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Post by steiny on Nov 3, 2006 21:47:56 GMT -5
Even with a group, buying ground is going to cost a whole lot more than leasing. How much $$ are you willing to shell out to hunt?
Put it in the DNR's (read government) hands, and you'll get about fifty cents worth for every dollar spent, because a big hunk of the cash will go to administrative costs.
Lease, buy, form a hunt club, or tie up some ground for yourself somehow because good hunting ground is getting harder and harder to come by, it is in high demand, and it won't ever be any cheaper.
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Post by drs on Nov 4, 2006 8:12:13 GMT -5
Even with a group, buying ground is going to cost a whole lot more than leasing. How much $$ are you willing to shell out to hunt? The answer/solution to your question is to simply buy the land and build a home on it and live there. This is what my Brother and I are considering, in the comming year.
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Post by drs on Nov 4, 2006 8:53:53 GMT -5
I used to know a farmer who would lease his farm for what he owed in property tax each year...Today it is clear cut and about10 houses sitting on it...Loss of land do to development is my biggest worry,how do you stop that? A farmer or landowner leasing out his property to help pay for property taxes/insurance is a wonderful idea. This tells me that a Hunter wishing to lease will not be over charged as he is dealing with the landowner direct, not some outfit "Cartel" like Basecamp. As for loss of Hunting areas due to development, the only solution(s) to this is to buy your own property,in a remote area, or encourage the State's DNR to purchase more public lands. My Brother and I were talking about this very Thread topic, just this morning. He says that Hunting here in Indiana is fast becomming "History" and that about all is left, he terms, is "Back Alley" Hunting. He says it seem everywhere one hunts in Indiana, the area always has a bunch of housing developments in the area and limited hunting opportunities. Even in the areas that are being leased for hunting.
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Post by heavyarrow on Nov 4, 2006 10:53:18 GMT -5
Like them or not they are here to stay.
It will only get worse.
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Post by drs on Nov 4, 2006 11:05:37 GMT -5
Like them or not they are here to stay. It will only get worse. ....And so our sport of Hunting slowly dies.
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Post by Russ Koon on Nov 4, 2006 11:19:51 GMT -5
Hunter480, I tried to drum up some interest in a plan like you describe a few years ago on another site.
After considerable thought, I decided that the best way might be to use the business model of the real estate investment trusts. There are a number of these, and they often follow a patern in focusing on certain types of property.....shopping malls, hotels, etc.
It seems to me that hunting land could be the focus of such a group. Shares could be sold on the open market, and the land leased also on the open market. There might or might not be a way to offer the leases at a discounted rate to shareholders, not sure of the legal status of that. In anycase, the people most likely to be interested in owning shares in any such corporation would be hunters, especially if the leasing of hunting rights could be discounted to them. If it's completely free to shareholders, then you have a hunt club rather than an investment corporation. Nothing wrong with that either, but they are best kept small and between close friends, becuse there WILL be disagreements over who's using the land more, who's bringing non-members in with him, and so forth. I thought a larger corporation would be a better way to handle the rules violations, and would give all participants more freedom in buying in or out based on current values without upsetting the whole deal and causing hard feelings or the disbanding of the operation.
Maybe it just sounded too cold, or guys were suspicious of it becoming another business after their dollar, I don't know. Anyway, it didn't generate much interest at that time. I still feel like it would be a good way to handle the situation, but I don't have much confidence that it will generate much more interest this time.
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Post by hunter480 on Nov 4, 2006 11:55:46 GMT -5
Hunter480, I tried to drum up some interest in a plan like you describe a few years ago on another site. After considerable thought, I decided that the best way might be to use the business model of the real estate investment trusts. There are a number of these, and they often follow a patern in focusing on certain types of property.....shopping malls, hotels, etc. It seems to me that hunting land could be the focus of such a group. Shares could be sold on the open market, and the land leased also on the open market. There might or might not be a way to offer the leases at a discounted rate to shareholders, not sure of the legal status of that. In anycase, the people most likely to be interested in owning shares in any such corporation would be hunters, especially if the leasing of hunting rights could be discounted to them. If it's completely free to shareholders, then you have a hunt club rather than an investment corporation. Nothing wrong with that either, but they are best kept small and between close friends, becuse there WILL be disagreements over who's using the land more, who's bringing non-members in with him, and so forth. I thought a larger corporation would be a better way to handle the rules violations, and would give all participants more freedom in buying in or out based on current values without upsetting the whole deal and causing hard feelings or the disbanding of the operation. Maybe it just sounded too cold, or guys were suspicious of it becoming another business after their dollar, I don't know. Anyway, it didn't generate much interest at that time. I still feel like it would be a good way to handle the situation, but I don't have much confidence that it will generate much more interest this time. I would be extremely interested in an idea like that Russ-and maybe with the sudden surge in leasing practices, a lot of other guys might be interested now too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2006 12:23:27 GMT -5
Like them or not they are here to stay. It will only get worse. ....And so our sport of Hunting slowly dies. where your wrong is that with hunters being more urbanized, most don't have contacts with land or family with land to hunt on....so they have to find land in other ways that hunters used to take for granted that already have those contacts. Leasers of land are just a passinate about hunting than you are, maybe more so. They invest a lot of money in their sport, same as their friends do for golf or boating or fishing or what ever. They don't have family with farms, and they don't want to hunt public land, so they find a lease. Works for them....they are no more likely to give up hunting than someone else gives up golf because the green fees go up a dollar or two.
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Post by drs on Nov 4, 2006 14:31:10 GMT -5
....And so our sport of Hunting slowly dies. where your wrong is that with hunters being more urbanized, most don't have contacts with land or family with land to hunt on....so they have to find land in other ways that hunters used to take for granted that already have those contacts. Leasers of land are just a passinate about hunting than you are, maybe more so. They invest a lot of money in their sport, same as their friends do for golf or boating or fishing or what ever. They don't have family with farms, and they don't want to hunt public land, so they find a lease. Works for them....they are no more likely to give up hunting than someone else gives up golf because the green fees go up a dollar or two. My Brother & myself will be looking to buy our own land for Hunting/Fishing, in the comming year. Most likely in another State as there is simply too much development and shrinking hunting areas here in Indiana. The sport of Hunting, here in Indiana, is dying ~FAST~!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2006 17:30:55 GMT -5
Smart move. Buy land and hunt. It's a great past time. Even if you have to lease to do it.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Nov 4, 2006 20:25:59 GMT -5
where your wrong is that with hunters being more urbanized, most don't have contacts with land or family with land to hunt on....so they have to find land in other ways that hunters used to take for granted that already have those contacts. Leasers of land are just a passinate about hunting than you are, maybe more so. They invest a lot of money in their sport, same as their friends do for golf or boating or fishing or what ever. They don't have family with farms, and they don't want to hunt public land, so they find a lease. Works for them....they are no more likely to give up hunting than someone else gives up golf because the green fees go up a dollar or two. Really? When was the last time you Grossed less than $24K? I'm one of those (involuntairly) urbanized folks with ZERO connections in this state. I'm here because I don't have a good job elsewhere. Hell, I don't have a good one here, but at least I can eat. What I CAN'T do is regularly spend more money than required for Tags and Bullets. This year I already spent way more money than I don't (and won't) have just to get the guns & gear that Woodlot & Field Hunting seem to "require". Quite simply, if and only if I could find a group to partner with could I even think about getting in on Land or a lease. It used to be that Hunting was one way for folks of limited means to get good meat. That's almost not possible any more.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2006 20:40:15 GMT -5
where your wrong is that with hunters being more urbanized, most don't have contacts with land or family with land to hunt on....so they have to find land in other ways that hunters used to take for granted that already have those contacts. Leasers of land are just a passinate about hunting than you are, maybe more so. They invest a lot of money in their sport, same as their friends do for golf or boating or fishing or what ever. They don't have family with farms, and they don't want to hunt public land, so they find a lease. Works for them....they are no more likely to give up hunting than someone else gives up golf because the green fees go up a dollar or two. Really? When was the last time you Grossed less than $24K? I'm one of those (involuntairly) urbanized folks with ZERO connections in this state. I'm here because I don't have a good job elsewhere. Hell, I don't have a good one here, but at least I can eat. What I CAN'T do is regularly spend more money than required for Tags and Bullets. This year I already spent way more money than I don't (and won't) have just to get the guns & gear that Woodlot & Field Hunting seem to "require". Quite simply, if and only if I could find a group to partner with could I even think about getting in on Land or a lease. It used to be that Hunting was one way for folks of limited means to get good meat. That's almost not possible any more. If you want to hunt bad enough, you'll get two jobs if one isn't enough??? If you can't afford a lease by yourself, form a group to do it. If that fails to achieve what you want, you might give up your other vices (smokes, beer, lotto tickets, etc.) and see if that frees up some extra money.
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Post by 10point on Nov 4, 2006 21:11:22 GMT -5
This thread is depressing. I moved to a new part of the state a couple of years ago and I have found 3 places to hunt deer and without leasing. Two of them are pretty small but they all hold some deer. I think many people who say they can't find a place to hunt don't actually look very hard. I use a plat map and I also have a letter of introduction that I use and I always ask to just bowhunt first. After reading things like this thread I sometimes wish I never would have never been introduced to hunting and don't know wheter or not I care if my 7 year old Son takes up the sport.
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Gator
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Post by Gator on Nov 4, 2006 21:19:18 GMT -5
i've looked into a lot of their properties and some are overpriced and some are good looking farms with lots of game and reasonable...If you think they are high, head down to the southeast and try to lease land.
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Nov 4, 2006 21:33:05 GMT -5
I don't see hunting dying out due to high lease costs or lack of public lands. We have plenty of public lands here in Indiana! OK during deer season it may not be the best place for a young person. I've posted about this on another thread. I maybe inferring here, but it seems like this is all about getting the best land for deer hunting.
My boy (12) would rather hunt rabbit, squirrel, or upland birds. Why? He can sit still for 6 hours waiting on a deer. Now I understand other young hunters are able to; but the point is that if deer hunting is out for this season than there are other types of hunting available. I haven't seen many hunters out on public lands during the small game seasons. I did run into some problems at Atterbury FW, hey I just moved to a new location.
Hunting private land is much better; but, if you want to pass on the tradition it is possible.
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Post by hunter480 on Nov 4, 2006 22:04:03 GMT -5
This thread is depressing. I moved to a new part of the state a couple of years ago and I have found 3 places to hunt deer and without leasing. Two of them are pretty small but they all hold some deer. I think many people who say they can't find a place to hunt don't actually look very hard. I use a plat map and I also have a letter of introduction that I use and I always ask to just bowhunt first. After reading things like this thread I sometimes wish I never would have never been introduced to hunting and don't know wheter or not I care if my 7 year old Son takes up the sport. It`s GREAT that you had the good fortune to find new places to hunt-it`s truly good for you. It`s wrong though, to assume that because some folks can`t find spots to hunt that they "just aren`t trying hard enough". You have no idea what someone else’s situations is, nor the situation of land in the area in which they reside. That`s nearly as caviler as telling someone that if hunting meant enough to them they’d be working several jobs to support it. It amazes me that people can be that condescending and thoughtless. We`re all like family here-we should be treating each other as such.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2006 22:39:39 GMT -5
"That`s nearly as caviler as telling someone that if hunting meant enough to them they’d be working several jobs to support it. It amazes me that people can be that condescending and thoughtless."
I won't quit, even if that's what it takes. some will take the easier road out though, so to each his own.
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Post by drs on Nov 5, 2006 8:39:21 GMT -5
Smart move. Buy land and hunt. It's a great past time. Even if you have to lease to do it. No, My Brother & I are looking to buy......NOT LEASE!! By your posts, "timex" it doesn't take much brain power to realize that you are in favor of these so called "Cartels" taking over private lands through "sweetheart" deals which displaces many average Sportsmen from their places they have hunted in the past. Now when outfits like "Basecamp" come in and start charging greatly inflated fees; only the rich can afford to hunt. This type of enterprise will further reduce the numbers of Hunters, which will affect the economy & Business, of the sporting goods commerce catering to sport hunting. You mention to one poster that they should get two or more jobs inorder to afford their favorite sport. What a redundent statement to make to someone! What you and your kind fail to realize that many, who enjoy Hunting, also have Mortages, Car payments, Insurance premiums, and kids to put through college. This along with average household expenses limits the amount a Hunter can spend on his sport. Most are currently living paycheck to paycheck. Your Cartel buddies, while not saying directly, is that you really don't want the average citizen hunter to hunt but rather your rich friends. Again the State should outlaw these outfits that gouge hunters left & right. Everyone reading this should write the State and expressing a desire to not allow Outfits like Basecamp to just come in and take over nearly all the prime hunting areas. If a Farmer wants to lease out his or her property then they should do so on their own without the Cartel getting involved. Maybe the State could give Farmers tax breaks to allow a reasonable number of hunter to use his land, and the Hunters could either give them a money "tip" or help them out with a land problem.
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Gator
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Post by Gator on Nov 5, 2006 10:23:40 GMT -5
Everyone reading this should write the State and expressing a desire to not allow Outfits like Basecamp to just come in and take over nearly all the prime hunting areas. If a Farmer wants to lease out his or her property then they should do so on their own without the Cartel getting involved. Maybe the State could give Farmers tax breaks to allow a reasonable number of hunter to use his land, and the Hunters could either give them a money "tip" or help them out with a land problem. If the hunters would sack up and talk to the farmers than the farmers could simply tell basecamp that there land is already leased. But obviously the hunters didnt step up...or wanted a free ride. Dont blame a corporation for wanting to make money...How do you make a living. Dont get me wrong i'm not for lease prices going up, but last time I checked- everything in America is going up in price. I dont think that lease prices going up caused the rest of these problems in our country...Something else caused lease prices to go up.
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Post by drs on Nov 5, 2006 10:35:02 GMT -5
Yes, Quite simply put it's GREED making prices go up. What we have is a resource owned by the people of Indiana being use, by a private corporation, to make a profit through some Loophole in the laws. Again these "Cartels" are circumventing a State's game Department ability to manage wildlife correctly, by taking over vast areas and excluding the proper amount of those wishing to hunt unless they can come up with the inflated lease fees.
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