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Post by steiny on Nov 2, 2006 21:41:31 GMT -5
Sorry, but I don't see that same gloom & doom picture. With or without leasing, whitetail deer hunting is a very affordable recreation activity. And for those that can't swing a lease, there are ample opportunities to hunt private ground for free, and some pretty awesome public hunting ground opportunities.
I'll agree that its harder to find good hunting spots than it used to be, but still easily within anyone's reach. Now ..... If a guy is too lazy, won't drive a few miles, or is too dumb to figure out how to come up with a place to hunt, there is little any of us can do to help that.
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Post by drs on Nov 3, 2006 8:21:27 GMT -5
All I have to add to what's been said is that the State's DNR's better address this leasing/gouging problem ASAP before it is too late. What is going to happen is that these outfits like Basecamp are going to affect sport hunting in such a negative way that many Hunting related businesses are simply going to go out of business. Your gunshop, sporting good stores, will see a drastic drop off in business as the average Hunter/Sportsman will no longer be able to afford their sport and will quit. These outfits, like Basecamp, in my opinion, are operating in a "GRAY" area of the law by using a State's natural resource (Wildlife/Game animals) that BELONG to the PEOPLE of any given state, for their own profit. This is NOT right and should be stopped!!! NOW!!!!
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on Nov 3, 2006 9:20:38 GMT -5
I think I would lease if I didn't have the ground I already have to hunt.I don't think it would be to bad to pony up the money if you had a few friends to go in on it.I probably blow a $1000 on nothing every year.I also think leasing is going to be the way you have to go,more farmers are seeing they can make extra money for use of their land.
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Post by drs on Nov 3, 2006 9:43:45 GMT -5
I also think leasing is going to be the way you have to go,more farmers are seeing they can make extra money for use of their land. I too am not against the Farmers making a little money, through leasing, as long as the price is fair. It's when big outfits go around and make "Sweetheart" deals, with landowners, resulting in the "booting"off of many Sportsmen, that have hunted there for years. Please understand Indiana is way too small of a State for Basecamp & others to hog up all the land for Wealthy Hunters. I can see the large Western States having such opperations as out west it is much different type hunting, and an outfitter comes in handy. But again only at a fair price.
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on Nov 3, 2006 10:06:33 GMT -5
I see where you are coming from drs..What would you consider a fair price for 200-300(or less) acres of great deer hunting ground?I'm talking ag crops maybe some nice clover fields,river bottoms,oak flats the works and some known BIG bucks in there?Would you rather have it between you and a few buddies or let the farmer let whoever wants to hunt it hunt it.Since I don't like big crowds,I'd rather have the first option...I really don't know much about basecamp,but that would sound like a good deal to me for a years worth of deer and turkey hunting..This is just my opinion..
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Post by duff on Nov 3, 2006 11:35:01 GMT -5
I live in a new area, new job that doesn't allow me to tromp around like I used to, plus 2 kids under 3 yrs old. I can't justify running around much anymore. I will be leasing next year more then likely so I can take my oldest kid.
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Post by kevin1 on Nov 3, 2006 12:18:55 GMT -5
I'd hunt the most crowded public before I'd ever pay the price of a lease , that's one thing(other than deer procuring) that I'll never contribute to or support .
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Post by hunter7x on Nov 3, 2006 14:00:59 GMT -5
"Regarding pricing the average dude out, I don't buy that theory either. They offer plenty of leases in the $1000 - $2000 range that could be split between 2-3 hunters. That's pretty darned cheap for three months worth of deer hunting, plus whatever other sports you do on the leased land. Most guys easily pizz that much money away every year at their hobbies."
Have you seen them ? 2-3 guys on a $1000.00 lease is gonna be a 40 acre corn field with a fence row in it ! I have intimate knowledge of a property the leased from under us and the peoperty wasn't anything like it was described. I know for a fact some hunters from georgia and Florida leased most of the ground we used to hunt. Most of the leases were signed with the property being sight unseen. Yes people can afford it, but not joe average hunter. If it's made affordable by the numbers of people who are on the lease then you will be sacrificing the hunting quality with over crowding. I don't want to share a 100 acre field and a fence row with 2 other hunters.
I like the idea of knocking on the landowners door and making them an offer ! I think that is great !
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Post by hunter7x on Nov 3, 2006 14:08:32 GMT -5
"Now ..... If a guy is too lazy, won't drive a few miles, or is too dumb to figure out how to come up with a place to hunt, there is little any of us can do to help that."
Like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it ?!!! If someone is too dumb to acknowledge the facts that leasing is bad for resident deer hunters....we can't do anything about that can we ?
Come on....
I normally don't stoop to what I just typed but call any resident deer hunter in Illinois or Texas and ask them what leasing has done for their sport.
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Post by js2397 on Nov 3, 2006 15:16:20 GMT -5
It's much better than buying the same amount of land. They have a 300 acre piece in Harrison county for $3700. To buy that land it would be between $450000 to $750000. For a monthly payment of $2913 to $4855. Someone had to buy it to begin with so I guess if they want to lease the hunting rights they should be able to.
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Post by hunter480 on Nov 3, 2006 16:26:28 GMT -5
It's much better than buying the same amount of land. They have a 300 acre piece in Harrison county for $3700. To buy that land it would be between $450000 to $750000. For a monthly payment of $2913 to $4855. Someone had to buy it to begin with so I guess if they want to lease the hunting rights they should be able to. I don`t believe anyone is arguing that the landowner shouldn`t be able to lease their land. I think there are 2 points being made. 1) Third party outfits like basecamp are causing lease prices to be much higher than if the deals were made just between the landowner and the hunter(s). 2) Many of us believe the trend of leasing is sooner or later, going to be bad for hunting-some don`t want to hear that the average guy can get priced out of hunting, but they have their heads in the sand.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Nov 3, 2006 17:16:15 GMT -5
...some don`t want to hear that the average guy can get priced out of hunting, but they have their heads in the sand. That or they have their head in their wallets. Pricing out the little guy means more $$$ in the hands of Guides, & Operators. No downside to them... untill all the rich hunters die off in about 20 years.
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Post by steiny on Nov 3, 2006 19:03:34 GMT -5
My buddy leased an awesome 250 acre piece of ground through Basecamp for $1500. You could easily hunt 2-3 guys on that patch and not be bothering one another.
Basecamp provides a service that serves both parties well. The landowner has a single source he can turn to to get his land leased, without advertising, haggling with hunters, writing up contracts, etc. That is all taken care of. The hunter simply has to look on a website to find a lease and go check it out, instead of advertising, beating on doors, haggling with farmers, etc.
Seems to me those services are worth charging a bit for.
Question to those who think Basecamp is running the prices up. What do you think is a fair price to have a good deer hunting farm all to yourself?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2006 19:06:11 GMT -5
I also think leasing is going to be the way you have to go,more farmers are seeing they can make extra money for use of their land. I too am not against the Farmers making a little money, through leasing, as long as the price is fair. It's when big outfits go around and make "Sweetheart" deals, with landowners, resulting in the "booting"off of many Sportsmen, that have hunted there for years. Please understand Indiana is way too small of a State for Basecamp & others to hog up all the land for Wealthy Hunters. I can see the large Western States having such opperations as out west it is much different type hunting, and an outfitter comes in handy. But again only at a fair price. You obviously don't understand how this works. First, the landowners sets the price as to what he wants for his hunting rights. Second, Basecamps attempts to find them a grop that wants the land. the get paid a portion of the lease fee for their work. Now, some of these properties are overpriced and don't lease. some or priced fair. Seldom are they under priced, but those type of deals do come up from time to time. Where the service that Basecamps does is helpful to hunters is they do the leg work and find the properties. They handle the legal work, and the insurance needs of the farmer. They do the work, and act as a go between the parties. Most of the time the probably charge about a 1/4 of the lease fee, added on to the total. No one forces anyone to pay these prices or forces the lanowner to put them up for lease. IT's a free market and everyone has that right in our system. Now, for those like David that think these prices are high. Go out and buy a chunk of land and see what it costs. Then up keep the land, and watch people hunt it for free and not take care of it. Watch them ride ATV's over it and never say thanks. Watch it all. Then wonder why leasing is taking off more and more all the time. When you do, you'll go back and say that Basecamp isn't too high after all.
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on Nov 3, 2006 19:20:47 GMT -5
I used to know a farmer who would lease his farm for what he owed in property tax each year...Today it is clear cut and about10 houses sitting on it...Loss of land do to development is my biggest worry,how do you stop that?
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Post by hunter480 on Nov 3, 2006 19:22:33 GMT -5
I too am not against the Farmers making a little money, through leasing, as long as the price is fair. It's when big outfits go around and make "Sweetheart" deals, with landowners, resulting in the "booting"off of many Sportsmen, that have hunted there for years. Please understand Indiana is way too small of a State for Basecamp & others to hog up all the land for Wealthy Hunters. I can see the large Western States having such opperations as out west it is much different type hunting, and an outfitter comes in handy. But again only at a fair price. You obviously don't understand how this works. First, the landowners sets the price as to what he wants for his hunting rights. Second, Basecamps attempts to find them a grop that wants the land. the get paid a portion of the lease fee for their work. Now, some of these properties are overpriced and don't lease. some or priced fair. Seldom are they under priced, but those type of deals do come up from time to time. Where the service that Basecamps does is helpful to hunters is they do the leg work and find the properties. They handle the legal work, and the insurance needs of the farmer. They do the work, and act as a go between the parties. Most of the time the probably charge about a 1/4 of the lease fee, added on to the total. No one forces anyone to pay these prices or forces the lanowner to put them up for lease. IT's a free market and everyone has that right in our system. Now, for those like David that think these prices are high. Go out and buy a chunk of land and see what it costs. Then up keep the land, and watch people hunt it for free and not take care of it. Watch them ride ATV's over it and never say thanks. Watch it all. Then wonder why leasing is taking off more and more all the time. When you do, you'll go back and say that Basecamp isn't too high after all. What about the artifically high land prices leasing causes-and these wonderful middle men add to the cost of hunting land increasing, artifically, and at a rate much higher than other real estate. Many of us here have a bad feeling about these companies, and I believe in always following my instincts-some things are good for deer hunting, some things not so good. Time will tell what effect these companies will have on deer hunting overall, but I don`t believe it`s going to be beneficial.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2006 19:28:32 GMT -5
Simple...follow the trend of what leases cost on average and if it's too much, don't lease it. If it's worth the money, someone will. Just don't complain when they are all gone because you wouldn't spend a couple extra bucks a year.
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Post by hunter480 on Nov 3, 2006 19:45:25 GMT -5
I used to know a farmer who would lease his farm for what he owed in property tax each year...Today it is clear cut and about10 houses sitting on it...Loss of land do to development is my biggest worry,how do you stop that? I believe you just hit the 20 million dollar question-I firmly believe land lost to development is the biggest threat facing hunting today. How many of us would be willing to pool money with other hunters to purchase agricultural land that farmers intend to sell-I know I certainly would. It wouldn`t be cheap, look at what developers are willing to pay-but it would be worth every dime. If you follow the logic some use, heck, you’d just not bother with buying it, `cause, if it`s overpriced just don`t do business with `em-but it`s a fact that land available to hunt is disappearing at an alarming rate. Development, commercial as well as residential, has encroached on prime hunting spots, and shut it down in many case as new residents of what used to be rural areas, complain about gunfire, and the firing of hunting weapons so near to housing. If the DNR would find a way to actively pursue buying ag land for hunting purposes, how many would be a part of it-and how much would you be willing to chip in, how often? You know that hunters would have to foot the entire bill-bambi lovers aren`t going to chip in to buy land for us to hunt on-but it`s always been that way anyhow. The money we all spend is the bulk of the funds that run the DNR- Pittman-Robertson monies have funded the programs that benefit wildlife, game and non-game animals alike. Who would chip in? Who would volunteer their non-hunting time to assist?
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on Nov 3, 2006 19:53:18 GMT -5
would forming a hunting club be worth while?Have a group of guys go in togehter and buy some ground or is that a bad idea also?
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Post by hunter480 on Nov 3, 2006 20:51:02 GMT -5
would forming a hunting club be worth while?Have a group of guys go in togehter and buy some ground or is that a bad idea also? That would be fine-but I suppose I was imagining the whole group of hunters in Indiana getting together to do something like that. With that many hunters, there could be a lot more money available without it necessarily being a burden on a smaller group. Dunno how something like that could even get organized, but I`d be all for it, would contribute, and would donate time to help as well.
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