|
Post by Russ Koon on Mar 1, 2013 17:48:22 GMT -5
Hmmm....OK, dbd870, you got me curious enough to check that out on the net.
Spent a couple of hours finding out some interesting stuff, some of it surprising, but still haven't found definite verification or refutation of your statement.
The comparisons that I found on penetration of simulated walls that included shotguns in the comparisons were limited to slugs and 00 buck loads.
The .223 loads in the tests that seemed to be accurately done did indeed mostly penetrate less through walls than either 00 or slugs, and also less than any of the pistol rounds tested.
Some other testing I encountered while seeking the applicable testing demonstrated the viability of standard target loads in 7 1/2 shot as defense loads INSIDE the home, though, and none of the penetration testing compared those.
I was surprised by the over-penetration threat being so low when using the .223 in light HP or SP loadings. Guess I should have been less surprised, since I used to have buddies that shot prairie dogs and crows at 400 yards or so with extremely fast little bullets that would disintegrate if they hit a blade of grass en route. I never got into that myself, and didn't take the effect of the speed into account in reducing the bullet's ability to endure and overpenetrate.
Sure is easy to blow an entire afternoon researching stuff and watching some entertaining u-tube shooting demonstrations. I need to get off this chair and get something useful done now, but I'll probably continue to look for more such comparisons soon. It's an interesting subject.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Mar 1, 2013 13:22:58 GMT -5
Well, guess we'll have to just disagree on that one, then. I'd still trust the wife's ability to kill or otherwise stop an intrusion by two or less bad guys using the double that was so simple and intuitive over even the pump, and I'd still want the scattergun over a rifle for defending a thousand square feet surrounded by innocent civilians.
Certainly the areas defended, the surroundings, and the training and physical abilities of the defender have a bearing on the best tool to use. And I'm completely in favor of each individual being able to choose freely in deciding which is best for him and his family.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Mar 1, 2013 11:40:47 GMT -5
After more researching of mistletoe, that may be the answer. At least that does appear to be a bunch of twigs in the branches and roughly the size and shape we saw.
The ones we were seeing all looked to be just the twigs of the tree they were in, growing into a ball shape around 14 to 16 inches in diameter. They also looked like they were sitting on the topside of the branch. And we didn't see any with leaves , they were all just as bare and dark as the tree they were in.
I should have stopped for a few pics. I thought they would be kinda hard to describe in a way that would convey the actual way they looked, but it has turned out to be even tougher than I expected.
Don't know if I can get my buddy to stop and get a pic on his way back down there for turkey season or not. He's not Old Order Amish, but pretty close when it comes to electronic gadgets, and he's always hesitant to interrupt the trip for such tomfoolery as as eating or gas until it becomes a necessity 8^)
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 28, 2013 17:10:21 GMT -5
Woody, I agree more is always better if you need 'em. But the way the wife was shooting that double from the hip, I think the first two bad guys through the door would be in serious trouble, and having to step over their remains would likely discourage their friends 8^).
The Ithaca side-by-side was a single trigger, so the two shots were available without even needing to shuck the pump, just pull the trigger again.
I think after shooting my pump gun later, she would handle it just fine, too. But at the time, she really wasn't into shooting for fun yet, and the simpler and more foolproof for the non-shooter in an emergency the better. Her accuracy shooting from the hip, or more accurately from the waist-high hold, was plenty for a twenty-foot shot, and that's about as far away as anyone could get in the house we had then and still be inside. I didn't want her shooting at them if they were outside anyway. Nothing out there that they could steal that amounted to much, and no need for legal hassles unless definitely a life-threatening situation.
I'd prefer the Mossberg pump, and would prefer an eight-shot tube, already have a 22" barrel on it. Probably a tactical flashlight would be worthwhile, too. But I haven't spent the dough for those improvements. Pretty tame neighborhood here. If it was rougher, I'd spring for them.
She never had to use any of the weapons. She did sit up one night in her rocking chair until I got home with the double across her lap and the very young wife of the guy across the street nursing her bruises on the couch. Seems he had been drinking and knocked her around some, and she had come to the wife (they were already friends) for safety.
I asked her if she would have been able to use the gun if he'd have barged in. She just said "Yes", in a tone that left no doubt in my mind.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 28, 2013 16:26:35 GMT -5
Metamorahunter, I remember seeing those names on the signs coming into the towns. A girl I went to school with married a Strunk, and I kind of got a chuckle out of the Pine Knot name, being almost Hollywood-country, like our own Gnawbone, or the the township where I finished school, Beanblossom.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 28, 2013 16:21:32 GMT -5
Actually, much more familiar with hawk nests than with mistletoe. I didn't even know that mistletoe grew in balls up in the trees like that until seeing it on the net after GPM's suggestion above. But I've seen hawk nests all my life. These were definitely not nests, but something growing up there into the ball shaped objects.
I think the damage from insects is probably going to be the most likely cause, if we ever do find out.
Looking forward to the dendrologist's reply. I never knew there was a job known as dendrologist, either 8^).
Learning something every day. Trouble is, I forget two somethings most days.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 28, 2013 14:03:45 GMT -5
Woody, these weren't solid like the oak galls, but rather round balls formed by the twigs, about 14' or so diameter. The twigs themselves that formed the ball may have been a quarter inch diameter on down to to very small.
GPM , that's sorta my guess as well. Just seemed right from their locations and distribution.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 28, 2013 13:38:25 GMT -5
Checked out mistletoe pics I could find. They look like they tend to hang below the branches they are growing on. The balls we saw were about the size of the mistletoe, but looked like they were growing more atop the branch, and had more sturdy twig growth forming the ball. There no leave or greenery to be seen on the ball-shaped growths, just twigs.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 28, 2013 13:27:35 GMT -5
Looked quite dark against the sky. Appeared to be twigs of the trees they were growing on, rather than a parasitic invader, but couldn't be sure.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 28, 2013 13:03:56 GMT -5
I should add that the numbers of these ball-shaped growths varied from one or two per tree to maybe twenty on a few larger and older trees.
My guess was some sort of result from injury by a parasite insect, but that's only a guess.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 28, 2013 12:59:44 GMT -5
Just back from a trip with a buddy to Big South Fork Rec Area in Tenn.
We passed through KY and from around Lexington down to Somerset on 27, mostly, kept noticing trees with strange looking round things in their limbs that appeared to be comprised of twigs that were grown into round balls of dense growth, about half again the size of basketballs. We could still easily see through the round twig formations, but they were dense enough to be very obvious among the leafless branches.
Couldn't determine if all the trees with these growths in their limbs were the same variety or not. Most appeared as though they could be, and were usually maybe eight or ten inch diameter trees that my buddy thought looked like ash. A few were larger diameter older trees and appeared darker and somewhat "gnarly" in their upper trunks.
They were both in roadside areas and draws and in yards.
Couldn't see any vines or alien growths going up the trunks, the balls of twigs appeared to be the twigs of the trees themselves rather some attached parasite plant.
We were curious but didn't have time to stop or any idea where to find the info to satisfy our curiosity. Didn't notice any more such balls of twig growth as we continued home through Louisville.
Anyone know what we were seeing?
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 28, 2013 11:36:55 GMT -5
I was stuck on night shift the first several years of my career in Indy. The first weapon I showed the wife how to shoot in home defense was a nine-shot .22 semi-auto pistol.
After a while, I read about a couple of cases in fairly quick succession where the crime victim attempted to defend themselves with .22's. and the intruders either continued into the dwelling and were able to do considerable harm after being hit repeatedly, or were able to escape after multiple hits. IIRC, the intruders were high on something at the time, which probably aided their ability to continue.
I had recently bought a nice 12 gauge side by side bird gun with IC and modified chokes and 26" barrels. Took the wife out to the forestry to a deserted area and showed how to operate the gun (not much to show...safety was right there on the tang and just needed to be pushed forward, one trigger to pull). I shot it one-handed with a heavy load in it to demonstrate that the kick wasn't anything to be afraid of, then dropped in a couple of low brass 7 1/2's and had her give it a try with both hands holding the gun at waist level.
She asked what to shoot at, and there happened to be one-pound coffee can near our feet in a small unofficial dump area, so I picked it up and gave it a good toss down the dirt two-track, saying "hit this".
I'd expected her to wait until it was sitting still, but she nailed it with the first barrel as it hit the ground twenty feet away and sent it scooting farther down the trail, and got it with the second barrel before it stopped .
I retrieved the can and congratulated her on completing her training, and we went to breakfast.
I don't like or respect Joe Biden or his boss, and disagree with the vast majority of everything I've ever heard him say. However, I agree with him on this one part of this one issue: I think a twelve gauge double is the most fearsome and effective weapon for home defense, especially in the hands of someone who has little or no desire to shoot for fun or to take additional training.
It stops intruders more rapidly and surely at the ranges involved in a situation with someone inside the house with you, and is extremely simple to operate and the barrel shows both the operator and the intruder where the weapon is aimed.
It's also probably the safest weapon to keep handy and semi-ready if there are kids in the house. It's big enough that it won't be lost in the back of the sock drawer (or was it the nightstand?), the ammo can be kept separately and is also big enough to be more difficult to lose, and the loading is as simple and instinctive as can be, just one lever there, and it opens the gun, just one way to put the ammo in, and that's obvious, and it cocks itself when you shut the gun, which is very obviously the next step.
Wife has shot a variety of guns since and even got into archery and bowhunting with me for a spell, and she's comfortable now with any weapon in the house except my ML's, but I think she'd still just as soon have that side-by-side in her hands if some bad guy is coming through the door or window at night. And I'd also feel more assured of her safety if that's the weapon she had.
I'm pretty sure she would even have the good sense in such a situation to not follow Joe's advice on technique, but if she did get carried away and miss her intended target, the neighbors next door and the ones across the street would be in much less danger of becoming collateral damage as well.
So what if Joe did get one little part of it right....does that weaken our arguments against all the stuff he got wrong?
Not at all.
But if we are suckered into giving erroneous advice just in order to say the opposite of what Joe says, we are placing our own other arguments in a weaker light.
Joe is no rocket scientist, but he's been to a few arguments and knows a few things about manipulating a crowd. I think we'd be better served by adhering to the facts and even conceding some truth to the part of his argument that does make sense, rather than letting him rope-a-dope us into a position of arguing something just as silly from an opposing side.
We should definitely stand our ground....but watch where we're stepping in doing so.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 27, 2013 14:12:50 GMT -5
It's not a myth. Google "snakes guam" and check it out for yourself.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 23, 2013 13:17:49 GMT -5
The plan is to drop the toxic dead neonatal mice one by one, from helicopters, with devices attached to cause them to hang up in the branches and not hit the ground. This because the snakes they are targeting are tree snakes.
Hmmmm.......any guesses as to the cost per snake in this reduction effort?
And the goal is not to eradicate the snakes, even though are a non-native species to the area. The goal is to "contain" them.
A few of these invaders became millions since WWII. I suspect that containing them will only guarantee the continuation of the containment effort$ forever.
Aren't there some poor folks living in Guam who might be encouraged by a bounty to more permanently reduce the snake population to the levels where they would become very difficult to find?
Is there ANYONE in charge of costs in our military who might be interested in saving a few million dollars of unnecessary expenditures and wasting a few thousand gallons of chopper fuel a year?
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 20, 2013 12:16:11 GMT -5
'Fraid not.
We don't go to many concerts, but we are going to hear Don Williams the following week in Carmel. Went to one of his appearances many years ago in Greenfield and enjoyed it thoroughly. About as "high energy" as Perry Como, but we sure like to hear the old crooner sing, and it's actually a PLUS for us that his amps could probably be powered by a couple of AA's if there's a power failure.
It's a geriatric thing, some of you kids just wouldn't understand.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 20, 2013 11:54:59 GMT -5
Set it to record as we were going out with our son and daughter-in-law to celebrate out 48th anniversary.
Got a few score updates from the kid off his phone (do they even still call those things a phone? Mobile device? Pocket computer?) as the game drew short, then discovered it was on live as we passed the bar area on the way to the exit at the Red Lobster, so we stood and watched the last 20 seconds or so on the way to the door.
Didn't have the energy to stay up and watch it after we got home, already knowing the outcome, but will probably skip through and catch it today. May leave the sound muted.... can't stand Dick Vitale's commentary. He might be a prince of a fellow and a good Republican for all I know about him personally, just never could stand his commentary even when I could make it out, and between his enunciation getting worse and my hearing matching his declining speaking skill, it's a completely lost cause now.
Was a Bobby fan long ago, then less and less as the vulgarities, the disrespect for authority and anyone else's opinions, the game and fish violations, and the interview debacles that turned into embarassments for the university and all but the most diehard fans, finally made it a relief when the U finally sent him away. Still admire his abilities as a coach, but Gene Keady at Purdue and Coach K at Duke accomplished similar successes without the behavioral tendencies of a spoiled teen needing a trip to the woodshed.
I like Crean, so far. The team attitudes seem healthy, and he's apparently quite capable of recruiting and developing talent without the personalty conflict battles that marked the Knight years. The team seems to be a real good bunch of guys who are enjoying playing together and it's fun to watch them succeed.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 18, 2013 12:03:19 GMT -5
I was curious as to the number of dashcam shots that captured the sudden and unanticipated appearance.
Saw the explanation today on my opening page......apparently in Russia there are so many road hazards ranging from bad neighborhoods to crooked cops to terrible drivers and extreme road hazards, that a good number of drivers have installed dashcams now for evidence in their court cases.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 17, 2013 15:51:11 GMT -5
Don't think you'll experience much crowding problem there. Maybe in a few popular spots on the first weekend or two, but there are so many places to access the forest there and squirrels are basically everywhere where there is food...and that's darn near everywhere in OPSF.
If it's not been raining too much at the time, I always liked the Rattlesnake CG at the end of the road off Rattlesnake road. You can wander in almost any direction from the CG without running into private ground or off-limits areas. The road that ends there has, IIRC, three fords across wet-weather creeks that grow a bit during very rainy periods but don't drain a lot of acreage and come back down to normal levels quickly after a downpour. At normal levels most cars are capable of crossing them without difficulty, just take it slow. Went there several times in my Chevettes, no problems.
I used to hunt deer and turkey quite a bit down there, but haven't as much in recent years because I have (or had) some pretty good hunting closer to home. Forest map shows a mountain bike trail that makes loop around that CG area that might make for an interesting combination of activities....I haven't been on it, but might try that this summer.
Oh....I suppose they named it that for some reason, but in all the years I hunted down there, I never encountered a rattler. Did come across a blue racer in a fruit tree next to trail there once, enjoying the sun while stretching out across the branches about head high. Got pretty close while admiring him and trying to figure out what variety he was. Then he startled me by disappearing in the blink of an eye and scooting away past my feet so quickly that he'd have been in my pocket before I could have jumped had that been his intent.
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 17, 2013 13:40:05 GMT -5
Stay tuned net season for a reality show on the History Channel about python roundups....Glade People has a ring to it. Hi perf airboats and hovercraft, short catchsticks with loops, maybe an ex-WWF star who just jumps on 'em and "rassles em".
|
|
|
Post by Russ Koon on Feb 17, 2013 13:29:05 GMT -5
Oh yeah....Inalchuq. Never mind.
|
|