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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 12:42:29 GMT -5
For deer baiting is no different than hunting over a food source anyway. What is the difference between hunting over a bushell of apples under an apple tree or a bushell of apples under an oak tree? One is legal and one is not. Im gonna guess you would get many different opinions on that one .......
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 12:43:45 GMT -5
We need to announce May as the "put your can openers away" month.
No crossbow discussions. No PCR discussions. No OBR discussions.
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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 11, 2007 12:44:07 GMT -5
I must have missed it. Where does it detail the hunter retention that making crossbows legal during archery season made possible? I just showed you a graph of the loss of hunters due to age. The archery hunter age graph has a much more dramatic and a significant drop at a much earlier age than the firearm graph. Do you not think that we should do as much as possible to retain these archery hunters as well as recruit new hunters?
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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 11, 2007 12:45:50 GMT -5
We need to announce May as the "put your can openers away" month. No crossbow discussions. No PCR discussions. No OBR discussions. We'll be too busy chasing the turkey birds for much discussions.
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Post by js2397 on Apr 11, 2007 12:46:05 GMT -5
I'm sorry I easily get distracted.
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 12:56:12 GMT -5
I dont have an answer for that.
Part of me says definitely .... and part of me says that there comes a time when people have to stop doing things.
It is drawing very close to the time when my father will no longer hunt with me. I enjoy our time together more than anything in the world .... we have been hunting together since i was 6. But as he gets older I fear he is going to hurt himself or worse. He is forgetful ..... and I think it is dangerous for him to climb up and down a treestand.
Last year he ran his 4-wheeler through the back glass of his pickup truck because he "forgot" which side the brake was on.
He lost a pack with about $3000 worth of gear (walkers game ears, bino's, range finder, knife set ....) because he "forgot" it was on the trailer when he took off.
He almost fell out of his stand because he "forgot" to attach the strap that hold the stand in place.
Now, you tell me .... do you allow an aging person to continue doing something that you feel very strongly will hurt or kill them?
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 13:04:19 GMT -5
I will answer my own question ....... I will not ever stop hunting with him.
If he dies hunting with me at least I think he will die happy.
When my grandfather was 89 years old his Dr. told him to stop eating pork. Now, he had been eating bacon and eggs every morning for breakfast since he was a boy ........ my grandmother made him stop.
I always thought that was the most asinine thing I had ever heard of. Why should an 89 year old man stop doing something he enjoyed ....... what, he might live to be 91?
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Post by Old Ironsights on Apr 11, 2007 13:07:19 GMT -5
But the choice should still be up to the individual &/or their personal caregivers.
There are many elderly who haven't "forgot" a thing in their long lives... except how to retain muscle mass.
Heck, put a chair in a ground-blind... young or old, they can still hunt a funnel - so long as people let them use the tools appropriate for their age/condition.
It should be the hunter's choice, not one made arbitrairly from the outside.
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Post by js2397 on Apr 11, 2007 13:13:44 GMT -5
It would be nice if we allowed them for everybody but let’s just focus on three main groups. If anyone can give an unselfish reason for seniors, women, and youths not to use crossbows I would like to hear it.
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 13:15:33 GMT -5
If a person, elderly or disabled, truly needed to use a crossbow but was unable to obtain a permit ........ I would be all for it.
Woody has said before he does not feel our current minimum legal weight for archery gear is heavy enough. Ok, change the current regulation to a heavier weight. Then an argument could be made that it is to heavy for women/children/smaller people. But unless the regulation changes, the current weight is able to be handled by most any able bodied person.
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Post by hunter480 on Apr 11, 2007 13:19:27 GMT -5
Russ, Alot of what you are saying makes since 15 years ago. but it's 2007 now. We are no longer attempting to grow a deer herd, we are attempting to manage one. Manage? I was told we don't manage the herd, that isn't our job. Our job was simply to kill as the DNR allows. We aren't managers, we are killers. Thats what I was told. Nobody disagreed with that person then. Now all of the sudden we are managers? Good memory-and I stand by that-we aren`t game managers, we`re the "hired guns", Except we aren`t hired, we have to pay, that kill as many critters as the DNR, and certain SELF interest groups allow.
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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 11, 2007 13:23:29 GMT -5
More on old hunter retention. The archers drop off a the older that they get and it seems that crossbowers pick up the older that they get..
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Post by Woody Williams on Apr 11, 2007 13:30:45 GMT -5
If a person, elderly or disabled, truly needed to use a crossbow but was unable to obtain a permit ........ I would be all for it. Woody has said before he does not feel our current minimum legal weight for archery gear is heavy enough. Ok, change the current regulation to a heavier weight. Then an argument could be made that it is to heavy for women/children/smaller people. But unless the regulation changes, the current weight is able to be handled by most any able bodied person. Then the question then becomes the animal being hunted. Would we rather see someone shoot it with a marginal piece of archery equipment that requires good broadside only shots at close range or would we rather see someone shoot that deer with a much more than adequate piece of archery equipment?
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Post by tmarsh83 on Apr 11, 2007 13:34:05 GMT -5
choice /tʃɔɪs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[chois] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, adjective, choic·er, choic·est. –noun 1. an act or instance of choosing; selection: Her choice of a computer was made after months of research. His parents were not happy with his choice of friends. 2. the right, power, or opportunity to choose; option: The child had no choice about going to school. 3. the person or thing chosen or eligible to be chosen: This book is my choice. He is one of many choices for the award. 4. an alternative: There is another choice. 5. an abundance or variety from which to choose: a wide choice of candidates. 6. something that is preferred or preferable to others; the best part of something: Mare's Nest is the choice in the sixth race. 7. a carefully selected supply: This restaurant has a fine choice of wines. 8. a choice grade of beef.
op·por·tu·ni·ty /ˌɒpərˈtunɪti, -ˈtyu-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[op-er-too-ni-tee, -tyoo-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun, plural -ties. 1. an appropriate or favorable time or occasion: Their meeting afforded an opportunity to exchange views. 2. a situation or condition favorable for attainment of a goal. 3. a good position, chance, or prospect, as for advancement or success.
I don't see the overlap...
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Post by hunter480 on Apr 11, 2007 13:36:57 GMT -5
If a person, elderly or disabled, truly needed to use a crossbow but was unable to obtain a permit ........ I would be all for it. Woody has said before he does not feel our current minimum legal weight for archery gear is heavy enough. Ok, change the current regulation to a heavier weight. Then an argument could be made that it is to heavy for women/children/smaller people. But unless the regulation changes, the current weight is able to be handled by most any able bodied person. That`s the same thinking that tried to squash the PCR measure, because SOME don`t like the fact that PCR`s would be available for other hunters to use, simply sine THEY don`t like em, don`t want `em in the field. It`s crazy to want to hold everyone to your "want" that crossbows should only be used by handicapped hunters. I say let anyone use them during any legal archery season.
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Post by tmarsh83 on Apr 11, 2007 13:37:50 GMT -5
Manage? I was told we don't manage the herd, that isn't our job. Our job was simply to kill as the DNR allows. We aren't managers, we are killers. Thats what I was told. Nobody disagreed with that person then. Now all of the sudden we are managers? Good memory-and I stand by that-we aren`t game managers, we`re the "hired guns", Except we aren`t hired, we have to pay, that kill as many critters as the DNR, and certain SELF interest groups allow. The DNR doesn't tell you how to manage your property for deer usage. The DNR simply dictates the regulations that are in place for your taking of a state resource. The deer is not your property. The deer is the property of the state of indiana. We are recruited by the state for the chance to manage the herd by way of hunts. Virtually every other type of herd management is up to you.
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 13:39:42 GMT -5
Woody:
ok. Ill bite.
Which would be considered more marginal .... a modern compound which draws 35lbs and flings a 200gr. carbon arrow tipped with a razor sharp broadhead at 240fps. Or a traditional longbow with a 55lb pull at 28" which flings a handmade ceder arrow tipped with a razor sharp ziwiki at a blistering 150fps?
Would you argue that some traditional archery gear should be banned?
I wouldnt .... in the hands of a competent archer either setup results in a dead deer.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2007 13:42:40 GMT -5
As is a crossbow....why not have separate season for each or have compound users get a handicap permit. Seems if one man can shoot the long bow, everybody could?
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 13:45:25 GMT -5
It is crazy for you to be against using high powered rifles over bait piles in Spetember.
Just because you dont want it doesnt mean others shouldnt have the choice to do it.
(disclaimer: this post does not reflec the thoughts or opinions of swilk. It is given for educational purposes only)
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Post by swilk on Apr 11, 2007 13:50:16 GMT -5
As is a crossbow....why not have separate season for each or have compound users get a handicap permit. Seems if one man can shoot the long bow, everybody could? Your are barking at the base of the wrong tree. I have always said that I like categories ...... crossbows do not fit into my "archery" category. Longbows, recurves and compounds is all there is room for. Many, many people on this site say they are one in the same ..... that is fine. But to me they are not the same .... and I am not likely to be swayed by what anyone here or anywhere else for that matter says about it. If you ask a dyed-in-the-wool traditional archer if compounds should be considered "archery" ...... well, you might not like his answer either.
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