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Post by hunter480 on Aug 17, 2006 20:05:28 GMT -5
Thanks Chucker- If not for support from all the sportsmen there is no way we could have gotten where we are. It was a great feeling to see 3 out of 4 people in the public meetings were sportsmen and property owners there to protect our rights. It was also funny to see a handfull of uneducated hunters in the old ladies row. Anyway- If our hunting rights and hunting heritage is not worth fighting for then what is ! Gundude- What you forgot to mention was that I personally have had MORE members from the Indiana Sporting groups hunt my place than has ever spoke against us during this entire ordeal. That alone tells you where you stand with your old ladies. The sooner you accept the fact that sportsmen do and are going to enjoy the hunting opportunities on preserves the sooner you can leave the old ladies row. For now- Sit back and thank the rest of us real sportsmen for protecting your rights as a sportsmen annd landowners, even if you are not smart enough to realize it. You are Welcome !!! The FACTS that you keep eluding to are what made us sportsmen prevail. On here you can say what you wish and it gets posted. When you discuss this with the people that matter only facts that can be proven are allowed in the discussion. That is why you play on the computer and the rest of us handle things and look out for the sportsmen. Hunting preserves are for those who wish to participate. If you do not wish to participate then you would never know they existed unless you look at a magazine or watch a hunting show. It wasn`t hunters who supported you, it was the same guys who would hunt from their sofa by clicking a mouse to fire a rifle if they could. You can spin any ol` way you like, but penned hunts aren`t FAIR CHASE, and you can quibble all you want, but saying it doesn`t make it so. And the way you`re on here squawking, it`s obvious even YOU feel there`s something to prove here. As the Bard said: "Me thinks he doth protest too much".
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Post by gundude on Aug 17, 2006 20:29:56 GMT -5
Thanks Chucker- If not for support from all the sportsmen there is no way we could have gotten where we are. It was a great feeling to see 3 out of 4 people in the public meetings were sportsmen and property owners there to protect our rights. It was also funny to see a handfull of uneducated hunters in the old ladies row. Anyway- If our hunting rights and hunting heritage is not worth fighting for then what is ! Gundude- What you forgot to mention was that I personally have had MORE members from the Indiana Sporting groups hunt my place than has ever spoke against us during this entire ordeal. That alone tells you where you stand with your old ladies. The sooner you accept the fact that sportsmen do and are going to enjoy the hunting opportunities on preserves the sooner you can leave the old ladies row. For now- Sit back and thank the rest of us real sportsmen for protecting your rights as a sportsmen annd landowners, even if you are not smart enough to realize it. You are Welcome !!! The FACTS that you keep eluding to are what made us sportsmen prevail. On here you can say what you wish and it gets posted. When you discuss this with the people that matter only facts that can be proven are allowed in the discussion. That is why you play on the computer and the rest of us handle things and look out for the sportsmen. Hunting preserves are for those who wish to participate. If you do not wish to participate then you would never know they existed unless you look at a magazine or watch a hunting show. Man Spike you are almost as good as Bill Clinton. Tell them same old tired worn out song and dance till you even believe it yourself! You have yet to address the positions of all the major national Organizations listed. You have yet to address the public statements of all the Pro Sportsman Organizations of this State AND by YOUR logic and reasoning this very site is ANTI_HUNTING,ANTI -SPORTSMAN and its membership supports HSUS! Now, Nobody here in their right mind would by into that twisted logic. Your claim of victory based on the overwhelming support of " Real sportsmen " is absured. The very fact that the majority of the posts in this thread are against such practices in our State is evidence enough to prove that fact. The only reason you or anyone else will be allowed to continue operating has nothing to do with the Support of your so called " sportsmen" and alot to do with back room political deals. Just another example in our society where ethics are put on the back burner. Spin away Spike but I don't think anyone is going to buy into it.
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Post by hoyt1166 on Aug 17, 2006 21:05:32 GMT -5
Spike, Since I've asked you to name the major sporting organizations that support your cause and you've been on since I've asked you this, I can only assume that you do not have that type of support. Since you have referred to those against your cause as uneducated, you had a perfect opportunity to educate yet you threw it by the wayside. In all actuality, your refusal to answer is an education in and of itself. That education would be that your word is no good. Again, I'll ask you to either put up or shut up about the support of major organizations for your cause. If you cannot, then please be civil enough not to use that as part of your argument. Now, in all fairness, I'm dead set against them personally. I've had "friends" in the business and have seen things that go on in these enclosures. In both cases, what I saw disgusted me personally. You say that yours is not like that. Even if it isn't, that gives me a 66% sickening rate. While I refuse to tell anyone what they can or cannot do, I will refuse to call it hunting or fight for it's existence. Am I calling you out personally? Perhaps so but no more so than you do by referring to those against your cause as being uneducated. Actually, I'm not even sure why you post on here. All you do is stir the pot and turn people off with your condescending tone. I don't think you're gaining any new advocates and risk the support you may already have. From a business point of view, it's bad business. I'm not telling you you shouldn't post, just telling you that if I were you, I'd try to win people over with honey rather than the vinegar you're putting out now. Just bad business in my humble opinion. But to my original point, why do you refuse to name the large sportsmens organizations you so readily pointed to in your previous posts? I await your reply.
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Post by lugnutz on Aug 17, 2006 21:16:21 GMT -5
Not defending spike, but isn't it some proof of the larger groups of sportsmen that are backing canned hunts?
Lug
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Post by hoyt1166 on Aug 17, 2006 22:05:29 GMT -5
Not defending spike, but isn't it some proof of the larger groups of sportsmen that are backing canned hunts? Lug Not any more than Soldier of Fortune putting an ad in Playboy. If you've got the money, that's all they care about. When I consider large sportsmens organizations, I think Pope and Young, Boone and Crockett, all the major conservation organizations (PF, Du, QU, etc) and the like. They put ads for Viagra-like pills in Field and Stream, etc. Doesn't mean the magazine supports the advertisers, just willing to take their money as it is a business. In fact, that's why you'll often read "The views expressed in this message are not necessarily shared by this magazine" or something to that effect. It's an escape clause for the organization. Bottom line, for most of the magazines, it's all about the money. No different than a lot of companies or government for that matter.
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Post by raporter on Aug 17, 2006 22:25:39 GMT -5
RAPORTER..... Evidently you never hunted inside the JPG when it was open because the deer there was just as WILD as any other deer.Like I said I DO NOT believe in hunting for "pinned up" deer or anything else but things were quite different at JPG due to the size of the facility. Woah there Hoss. I have hunted inside JPG and they are bred in the wild deer unlike those inside the pay for big rack places which are raised like cattle just so some dodo with more money than skill can put a "trophy" on his wall. Besides as anyone who has ever hunted there knows there are lots of places where the deer go in and out of JPG.
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Post by spike on Aug 18, 2006 7:43:44 GMT -5
Hoyt- Don't take this wrong - But open your eyes ! This site offers a few loud mouths to speak their BS as if it were true. Most people do not fall into pitting sportsmen against sportsmen. No matter how you add it up there was ONLY 78 people in the entire State showed up to oppose hunting preserves (FACT). MOST of those were direct members of the Humane Society (FACT). Don't mention the emails unless you have copies of each and every one with IP addresses and can PROVE how many were sent by 4 people like I can.(FACT)
What you refuse to "see" is the fact that most sportsmens support the well run hunting preserves. Safari Club international and MOST of the organizations Gundude listed support the preserve industry as well. Watch the shows hunting behind fence and look at their sponsors. Gundude and misguided people like him like to ask the question - Do you support canned hunting - without giving a definition. Everyone, including us are on the list not supporting canned hunting.
As for support on here - There is more support here than spoke against us so don't worry about good business practices. I have had numerous emails and phone converations with guys on here wanting to make sure the Gundude and those like him do not speak for them. The loudmouths get the stage, but they don't get the respect !
We should let this thread die but remember this. NOTHING exist in the world unless there is a demand for it. If Sportsmen did not demand the right to hunt whether it be behind fence or open range they would not exist. This simple statement PROVES your points and twisted beliefs are not support by all. Even the members of the Sporting Groups do not know they are supposed to be against preserves, now what does that tell you. With only 6% of the Population being hunters the preserves certainly could not make it if the majority of the 6% were not in support.
We will let the facts speak for themselves and they can be proven by the events of recent. Just last year three more State took measures to protect the hunting heritage by protecting the preserves. Gundude can spin all he wants but when the dust settles he will see where he stands- across from the sportsmens who were victorious.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 18, 2006 7:57:24 GMT -5
Hoyt- Don't take this wrong - But open your eyes ! This site offers a few loud mouths to speak their BS as if it were true. Most people do not fall into pitting sportsmen against sportsmen. . "This site" also offers to YOU a place to espouse your views in this so called debate.. I know that several other sites do not even let you post on there. So please stop this "This site offers a few loud mouths to speak their BS" stuff. If we were stopping "BS" from being posted on here your posts would get cut quite a bit. We are not the truth police and let the debators point out the falsehoods of the other side.
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Post by gundude on Aug 18, 2006 8:06:54 GMT -5
WOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO! Man you can't buy any better entertainment than this!. OK, Spike 4 E-mails? FACT? ? Really? You can prove that? I know of more than that from this board aloan! I think we need to call Bill O'Rielly in on this one because you are defenitly in the "Spin Zone" Spike. As far as Respect goes Spike, some may not like what I have to say from time to time but they still respect me for being honest about what I am saying. Perhaps you should start a poll on here to validatethe majority of support and respect you have from the members of this site. You might even want to consider doing it on the other sites as well. How bout it Spike? You can even have a catagory that says " Gundude is a misguided idiot Peta lovin HSUS member!" I dont care. And on it goes..........................
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Post by birddog on Aug 18, 2006 8:38:33 GMT -5
Raporter.. When did they start hunting "Wild" deer behind fences?
Above is what you stated earlier,and I said that the deer inside JPG are wild deer,no if,and's or butt's about it.
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Post by rmc on Aug 18, 2006 9:10:37 GMT -5
High fence killing pens, zoos, whatever you prefer to call them are for people who 1. don't want to spend the time to harvest a mature buck in the fair chase wild. 2. Aren't smart enough to harvest a mature buck in the fair chase wild. or 3. are to lazy to harvest a buck in the fair chase wild. There is no "canned hunting" in the wild. I saw the video on "The Hunters Journal"( should be called the shooters journal since there was no hunting involved) filmed in a high fence zoo in Southern Indaina and it was a FREAKIN JOKE. That was a canned hunt if there ever was one.
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Post by chicobrownbear on Aug 18, 2006 9:14:10 GMT -5
If they continue I would like to see a quarter inch hole drilled in each antler of each deer taken rule.
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Post by raporter on Aug 18, 2006 9:20:57 GMT -5
Raporter.. When did they start hunting "Wild" deer behind fences? Above is what you stated earlier,and I said that the deer inside JPG are wild deer,no if,and's or butt's about it. Birddog you are missing the whole point. Just because there is a fence around JPG it is not a "High Fence" place. I am well aware that the deer in JPG are true wild deer unlike the stocked "racks" that are imported by the deer ****s. I believe my 40+ years of hunting wild deer speaks for itself as many on here are well aware. I am also one of those who attended meetings and watched as the bussed in Amish families stood up and supported Spikes industry. Also the only Humane Society I saw were from the Jasper HS who were in support of fair chase hunting. Now this was the HS not the HSUS, big difference.
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Post by spike on Aug 18, 2006 10:20:38 GMT -5
Gundude- Good example of why you are so misled and uninformed. My post (read slowly) talks about how many emails that 4 individuals sent in. I will help you a little more. Some of the Anit's (4) sent in "numerous" email from the same location to make it appear there was opposition to the preserves. I keep forgetting you have no clue what is really going on with this subject.
Woody- When people like gundude can say what he says and MOST people know what he says is 100% false when it comes to hunting preserves he must be corrected. I did not attack him personally, just his lies and I can PROVE it unlike him. By the way you are wrong about the "several" other sites stuff- please do not jump to conclusions ! I have contact with a lot of people on here wanting to know what is going on so that is why I post here when I get a chance. We are all amused by the handfull of people who THINK they know whats going on while the rest of us work on solutions.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 18, 2006 10:26:57 GMT -5
Gundude- Good example of why you are so misled and uninformed. My post (read slowly) talks about how many emails that 4 individuals sent in. I will help you a little more. Some of the Anit's (4) sent in "numerous" email from the same location to make it appear there was opposition to the preserves. I keep forgetting you have no clue what is really going on with this subject. Woody- When people like gundude can say what he says and MOST people know what he says is 100% false when it comes to hunting preserves he must be corrected. I did not attack him personally, just his lies and I can PROVE it unlike him. By the way you are wrong about the "several" other sites stuff- please do not jump to conclusions ! I have contact with a lot of people on here wanting to know what is going on so that is why I post here when I get a chance. We are all amused by the handfull of people who THINK they know whats going on while the rest of us work on solutions. Whatever, spike. Go put up a post on one of the other Indiana sites or bowsite Indiana forum and we will see if you really can or not.. Be very careful in calling people liars on here. You can attack what they post and attempt to disprove it, but calling people liars is bordering on a personal attacks. BTW - you have a PM
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Post by indianahick on Aug 18, 2006 10:48:57 GMT -5
Birddog you are from southeast. You should know how large Jefferson Proving Grounds was and how it was employed. Was or is it fenced. Most definitely, exterior. no interior at least when I hunted there in the 80's. Each hunting area was divided by a unpaved road (if you could call them that). Each of the area were several acres in size. And only half of the grounds were open to be hunted. The closed still could have had live un exploded ordnance. There was lots of old rusty junk on the open side.
Anyway comparing JPG to a high fenced penned hunting area of 3 acres of so is like comparing a grape to a grapefruit. after all they are both called grape.
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Post by birddog on Aug 18, 2006 11:49:48 GMT -5
When did they start hunting "Wild" deer behind fences?
Again.. I posted ABOVE what was said by another person and that was what I made my comment about..nothing more !!!
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 18, 2006 12:52:53 GMT -5
My apologies to everyone else. I thought birddog was a fair chase hunter, my mistake. I haven't followed you two's excahnge all that closely, but going back and reading a few posts it appeared you were both on the same side in this OR am I confused? Now you say this? .
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Post by birddog on Aug 18, 2006 13:01:56 GMT -5
No WOODY you're not confused but SOMEONE ELSE sure the heck is.........
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Post by chicobrownbear on Aug 18, 2006 13:06:20 GMT -5
This thread is rediculous. State your intentions on the matter in your signature line like others have done and post something constructive elsewhere. Nevermind which side you are on, you will never change the minds of the other. The best intentioned discussion thread on high fences and OBR turn into turd slings within 5 posts. Enough. Finish peeing on each other in PM's and then be friends. Or else I'll start posting pics of Richard Simmons again.
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