GMT -5
I think if you just let Seniors use Crossbows, you should let seniors use ATV's to retrieve their animal.
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