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Post by hornzilla on Aug 25, 2022 12:55:45 GMT -5
Just remember before you go get a harassment charge on yourself because of the "line setter" I pay taxes on my property. I can hunt ever inch of it. Nothing wrong with it unless you are shooting ACROSS the property line.
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Post by Ahawkeye on Aug 25, 2022 12:58:11 GMT -5
Just remember before you go get a harassment charge on yourself because of the "line setter" I pay taxes on my property. I can hunt ever inch of it. Nothing wrong with it unless you are shooting ACROSS the property line. This is true.
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Post by treetop on Aug 25, 2022 16:32:58 GMT -5
If I were in this group of 4 hunters, this year I'd talk with the other 3 guys and see about hiring a helicopter to set our butts down 20' inside the public property line, flip the bird to the rancher and go on my merry way. Would there be a prohibition from landing the helicopter on the public land? I don't know. jtclark said: "What does the rancher do next year after these hunters win this suit to gain use of private land they never paid for. Next year there are 50 hunters using that step ladder and the first on there decides that step ladder would be a heck of a deer stand and he don't have to carry it all the way back there so he plops there for the week end. Court already said he has right to use it like it is his own. He just blocked you our of corner crossing. Who is gonna sue HIM? Go around him doubling the amount of use of the land OWNERS? If you put the step ladder there do you own that?" First off, "What does the rancher do next year after these hunters win this suit to gain use of private land they never paid for." That is wrong. ALL of us hunters AND non-hunters paid for that PUBLIC property with our taxes. They are NOT hunting on private ground. The landowner is saying that they violated his airspace and that hurt him. From this article: wyofile.com/corner-crossers-face-new-civil-suit-as-prosecutor-tries-to-add-charge/To carry out corner crossing, “the person must physically travel across the privately-owned [sic] real property,” Iron Bar Holdings alleges in its civil suit. Iron Bar owns and controls the airspace above its real property, “even if Defendants did not step onto the surface of the Property. Laws allow boaters to traverse navigable waters across private property and low-level flight that does not “interfere with the existing use” of the private land, according to the dismissal motion. Given those circumstances, plus case law and the statutes themselves, a hunter could even strap an unworkable drone on his or her back and legally cross a corner, the motion states. The bowhunters’ attorneys suggest that any reading of trespass laws that allow such an interpretation — a reading proposed by those charging the bowhunters — is absurd, should be rejected and disqualified as the basis of charges. “A reality where this is actually the case is an absurd reality, and an interpretation of law that creates absurd results,” the motion states. “Such an interpretation would mean that a hiker running from a mountain lion, who swings their flailing arms over a private property line, has committed criminal trespass.” The big theoretical question is what if a hunter would strap a workable drone to his back, fire it up, and jump from one corner to the other. Could he then claim that the drone helped him "create low-leevl flight" even for a nano second and that would make him untouchable to corner cross? If I were the hunters, I'd file a hunter harassment charge, because "The hunters allege the Elk Mountain Ranch Manager Steve Grende illegally harassed them while they were hunting on public land." If that is true, then "Hunter harassment itself is illegal in Wyoming and aggrieved parties can file a civil suit. “Actual damages recoverable may include, but are not limited to expenditures for licenses, travel, outfitters and guides and special equipment and supplies to the extent the expenditures are rendered futile by the person’s conduct in violation of this section,” the law states.“If the trier of fact finds that the unlawful conduct was malicious, it may award punitive damage to the injured party,” the statute reads. I don’t remember but about ten years ago a big name tv hunter did just that himself and pilot both got fined ended up in trouble with DNR or someone along that line something about landing a commercial aircraft on public ground I wish I could remember the whole thing right but it’s been done before
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Post by treetop on Aug 25, 2022 17:24:03 GMT -5
Just remember before you go get a harassment charge on yourself because of the "line setter" I pay taxes on my property. I can hunt ever inch of it. Nothing wrong with it unless you are shooting ACROSS the property line. Not to sideline this thread again but I also bought pay taxes on my ground if I want to cut wood ride my side by side who decided that was hunter harassment maybe I’m a non hunter and have no idea it’s opening day I also should be allowed to use every sq inch of it as I see fit. My only real complaint about my line sitting neighbor is that he does it and really there is no reason for it The back of my ground splits a section in half he has two fence rows that are a 1/2 mile long that run to the next road on his land He also has about 10 to 12 acres of woods he could hunt both of theses areas would put him away from me and the other neighbor. I’ve watched deer walk both of those fence rows going to or coming from my ground I’ve watch deer walk out of his woods going to or coming from my ground we hunt the same deer every day these are really just smaller tracts of ground I agree he should be able to use every sq inch of his ground I don’t own theses deer he takes one good for him maybe he thinks I’m killing everyone of them Last year my neighbor was hunting the water way had a buck coming his way it had came across his ground headed to either my ground or maybe the line sitting neighbor land. The line sitting neighbor starts blowing on a grunt and starts rattling trying to pull the deer away to him he knew he was in his stand you’d have to be blind not to see him he wears orange from top to bottom not so sure his shoes are not orange Enough of my crybaby butt But make no mistake I will continue and so will my other neighbor to make every effort to give him hints be it a side by side cutting wood spreading manure Really all we both want is a bit of respect and space so that we can enjoy our land and in this case I don’t fill it’s that much to ask if that was the only opportunity he had to hunt I’d probably get over it like it no but live with it yes
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Post by Ahawkeye on Aug 25, 2022 18:04:11 GMT -5
If I were in this group of 4 hunters, this year I'd talk with the other 3 guys and see about hiring a helicopter to set our butts down 20' inside the public property line, flip the bird to the rancher and go on my merry way. Would there be a prohibition from landing the helicopter on the public land? I don't know. jtclark said: "What does the rancher do next year after these hunters win this suit to gain use of private land they never paid for. Next year there are 50 hunters using that step ladder and the first on there decides that step ladder would be a heck of a deer stand and he don't have to carry it all the way back there so he plops there for the week end. Court already said he has right to use it like it is his own. He just blocked you our of corner crossing. Who is gonna sue HIM? Go around him doubling the amount of use of the land OWNERS? If you put the step ladder there do you own that?" First off, "What does the rancher do next year after these hunters win this suit to gain use of private land they never paid for." That is wrong. ALL of us hunters AND non-hunters paid for that PUBLIC property with our taxes. They are NOT hunting on private ground. The landowner is saying that they violated his airspace and that hurt him. From this article: wyofile.com/corner-crossers-face-new-civil-suit-as-prosecutor-tries-to-add-charge/To carry out corner crossing, “the person must physically travel across the privately-owned [sic] real property,” Iron Bar Holdings alleges in its civil suit. Iron Bar owns and controls the airspace above its real property, “even if Defendants did not step onto the surface of the Property. Laws allow boaters to traverse navigable waters across private property and low-level flight that does not “interfere with the existing use” of the private land, according to the dismissal motion. Given those circumstances, plus case law and the statutes themselves, a hunter could even strap an unworkable drone on his or her back and legally cross a corner, the motion states. The bowhunters’ attorneys suggest that any reading of trespass laws that allow such an interpretation — a reading proposed by those charging the bowhunters — is absurd, should be rejected and disqualified as the basis of charges. “A reality where this is actually the case is an absurd reality, and an interpretation of law that creates absurd results,” the motion states. “Such an interpretation would mean that a hiker running from a mountain lion, who swings their flailing arms over a private property line, has committed criminal trespass.” The big theoretical question is what if a hunter would strap a workable drone to his back, fire it up, and jump from one corner to the other. Could he then claim that the drone helped him "create low-leevl flight" even for a nano second and that would make him untouchable to corner cross? If I were the hunters, I'd file a hunter harassment charge, because "The hunters allege the Elk Mountain Ranch Manager Steve Grende illegally harassed them while they were hunting on public land." If that is true, then "Hunter harassment itself is illegal in Wyoming and aggrieved parties can file a civil suit. “Actual damages recoverable may include, but are not limited to expenditures for licenses, travel, outfitters and guides and special equipment and supplies to the extent the expenditures are rendered futile by the person’s conduct in violation of this section,” the law states.“If the trier of fact finds that the unlawful conduct was malicious, it may award punitive damage to the injured party,” the statute reads. I don’t remember but about ten years ago a big name tv hunter did just that himself and pilot both got fined ended up in trouble with DNR or someone along that line something about landing a commercial aircraft on public ground I wish I could remember the whole thing right but it’s been done before I believe Randy Newberg did this, not sure if he got a fine but he did get the short end of the deal on a mule deer tag. Something about the rancher controlling all of the tags in that area but I could be wrong. He may have done this on more than one occasion. On another note about Randy Newberg, he's just a regular guy I don't think he has a load of money.
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Post by greghopper on Aug 25, 2022 18:47:42 GMT -5
Just remember before you go get a harassment charge on yourself because of the "line setter" I pay taxes on my property. I can hunt ever inch of it. Nothing wrong with it unless you are shooting ACROSS the property line. Not to sideline this thread again but I also bought pay taxes on my ground if I want to cut wood ride my side by side who decided that was hunter harassment maybe I’m a non hunter and have no idea it’s opening day I also should be allowed to use every sq inch of it as I see fit. My only real complaint about my line sitting neighbor is that he does it and really there is no reason for it The back of my ground splits a section in half he has two fence rows that are a 1/2 mile long that run to the next road on his land He also has about 10 to 12 acres of woods he could hunt both of theses areas would put him away from me and the other neighbor. I’ve watched deer walk both of those fence rows going to or coming from my ground I’ve watch deer walk out of his woods going to or coming from my ground we hunt the same deer every day these are really just smaller tracts of ground I agree he should be able to use every sq inch of his ground I don’t own theses deer he takes one good for him maybe he thinks I’m killing everyone of them Last year my neighbor was hunting the water way had a buck coming his way it had came across his ground headed to either my ground or maybe the line sitting neighbor land. The line sitting neighbor starts blowing on a grunt and starts rattling trying to pull the deer away to him he knew he was in his stand you’d have to be blind not to see him he wears orange from top to bottom not so sure his shoes are not orange Enough of my crybaby butt But make no mistake I will continue and so will my other neighbor to make every effort to give him hints be it a side by side cutting wood spreading manure Really all we both want is a bit of respect and space so that we can enjoy our land and in this case I don’t fill it’s that much to ask if that was the only opportunity he had to hunt I’d probably get over it like it no but live with it yes I get what your saying…. But as a hunting site/community we can’t openly say we will Harass another hunter because we disagree with his ethics IMO Hopefully you guys can work things out some how…. Good luck!
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Post by treetop on Aug 25, 2022 20:42:23 GMT -5
Not to sideline this thread again but I also bought pay taxes on my ground if I want to cut wood ride my side by side who decided that was hunter harassment maybe I’m a non hunter and have no idea it’s opening day I also should be allowed to use every sq inch of it as I see fit. My only real complaint about my line sitting neighbor is that he does it and really there is no reason for it The back of my ground splits a section in half he has two fence rows that are a 1/2 mile long that run to the next road on his land He also has about 10 to 12 acres of woods he could hunt both of theses areas would put him away from me and the other neighbor. I’ve watched deer walk both of those fence rows going to or coming from my ground I’ve watch deer walk out of his woods going to or coming from my ground we hunt the same deer every day these are really just smaller tracts of ground I agree he should be able to use every sq inch of his ground I don’t own theses deer he takes one good for him maybe he thinks I’m killing everyone of them Last year my neighbor was hunting the water way had a buck coming his way it had came across his ground headed to either my ground or maybe the line sitting neighbor land. The line sitting neighbor starts blowing on a grunt and starts rattling trying to pull the deer away to him he knew he was in his stand you’d have to be blind not to see him he wears orange from top to bottom not so sure his shoes are not orange Enough of my crybaby butt But make no mistake I will continue and so will my other neighbor to make every effort to give him hints be it a side by side cutting wood spreading manure Really all we both want is a bit of respect and space so that we can enjoy our land and in this case I don’t fill it’s that much to ask if that was the only opportunity he had to hunt I’d probably get over it like it no but live with it yes I get what your saying…. But as a hunting site/community we can’t openly say we will Harass another hunter because we disagree with his ethics IMO Hopefully you guys can work things out some how…. Good luck! My last post I don’t want to keep sidetracking this thread But who decided I am harassing him you? I’ve had farmers pick corn next farm over when I’ve been in my stand they interfered with my hunt I’ve had farmers working ground up they interfered with my hunt I bought pay taxes upkeep my ground I should be able to chase butterfly’s if I want just because he’s hunting when now does it become harassment ? Should I just sit in my house during hunting season ? Does he have more rights than me because he’s hunting? Is he not harassing me just as much maybe more Why do you fill I’m wrong and not him again he has no reason to do it I could kill just as many deer on his ground the deer use his ground just as much as they do my ground Maybe I am boardline on bashing him and your right probably not the best place to vent but all I’m asking for is just a bit of respect and space and this could easily be achieved again it’s not horn porn or I own the deer I’m happy for him or anyone that gets one it’s a gift we all should treasure It’s a fine line and each of us have that point were we fill it’s right wrong we probably won’t agree I’m sure a few others think I’m wrong that’s ok it’s only my opinion and it’s worth exactly what you paid for it
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Post by pigeonflier on Aug 25, 2022 21:42:42 GMT -5
I get what your saying…. But as a hunting site/community we can’t openly say we will Harass another hunter because we disagree with his ethics IMO Hopefully you guys can work things out some how…. Good luck! My last post I don’t want to keep sidetracking this thread But who decided I am harassing him you? I’ve had farmers pick corn next farm over when I’ve been in my stand they interfered with my hunt I’ve had farmers working ground up they interfered with my hunt I bought pay taxes upkeep my ground I should be able to chase butterfly’s if I want just because he’s hunting when now does it become harassment ? Should I just sit in my house during hunting season ? Does he have more rights than me because he’s hunting? Is he not harassing me just as much maybe more Why do you fill I’m wrong and not him again he has no reason to do it I could kill just as many deer on his ground the deer use his ground just as much as they do my ground Maybe I am boardline on bashing him and your right probably not the best place to vent but all I’m asking for is just a bit of respect and space and this could easily be achieved again it’s not horn porn or I own the deer I’m happy for him or anyone that gets one it’s a gift we all should treasure It’s a fine line and each of us have that point were we fill it’s right wrong we probably won’t agree I’m sure a few others think I’m wrong that’s ok it’s only my opinion and it’s worth exactly what you paid for it It's not what you or I would decide is hunter harassment. It's what the CO would consider hunter harassment. And I would bet money considering what was said you would be the one getting a ticket. There is a difference between farmers working fields and someone driving up and down the line.. Would be the same as you blowing a air horn. And I know for fact how the air horn game plays out.
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Post by esshup on Aug 25, 2022 21:43:01 GMT -5
I searched the 'net, found where Randy did 2 such helicopter hunts but found nothing about him getting in trouble because of it.
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Post by pigeonflier on Aug 25, 2022 21:55:17 GMT -5
November 05. 2006 6:59AM
No ducking law in hunting case Osceola residents charged with harassment of waterfowl hunters.
OUTDOORS: COMMENTARY
LOUIE STOUT
Waterfowler Chris McDonald grew tired of being harassed.
The South Bend resident and his hunting companions have been badgered by a handful of St. Joseph River residents for two years.
"Every time the ducks would fly in or we'd shoot, they'd begin blowing air horns, play loud music, or come out to confront us," said McDonald, a construction worker and avid duck hunter.
"I couldn't deal with it anymore."
McDonald contacted DNR conservation officers by cell phone when a similar incident occurred during the two-day mini-season Oct. 14-15. Before officers arrived, harassing residents went into hiding. When the officers left, a resident boated into McDonald's decoys and began harassing him again.
"He told me he didn't care if he got fined cause he'd pay any fine they threw at him," McDonald said.
Well, he's gonna get a chance to put his money where his mouth is, because McDonald reported the incident again and DNR officials stepped in and caught two residents red-handed.
"I got a call from an officer Friday night suggesting I not hunt the same place on the river," McDonald said. "I knew something was up."
When duck season resumed Saturday morning, two "hunters" took McDonald's spot on the river not far from Baugo Bay. Once the clock ticked to legal shooting hours, they opened up on passing ducks.
It wasn't long before loud music blared from speakers positioned along the shore.
And an air horn blared. Repeatedly.
Meanwhile a tape machine in the duck hunters' boat recorded it all. Unbeknownst to the residents, the hunters were conservation officers Mark Hines and Mike Fox.
On the opposite river bank, officer John Mortimore watched it all from a spotting scope.
"They continued to harass my guys until we called off the operation and went to shore to confront the people," said Mortimore.
Two Osceola residents were cited for violations of Indiana's Hunter Harassment Law. Mortimore wouldn't release their names pending further investigation, but said he believes he has more than enough evidence to get convictions. If so, the harassing residents face fines up to $1,000 and a year in jail.
Mortimore said both parties admitted they were trying to keep the ducks away so they couldn't be hunted.
"I explained to them that was against the law, that McDonald has every right to hunt that section of the river and he was not endangering their life or property," he offered. "Just because you live on a river doesn't mean you own the water or mustn't share the resource."
Mortimore said there are areas of the river where waterfowl hunting would be dangerous and not permitted, but this wasn't one of them.
"People need to educate themselves in regards to hunting activities," Mortimore continued. "Also, if they'd read the history of this country, they'd realize that hunting and trapping is what made this country."
McDonald hopes the ordeal is over and plans to hunt the spot again.
"I didn't want to get anyone in trouble, but they were pushing me to the point I didn't have a choice," he said. "It was either that or I had to hunt someplace else, and this spot is a good one for duck hunting. I wasn't doing anything wrong and am never careless with my gun. I don't take chances."
Mortimore pointed out that the conservation officer's role is to look out for hunters' welfare as well as to check them for hunting violations. Two weeks ago, he took part in a major waterfowl operation in Michiana that targeted waterfowl hunting violators.
"If you live by the edge of the sword, expect to get arrested by the sword," he noted. "That goes for the people who want to interfere with legal sportsmen as well as those who violate our fish and game regulations."
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Post by pigeonflier on Aug 25, 2022 21:58:25 GMT -5
Point being just cause something is happening just a inch past your property line means it's a inch out of your reach. Don't get yourself into a bad situation.
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Post by hornzilla on Aug 26, 2022 3:14:54 GMT -5
I get what your saying…. But as a hunting site/community we can’t openly say we will Harass another hunter because we disagree with his ethics IMO Hopefully you guys can work things out some how…. Good luck! My last post I don’t want to keep sidetracking this thread But who decided I am harassing him you? I’ve had farmers pick corn next farm over when I’ve been in my stand they interfered with my hunt I’ve had farmers working ground up they interfered with my hunt I bought pay taxes upkeep my ground I should be able to chase butterfly’s if I want just because he’s hunting when now does it become harassment ? Should I just sit in my house during hunting season ? Does he have more rights than me because he’s hunting? Is he not harassing me just as much maybe more Why do you fill I’m wrong and not him again he has no reason to do it I could kill just as many deer on his ground the deer use his ground just as much as they do my ground Maybe I am boardline on bashing him and your right probably not the best place to vent but all I’m asking for is just a bit of respect and space and this could easily be achieved again it’s not horn porn or I own the deer I’m happy for him or anyone that gets one it’s a gift we all should treasure It’s a fine line and each of us have that point were we fill it’s right wrong we probably won’t agree I’m sure a few others think I’m wrong that’s ok it’s only my opinion and it’s worth exactly what you paid for it I will leave it at this. First I am sure glad your not my neighbor. I promise we would butt heads. Second you keep asking for respect. Then act this way with a fellow hunter. You sure are not showing respect. So why would he? Have a great season. But remember. Life is give and take.
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Post by span870 on Aug 26, 2022 3:33:17 GMT -5
No dog in this fight but I find this "fence sitting" argument interesting.
You are on your property walking and see a 200" whitetail coming off your neighbors property 200 yards away. He is on a trail that splits in 5 directions as soon as it gets to your property. Do you go 300 yards inside your property line on one of the trails and hope he takes that one or do you pop him as soon as he crosses the line?
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Post by Ahawkeye on Aug 26, 2022 3:48:07 GMT -5
I do not hunt the lines but have heard stories of guys back at the parking area mad because the land owner next to public is walking the line and being loud saying things like "Just checking to see who's hunting on my land...." Someone called the CO he said there was no violation and to have a cup of coffee and go back to hunting. In my opinion a guy can hunt a line as long as he stays legal but that deer might not cooperate after you put a hole in him or her. That's were the trouble starts. If a guy is sitting on the line and facing his own land or public then that might be a better situation. If they are facing your land as treetop described well then that would be irritating for sure.
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Post by treetop on Aug 26, 2022 8:03:28 GMT -5
I searched the 'net, found where Randy did 2 such helicopter hunts but found nothing about him getting in trouble because of it. It may of been a citizen that did it and it ended up on a hunting show, I wish I could find it or remember better but it came down to landing a commercial aircraft on public ground even though it was a private aircraft the second he took money it became a commercial aircraft or along those lines
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Post by treetop on Aug 26, 2022 8:16:57 GMT -5
No dog in this fight but I find this "fence sitting" argument interesting. You are on your property walking and see a 200" whitetail coming off your neighbors property 200 yards away. He is on a trail that splits in 5 directions as soon as it gets to your property. Do you go 300 yards inside your property line on one of the trails and hope he takes that one or do you pop him as soon as he crosses the line? Myself I’d wait till the deer got far enough on to my ground so that I wasn’t shooting in to a fence row were someone maybe sitting but I’m assuming that trees and bushes are in play here as they so often are the second that happened I pull the trigger But being close to the line just like park hunts I’ve went on I’m going to hit high shoulder and drop the deer we’re it stands
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Post by treetop on Aug 26, 2022 9:08:43 GMT -5
My last post I don’t want to keep sidetracking this thread But who decided I am harassing him you? I’ve had farmers pick corn next farm over when I’ve been in my stand they interfered with my hunt I’ve had farmers working ground up they interfered with my hunt I bought pay taxes upkeep my ground I should be able to chase butterfly’s if I want just because he’s hunting when now does it become harassment ? Should I just sit in my house during hunting season ? Does he have more rights than me because he’s hunting? Is he not harassing me just as much maybe more Why do you fill I’m wrong and not him again he has no reason to do it I could kill just as many deer on his ground the deer use his ground just as much as they do my ground Maybe I am boardline on bashing him and your right probably not the best place to vent but all I’m asking for is just a bit of respect and space and this could easily be achieved again it’s not horn porn or I own the deer I’m happy for him or anyone that gets one it’s a gift we all should treasure It’s a fine line and each of us have that point were we fill it’s right wrong we probably won’t agree I’m sure a few others think I’m wrong that’s ok it’s only my opinion and it’s worth exactly what you paid for it I will leave it at this. First I am sure glad your not my neighbor. I promise we would butt heads. Second you keep asking for respect. Then act this way with a fellow hunter. You sure are not showing respect. So why would he? Have a great season. But remember. Life is give and take. No sir we’d be good neighbors I’m honestly a decent person at heart if this guy needed help I’d be standing on his porch asking him what he needed There is a lot more to this than I’ve posted I’ve helped him track deer he said he took on his side but ran on my land yet I couldn’t find any blood hair ground ripped up on his side so here we are tromping around on my ground looking for a spot of blood or hair that I do my best to stay out of How about sitting up a ground blind beside a tripod that’s been sitting there before he started hunting do you not realize you have a guy with a loaded gun 20 yards away has safety ever crossed your mind not that’s my little chunk and no one can hunt by it have at it. I honestly don’t think I could move the tripod if I wanted it’s all grown in with trees now it’s one of the big style not the small types and it just goes on and on with this guy But again it’s not right on the line but it is close when I placed it no one hunted back there Maybe respect was the wrong word how about Courtesy I can’t seem to type what I’m thinking a lot of the time because I do respect him and his land or I’d be doing the same thing Myself and the other neighbor really don’t hassle him I honestly have better things to do with my life than ride a wheeler around to annoy him but I will admit I have on occasion took a ride around the farm but it’s rare. I know I went on and on said I would not post again here I am but for me this is one area I’ll probably disagree with most people but make no mistake I’m 100 percent pro hunter/hunting Anyway Thanks Woody for allowing me to post my views right or wrong Dave
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Post by esshup on Apr 28, 2023 18:16:48 GMT -5
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Post by duff on Apr 28, 2023 18:40:55 GMT -5
Reads like the landowner feels they are losing since they dropped the monetary portion. Did I miss a decision?
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Post by greghopper on Apr 28, 2023 19:36:13 GMT -5
Reads like the landowner feels they are losing since they dropped the monetary portion. Did I miss a decision? A Carbon County jury last year found the four not guilty of criminal trespass and trespassing to hunt in a separate case in state court. As Eshelman’s civil case advances in federal court, both sides have asked the judge to rule at least partly in their favor without a trial.
The hunters want the suit dismissed; Eshelman wants the judge to rule that the men trespassed and for a jury to decide only damages.
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