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Post by goosepondmonster on Mar 20, 2013 13:53:58 GMT -5
Will P&Y or B&C allow the deer killed in preserves to be entered into the record books? Negative.
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Post by throbak on Mar 20, 2013 15:26:04 GMT -5
Timex; <EDIT> First the Loss of Thousands of acres of CRP is acceptable,Then you Take up for High fence operations, Now You justify going to one and in your words Hunt a deer then suggest those that go there are Hunters or Sportsman The only think they get out of is To KILL something and that's just not Right.. There is a HUGE difference in Hunting to Kill and killing in order to have hunted and Billy I am in agreement and not Upset one Bit with your post what upsets me is that some one might see certain Post and think we all think Like Timex, Which could be VERY Damaging to us who are lobbing for More CRP acreage and putting a stop to canned Hunting
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2013 16:07:13 GMT -5
Will P&Y or B&C allow the deer killed in preserves to be entered into the record books? P&Y also doesn't allow crossbow kills. Hows that relate?
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Post by Woody Williams on Mar 20, 2013 16:58:19 GMT -5
When (not if) CWD comes to Indiana it will be in the back of a truck. ..if it already hasn't happened right now. Our wild herd is in contact with an ear tagged "tame deer" that was exposed to CWD in a Pennsylvania "deer farm". This could be the start of Pandora's box...
I recall vividly a video (I still have it in my file) that purportedly showed several incidents of what I would never call "hunting". One deer being "hunted" by a TV star and was in a three acre pen. The guides kept chasing the deer around the pen so the TV star could get a shot at it. Another sequence showed a deer staggering up to a ground blind when the "hunter" shot it with a muzzleloader. Another sequence showed a sick deer being propped up against a tree so the "hunter" could shoot it.Another sequence showed a deer walking/staggering past a bait pile and the "hunter" shooting him in the arse with a blunt and then acting like he made a good shot on the deer.
Yes, this give hunters a bad name...as if the anti-hunters needed more help..
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Post by HuntMeister on Mar 20, 2013 17:26:02 GMT -5
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Post by jjas on Mar 20, 2013 17:36:53 GMT -5
Will P&Y or B&C allow the deer killed in preserves to be entered into the record books? P&Y also doesn't allow crossbow kills. Hows that relate? Two points..... 1. Why aren't preserve kills allowed by B&C and P&Y....... 2. What do crossbows have to do with the first question?
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Post by throbak on Mar 20, 2013 17:46:29 GMT -5
Email sent ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by sakorifle on Mar 20, 2013 17:59:46 GMT -5
it is canned slaughter regardless what anyone says. the problem is timex that things like this the general public honestly believe that is what all hunters do, then they join the anti hunting brigade and before you know it you have a major fight on your hands just to be able to hunt, happened here, take a lesson from it.
Traditional fox hunting in the uk, banned, why, because certain hunts were caught on camera being less than sporting, got on the tv and in the press, an organisation was set up calling themselves the league against cruel sports, they got money from the public and the ears of the members of parliment who cottoned on that they could get votes from it, Fox hunting ended up being banned
It very near fatally wounded the south African hunting income for a while, to the extent were there parliment had to put a stop to canned hunting. Sorry there is no defence for it, it hurts true hunters. I have no interest at all going to these places, and i would be very surprised if any true hunter had. But like i said everyone to there own, sad sad people.
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Post by daneowner on Mar 20, 2013 18:13:26 GMT -5
Probably a poor choice of words used in ffrustration from the attacks on their lifestyle and livelihood. Both sides have said some stupid things that do the sportsmen no real good. Properly monitored deer farms can operate without danger to the resourse. Thousands do nationwide. CWD can come from the wild just as easy as it can from an enclosure. These places can provide a service, such as scent and urine. Most people don't know it, but a lot of taxidermist keep deer for pets as reference. Timex, Would you mind naming a few of the taxidermist you know that have a "pet" deer, I don't know of any so I guess i'm just curious.
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Post by woodswalker56 on Mar 20, 2013 18:57:42 GMT -5
I don't know of any taxidermists with "pet" deers either. They would have to be licensed as gamebreeders and I doubt that it is worth the hassle to have them around for a mere reference when good photo's would probably provide greater detail.
Woody, any chance of getting a copy of the video, or a posting on line?
I found this post on another forum, see below:
He is not My Man Mitch.
Indiana Gov. Mike Pence isn’t too keen on allowing more high-fenced deer-hunting clubs to open in Indiana.
But the new governor says he’s willing to consider legislation that would allow Indiana’s four existing facilties to stay open.
Such legislation, if passed, could end a nearly 8-year-old court fight over whether Indiana should allow fenced-in shooting clubs that sell high-dollar hunts for farm-raised trophy bucks.
"Gov. Pence is concerned with an expansion of high-fence hunting,” his spokeswoman, Kara Brooks, said in an e-mail. “But (he) is keeping an open mind about legislative efforts to permit existing facilities to continue to operate.”
In 2005, the Indiana Department of Natural Resources passed rules banning high-fence hunting, which animal-rights groups and some hunting organizations disparagingly call “canned hunts.”
The DNR deemed the facilities unsporting and a potential disease risk. The clubs sued in response. A judge issued an injunction prohibiting the clubs’ closures, but only four are now doing business in Indiana. The case is still pending.
Legislative efforts to expand high-fence hunting have died in the General Assembly over the years, but Rep. Matt Ubelhor, R-Bloomfield, said Tuesday he may amend a bill to allow more of the hunting clubs. Ubelhor favors the move because it would provide an in-state market for the nearly 400 Indiana farmers who raise deer and elk.
Currently, most of Indiana’s deer farmers sell their bucks to out-of-state hunting clubs, where clients pay up to $25,000 for a chance to kill a buck bred to have abnormally large antlers.
Ubelhor earlier this year was the lead author of a hunting bill that died in committee. It would have set licensing requirements for the hunting clubs, allowed previously operating clubs to reopen and allow hunting at the facilities from August to April, without bag limits.
Ubelhor said he may amend a senate bill he is co-sponsoring in the House to include some of the language from his earlier bill. Under Ubelhor’s bill, a new high-fence clubs would have to be at least 200 acres, and the deer must have adequate cover and space to hide.
Ubelhor said the matter is likely to come up at a hearing Monday at the House’s Committee on Natural Resources.
Call Star Reporter Ryan Sabalow at 317-444-6179. Follow him on twitter at twitter.com/ryansabalow.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2013 19:57:30 GMT -5
Yok, Carter, and most of the masters that place high in the world championships each year. Don't believe it go to Taxinet.com and check it out. Most of those in the taxidermy business support preserve hunting just as much as wild hunting.
The video mentioned was of the Beller enclosure, he was convicted and. Served time for the misdeeds. What happened they was not typical and needed to be stopped.
Sako- I guess you are aware that most of the African safaris are done in high fenced preserves, especially in S. Africa. Much the same as hunts in Texas. Fenced hunts can be sporting but its true all are not. Neither are all wild hunts. How abi ut put and take bird hunts? There are lots of other examples of things tbat can make sportsmen look bad, including spotlighting which a lot of you support.
I don't support high fenced preserves and would never hunt a WT deer in one, but might hunt other species in one. But I wint waste my time working against other hunters just because its different then they way I do it.
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Post by marlin44 on Mar 20, 2013 21:55:43 GMT -5
I dont post much mainly due to fact that i dont care to argue on pointless subjects. This one to me is not pointless. First off i am an environmental scientist with a strong biology background. The ethictics of this subject bother me but dont worry me like diease threat. Below are facts i know about this subject. 1. CWD does not magically appear. I must have a host transport it. (Trucks) Some new research shows crows can carry it in 50 mile radius. 2. CWD is always fatal. No cure no treatment. Can be infected but undetectable for 5 years. Only way to test is to kill animal and test brain matter. 3. CWD prion can stay active in soil (contagious) for at least 30 years. Research has shown that soil incereration at 1500 degrees does not kill it. You cant cook it out of meat then. 4. We still dont know enough about disease. It started in 1960s in Colorado. Thought to have mutated from scrappies in sheep to CWD in deer. Can it mutate again? 5. Go to www.wildlife.org/documents/policy/fact-sheet/captive-cervid-breeding.pdf Look at map on back by USGS and see if there is a possible link to high fence and spread of CWD. 6. Proposed Reg would require minimum of 200 acres total on facility. Most Texas are 2000 or more. Neither are still fair chase, but one is closer. Most deer densities in the feed lots is equal to 200 plus deer per sq mile. 7. Most of our deer farmed currently in indiana are exported. High fenced operation would create more importing. Increased risk of introducing CWD. 8. If or when we get CWD: a. depopulation of high fenced area. Owner files bankrupcy. State pays for his deer. b. depopulation or drastic reduction of wild deer within 10 mile radius of infected deer. may go to 20 miles. c. outlaw mineral licks and feeding in state. e. Drastic depleation of DNR funds for wildlife and land management. Funds diverted to control cwd spread. Your tax dollars and license fees. f. Sportsman get more bad publicity from these so called "hunting" operations. 9. Other topic for you guys to research. Bovine TB. Beef farmers should really look at this one. It will hit you in wallet. Look at Michigan and also look at Franklin co. Indiana. Fact checkers: Wisconson DNR, CWD alliance, BOAH, IDNR, QDMA, USGS, Colorado ST university, Michigan DNR or just google CWD and Bovine TB. Look up cost to Wisconson taxpayers on CWD. Enough rambling. Please look this up do your own research and then submit your opinion to your legislators.
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Post by jackryan on Mar 20, 2013 23:59:34 GMT -5
First off, in most cases it is hunting. As long as the shooting facility has more than the minimum acreage then its not totally 100% aure that you would kill a animal on ever sit. For example, if the pen is 400 acres, its more than a lot of people hunt in the wild. Second, I wouldn't say those that go to these places are not sportsmen. I know one high fence operation that entertains several pro ball players that are normally working during the regular season so they get their fix during the off season at a preserve. Third, you don't have to go to these places if you don't want to. It's NOT hunting and I don't TRUST YOU to put the best interest of the public resource ahead of your own greed. I've seen a few of these facilities and I haven't seen ONE that makes an honest effort to do it, in your words, WELL. They regularly have animals escape and may easily interact with the wild herd through a single chain link fence and under it. It's time the industry was put out of it's misery, exterminated, like the vermin threat it is to hunting and the public resource.
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Post by woodswalker56 on Mar 21, 2013 5:38:33 GMT -5
Gov. Mike Pence open to fenced deer hunting.
Evidently this Star reporter is doing a series on deer farming and pen killing. I wonder how many "hunters" he has interviewed?
Here's his contact info;
Call Star Reporter Ryan Sabalow at (317) 444-6179. Follow him at twitter.com/ryansabalow. ryan.sabalow@indystar.com
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Post by woodswalker56 on Mar 21, 2013 6:03:31 GMT -5
Since this issue comes along every year in the legislature, why don't they put it to a vote and allow all the citizens to weigh in on it?
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Post by sakorifle on Mar 21, 2013 6:25:33 GMT -5
You are right Timex all estates in South Africa are supposed to be STOCK fenced. The one my friend sends clients to is not. The one's that do have stock fences around them are not measured in acres they are measure in lots of miles. Canned hunting is illegal in South Africa, period. any one doing it is breaking the new law. Anyway my mate is heading over there on 31st March lucky man and i was supposed to be going but thought i would give it a miss this year due to the past health problem, next year perhaps then i will try the bow on some plains game.
And by the way the anti's over here are now turning there attention to put and take pheasant shoots, hopefully it will survive until i am gone, but i feel for those hunters that are coming after us. There is no high fences though they fly were they like
That is it, am out of the debate i have given my point of view, i am not going to hold the cats backside to the fire any more, hehehhe. regards Billy
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Post by dadfsr on Mar 21, 2013 6:37:13 GMT -5
I'd say something about a hand tool again but...don't want this thread closed as it's getting really interesting!!!
Billy-Thanks for the world view input!!! We really appreciate your many decades of experience and observations of a totally different world of hunting that most of us can only dream about.
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Post by throbak on Mar 21, 2013 7:40:24 GMT -5
I was at one time a Amish Hauler We went to Hurricane creek near Greensburg Was told that they( the Owners) raise a good Buck keep it Penned till August then turn them loose to be hunted on their leases as free range Deer I am sure this is not an Isolated incident
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Post by jjas on Mar 21, 2013 10:38:15 GMT -5
I personally don't want to kill a buck that was "genetically engineered" and/or raised in a pen just so I can point to my wall and brag to my buddies about the "monster" buck I killed (emphasis on monster)........
This ever increasing "need" for bigger and bigger bucks has turned deer hunting into deer shopping for many people. If you can write the check you can breed it, sell it or kill it.
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Post by 36fan on Mar 21, 2013 11:11:52 GMT -5
1) did anyone else notice the "comments" in both articles have been disabled?
2) If someone wants to pay $25,000 to shoot a farm animal, I don't care. If they are that stupid and have that much extra $ laying around, the deserve to lose $25k. I can make them a deal and arrange for them to shoot a cow for $20,000, AND they will get a lot more meat out from it.
3) STOP CALLING IT HUNTING! It's shooting farm animals.
4) While I don't care if someone shoots farm animals, I don't like the interstate transport of the animals. The American Indians suffered far more deaths from European diseases than from wars with Europeans/European descendents
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