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Post by steve46511 on Aug 11, 2010 0:16:10 GMT -5
Define "need" in a way that accurate for all hunters. You cant
Every hunt is a "success" in some way or another so I "NEED" every opportunity to go out that I have free to do so.
But to answer your question in the method I think you meant it to be asked........I need more than 9 days...........obviously even more than 16 since I didnt fill ALL my bonus county tags.
I could use that as a "NEED" for MORE days.........correct?
I didnt have enough FREE TIME to take all I wanted........less time to legally hunt those bonus deer isnt going to improve upon that.
Therefore, with that reasoning of what I "need'.....I need AT LEAST the standard 16 days AND the december anterless season to see a IMPROVEMENT in the number of does I take, since I have more time to hunt and increase my odds.
Just IMHO, if you introduce "need" into the conversation and use it as a tool for the shorter season then on the same plane why did the bowhunters "NEED" season to start Oct 1 instead of Oct 15th like it did for decades and why did bowhunters "NEED" to hunt during gun season?
No one "needs" the same thing but shortening ANY season is going to be met with a nashing of teeth BECAUSE all of us, regardless of weapon of choice, ENJOY our sport and the TRUE need is enough time to do so.
Longer seasons = more chances to go hunting= more opportunity for shots= more deer taken out of the herd and since we can take MULTIPLE times as many does as the single buck per year per hunter, those "more deer" will primarily be antlerless.
Each and every one of us knows the simplest way to take "a deer" in any area hunted is to hunt as much as possible (so long as you arent spooking the whole shebang). It's a simple process of increasing your odds that has worked in every single endeavor where it is used for more time than any of us have been alive.
It's like fishing...........you cant catch a dang thing sitting at home!
God Bless Steve
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Post by whiteoak on Aug 11, 2010 0:59:40 GMT -5
Very well stated Steve. I think your last statement in regards to fishing rings true with deer hunting. You can't be thinning the herd if season is not in.
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Post by thecommissioner on Aug 11, 2010 2:21:07 GMT -5
Its a fact that 78% (thats avg. of past 5 years) of the modern firearm harvest comes in the first 9 days of firearm season. With less than 22% of the harvest coming from the next 7 days of modern firearm season, you can see that this shortening of the season will affect a much smaller percentage of hunters than you might think. This attitude reminds me of the people who like to quote the old adage, "Work expands to fill the time allotted to do it." Please don't confuse work with recreation.
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Post by throbak on Aug 11, 2010 6:10:42 GMT -5
if most of the last 9days are mostly doe harvest and if it effects ANYONE not getting a deer common sense says its a lose-lose situation to me.
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Post by oldhoyt on Aug 11, 2010 6:30:56 GMT -5
A 16 day season is a 6 day season for a guy that cannot take vacation to hunt. The stakeholders pushing this crap are not in this category.
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Aug 11, 2010 7:48:39 GMT -5
Yes it's a matter of "need" for maximum opportunities for the "working man" dancing around work schedules, holidays, bad weather, & limited hunting days!!!!!!
I kill very few deer after the traditional opening week of gun season over the past 30+ years.
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Post by drs on Aug 11, 2010 7:52:27 GMT -5
During the modern gun season down here in 2008; I got my Buck the first day of the season & my Brother got his on the fourth day. In 2009 I got my 10-pointer on the third day. Since the mid 1980's I've seldom spent more than 5 days Deer hunting during Indiana's or Kentucky's gun seasons.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2010 8:14:39 GMT -5
There are a lot of organized groups in the USA that would love to have NO HUNTING or LESS hunting....I don't think the DNR should be one of them. If they have two options to reach their goals, one being more days afield than the other, they should take the one with the most oppurtunity to their support group.
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Post by swilk on Aug 11, 2010 8:26:01 GMT -5
DNR isnt asking for less hunting ..... less hunting with one weapon type maybe but not less hunting.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2010 8:31:46 GMT -5
You know as well as I do that most hunters gun hunt only and that the DNR also knows that as well. If you shorten those peoples season by half, you are losing a lot of man hours in the field. Yes, it's less hunting....a lot less.
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Post by tickman1961 on Aug 11, 2010 8:41:32 GMT -5
One Weapon?
A shotgun is not a muzzleloader no matter how you slice it....
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Post by swilk on Aug 11, 2010 8:45:25 GMT -5
Fair enough .... 2 weapon types.
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Post by tickman1961 on Aug 11, 2010 8:53:34 GMT -5
IDNR needs to stop talking about herd reduction when their plans are geared toward 'trophy management"
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Post by steve46511 on Aug 11, 2010 8:57:53 GMT -5
On the subject of how many hunt with what. Here is a clip from the survery the state took online.
While I commend them for having it, and rather honked off at myself because I didnt see it in time to reply within the one week of it lasting, I had to chuckel a bit a the very beginning where they seem to be "leaving the door open" to discredit the results right off the bat.
It is a direct copy and paste with only underlined, bold and italics options added by myself:
"A total of 9,516 responses were received.
“Because online surveys pose several problems in obtaining scientifically valid results, this questionnaire will be best served as a general indicator for gauging public support or opposition for various deer regulation alternatives,” said Mark Reiter, director of the Division of Fish & Wildlife. “The DFW will be using this information, along with input from a deer stakeholder committee and public input given as part of the administrative rule process, to promulgate a deer rule package.”
The questionnaire was available online from April 19-25. Questions were formatted based on suggestions and recommendations from the deer stakeholder committee to meet the objective of focused deer herd reduction in a strategically targeted manner that would more adequately balance ecological, recreational and economic needs of the citizens of Indiana.
Before being placed online, the questionnaire was reviewed by a social scientist from Purdue University’s Department of Forestry and Natural Resources to ensure the integrity of each question.
The questionnaire was designed using an online provider (www.surveymonkey.com).
Slightly more than 93 percent of the survey respondents said they were Indiana deer hunters while 4.6 said they were not and just over 2 percent left the question blank.
Approximately 5,300 respondents identified themselves as resident license buyers; 2,600 as lifetime license buyers; 700 as landowners exempt from license purchase; 300 non-resident license buyers; 50 youth license buyers, and 10 military-exempt license holders.
Additional survey results showed that:
–Eight of 10 respondents said they use shotguns to hunt deer; 74 percent use archery equipment, 71 percent muzzleloader, 20 percent handguns, 19 percent rifles, and 10 percent crossbows. Of those respondents, 27.5 percent said they use only firearms, and nearly 5 percent said they use only archery equipment. "
It makes it quite obvious how many, percentage wise, these proposals will effect and also makes it clear that the bulk of us, being deer hunters first, and a particular weapon elitist second...........hunt with several weapons and in several seasons.
my 2 cents anyway.
Again,I am NOT pointing fingers at anything except the fact that the shortening of firearm and ML will effect MOST of us with the stats being 71 percent, 74 percent, and 80 percent of those replying using a ML, bow, and shotgun, respectively.
God Bless Steve
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Post by firstwd on Aug 11, 2010 9:10:34 GMT -5
How about this? I will take 9 days of modern gun, 9 days of muzzle loader, and 9 days of "anterless only" just as long as I get to pick which days. That way I can plan my season around the responsibilities of my life.
Any takers for this one?
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Post by steve46511 on Aug 11, 2010 9:51:27 GMT -5
"How about this? I will take 9 days of modern gun, 9 days of muzzle loader, and 9 days of "anterless only" just as long as I get to pick which days. That way I can plan my season around the responsibilities of my life. Any takers for this one? " For sure, if we COULD pick our own season individually it would be pretty nice. ROFL. Maybe we could punch in online. HAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA! Cool thought at least. I'll agree that spread out there is an advantage "FOR ME" yet again, that is for me and my free time and is STILL........"less" than just adding the antlerless Dec season and leaving the others ALONE. IF, and only if increasing the doe kill IS high on the priority list. I'll hunt what they give us but.......keep in mind it's only shortening a particular type of weapon used and with all the "anti gun" BS out there...........this smacks of yet another step DOWN for the use of such and their "reasons" are not justified, nor can they give us one IMHO that IS justifiable after decades and decades of INCREASING limits and other seasons. Their supposed purpose for doing so should allow of the addition of the late december season for antlerless and few would be upset. That is what we would expect with the reasons given..........but........shortening ANY season AT THIS POINT simply makes no sense, and is STILL targeting one type of weapon. That weapon's use has proved year in and year out for decades to be "the one" that most quicky effects the total kill due to number of hunters, ability to shoot further, etc etc. If against those of us whom are "standing by our guns" (pun intended, LOL) imagine if you will a completely EQUAL split of one month archery, one month firearm, and one month ML. THEN, it would be the bowhunters (please recall I am one with more than half my 60 plus deer taken with traditional archery equipment) whom would cry FOUL! NOT putting down bowhunters but think for yourself the total havoc that proposal would bring!!..........and from what section of hunters. I've been a bowhunter all my life yet know of more gun hunters that picked up a bow DUE TO the length of season total they can hunt. While all of us can hunt with our choice of weapon, or all of them, it is the bow season that has gotten repeated "additions" over and over again. Take some of that away and see world war three erupt yet taking away a full 40 percent of the firearm season for a buck..............and that's acceptable? IMHO it should be ALL of us standing up for ALL seasons having any kind of "cut back" proposal, UNLESS the herd warrants LESS deer taken and THEN the cutbacks should be universal for all. Cutting back time in the most "productive" season as far as taking deer out is simply lunacy AND completely unfair to more than 25 percent of our state's hunters that hunt ONLY with a shotgun. That, my, friends is a LOT of toes to step on without a crisp, clear, LOGICAL reason. God Bless Steve
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Post by oldhoyt on Aug 11, 2010 10:09:22 GMT -5
During the modern gun season down here in 2008; I got my Buck the first day of the season & my Brother got his on the fourth day. In 2009 I got my 10-pointer on the third day. Since the mid 1980's I've seldom spent more than 5 days Deer hunting during Indiana's or Kentucky's gun seasons. I will never tell anyone how much they should hunt, as it is a matter of personal choice. There are plenty of guys that hunt until they "get their deer" and that's it. Whatever works for you. I hunt when the season is open. Heck, you can't hunt when it's closed, so might as well hunt. Beats watching TV. Perhaps I like to hunt more than the average guy, but I've never NOT hunted more than 5 days in a gun season. I hunt the weekends, both days, and take a day off work here or there too. I've even gone out when I knew I had no intention of shooting a deer. But, that's just me (and probably a lot of others like me).
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Post by omegabl on Aug 11, 2010 10:43:59 GMT -5
Define "need" in a way that accurate for all hunters. You cant Every hunt is a "success" in some way or another so I "NEED" every opportunity to go out that I have free to do so. But to answer your question in the method I think you meant it to be asked........I need more than 9 days...........obviously even more than 16 since I didnt fill ALL my bonus county tags. A++ Steve Nail on the head I could use that as a "NEED" for MORE days.........correct? I didnt have enough FREE TIME to take all I wanted........less time to legally hunt those bonus deer isnt going to improve upon that. Therefore, with that reasoning of what I "need'.....I need AT LEAST the standard 16 days AND the december anterless season to see a IMPROVEMENT in the number of does I take, since I have more time to hunt and increase my odds. Just IMHO, if you introduce "need" into the conversation and use it as a tool for the shorter season then on the same plane why did the bowhunters "NEED" season to start Oct 1 instead of Oct 15th like it did for decades and why did bowhunters "NEED" to hunt during gun season? No one "needs" the same thing but shortening ANY season is going to be met with a nashing of teeth BECAUSE all of us, regardless of weapon of choice, ENJOY our sport and the TRUE need is enough time to do so. Longer seasons = more chances to go hunting= more opportunity for shots= more deer taken out of the herd and since we can take MULTIPLE times as many does as the single buck per year per hunter, those "more deer" will primarily be antlerless. Each and every one of us knows the simplest way to take "a deer" in any area hunted is to hunt as much as possible (so long as you arent spooking the whole shebang). It's a simple process of increasing your odds that has worked in every single endeavor where it is used for more time than any of us have been alive. It's like fishing...........you cant catch a dang thing sitting at home! God Bless Steve A++ Steve Nail on the head!!!!
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Post by deerman1 on Aug 11, 2010 11:51:31 GMT -5
DNR isnt asking for less hunting ..... less hunting with one weapon type maybe but not less hunting. that is not true at all Swilk The math is simple and so is the intent. there are only 78,000 bow hunters in this state by tag sales there are another 175,000 who hunt with guns or ML sorry there is a dead loss of days i.e. opportunity for anyone who shoots a firearm. Also there is a dead loss of opportunity for buck hunting .Sorry anti hunting agenda is plain and simple here its TDM covered over with smoke and mirrors. The antis reading these proposals and posts are rolling right now .Since those we hire to protect our animals and hunting heritage are taking it away one season cut ,one day at a time,and one restriction at a time.. This will sting some some it will not and I do not care since people are what they are in this world ."If a guy is not good enough or smart enough to manage his land or trigger finger to hunt and grow or mange toward trophy deer then why should all the rest of the hunters in this state suffer for their" Yep its my own Quote and inability,impatience ,or incompetence as a hunter /deer manger/and patience manger is not my or the next guys problem suffer for them or get better at what ailes your hunting on your own..
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Post by drs on Aug 11, 2010 11:53:57 GMT -5
During the modern gun season down here in 2008; I got my Buck the first day of the season & my Brother got his on the fourth day. In 2009 I got my 10-pointer on the third day. Since the mid 1980's I've seldom spent more than 5 days Deer hunting during Indiana's or Kentucky's gun seasons. I will never tell anyone how much they should hunt, as it is a matter of personal choice. There are plenty of guys that hunt until they "get their deer" and that's it. Whatever works for you. After I harvest my Deer; I then return to hunting Squirrels and/or Rabbits.
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