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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 23, 2016 10:30:51 GMT -5
I've long said if someone truly wants to lower the harvest totals, the biggest way to impact totals is adjusting firearms timing or length, outside of just banning tags that is the most for sure way to affect harvest totals. I personally don't care enough to fight for any way. People that backed prop1 said that was the best way to reduce the herd was to move and shorten... Nothing said about reducing tags also. But there looks to be known Hypocrites in that group also..... "Dew as I say,not as I Dew" That "reduce the herd" was all a big front. What they really wanted was an attempt to grow "big bucks".
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 23, 2016 10:44:02 GMT -5
There logic was folks would just rush and kill what ever they seen... And never wait for another day to get there deer. Where you not around when all this was happening here in Indiana.... The rule changes?Ty I was around but tried to not get caught up in the whole hub bub....I can see that side of thinking but not entirely buying it however it very well could play out as they think. Crazy thing is if you gave firearms season just opening weekend and Thanksgiving 4 days...harvest totals would not shrink that much LOL...those two time spans amaze me each year.
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 23, 2016 10:44:45 GMT -5
People that backed prop1 said that was the best way to reduce the herd was to move and shorten... Nothing said about reducing tags also. But there looks to be known Hypocrites in that group also..... "Dew as I say,not as I Dew" That "reduce the herd" was all a big front. What they really wanted was an attempt to grow "big bucks". Which is fine, if you simply state such, because less firearm pressure during prime rut would probably result in some more bucks growing to maturity.
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Post by jjas on Dec 23, 2016 11:44:33 GMT -5
That "reduce the herd" was all a big front. What they really wanted was an attempt to grow "big bucks". Which is fine, if you simply state such, because less firearm pressure during prime rut would probably result in some more bucks growing to maturity. A few points.... Initially, I think that would happen. But then what happens as time constraints and bad weather push many general firearms season hunters to become less selective and fill their tag with the first legal buck that walks by? In other words, that 1 1/2 old 6 pointer that might be getting a pass now, suddenly looks like a "better" buck to many hunters. The firearms season is THE management tool in Indiana as bowhunters account for only about 25% of the total harvest and that includes the crossbow harvest. Will that change if the firearms season was shortened/moved or would archery hunters utilize those extra days to concentrate more on killing their trophy bucks and less on doe management, continuing to put the onus of deer management on firearms hunters with fewer days than ever to do so? Finally...if firearms hunters kill fewer does due to shorter seasons, that's going to put more hunters in the woods during the late antlerless season to fill those freezers. I thought the main purpose of this group was to limit the impact of that season and "protect the herd"?
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 23, 2016 12:14:42 GMT -5
Which is fine, if you simply state such, because less firearm pressure during prime rut would probably result in some more bucks growing to maturity. A few points.... Initially, I think that would happen. But then what happens as time constraints and bad weather push many general firearms season hunters to become less selective and fill their tag with the first legal buck that walks by? In other words, that 1 1/2 old 6 pointer that might be getting a pass now, suddenly looks like a "better" buck to many hunters. The firearms season is THE management tool in Indiana as bowhunters account for only about 25% of the total harvest and that includes the crossbow harvest. Will that change if the firearms season was shortened/moved or would archery hunters utilize those extra days to concentrate more on killing their trophy bucks and less on doe management, continuing to put the onus of deer management on firearms hunters with fewer days than ever to do so? Finally...if firearms hunters kill fewer does due to shorter seasons, that's going to put more hunters in the woods during the late antlerless season to fill those freezers. I thought the main purpose of this group was to limit the impact of that season and "protect the herd"? Oh no doubt, I simply was saying folks need to be upfront and honest with their goals. I agree what you describe could happen. Like you say though give or take some 75% of the harvest is from firearms...if this group truly wants to make a measurable impact that is where the biggest impact could occur...not attacking the smaller impact of fellas/gals that harvest say more than 2 or 3 a year.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 23, 2016 12:31:15 GMT -5
Which is fine, if you simply state such, because less firearm pressure during prime rut would probably result in some more bucks growing to maturity. A few points.... Initially, I think that would happen. But then what happens as time constraints and bad weather push many general firearms season hunters to become less selective and fill their tag with the first legal buck that walks by? In other words, that 1 1/2 old 6 pointer that might be getting a pass now, suddenly looks like a "better" buck to many hunters. The firearms season is THE management tool in Indiana as bowhunters account for only about 25% of the total harvest and that includes the crossbow harvest. Will that change if the firearms season was shortened/moved or would archery hunters utilize those extra days to concentrate more on killing their trophy bucks and less on doe management, continuing to put the onus of deer management on firearms hunters with fewer days than ever to do so? Finally...if firearms hunters kill fewer does due to shorter seasons, that's going to put more hunters in the woods during the late antlerless season to fill those freezers. I thought the main purpose of this group was to limit the impact of that season and "protect the herd"? Agreed.. More and more bowhunters are becoming more and more selective. Why? Because they have 90+ days to hunt that big buck. Shortening and moving ANY season will make deer hunters less selective. Short gun season out of the rut? Get prepared for deer hunting by deer drives. If bucks don't move hunters will try to get them to move. A lot of the "move gun season out of the rut" movement is by died in the wool bowhunters. But they want to stay in the rut. So, If we are going to be 100% fair to all and take guns out of the rut take ALL deer hunting tools out of the rut.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 23, 2016 12:32:30 GMT -5
Your also inpacting the largest group of people that buy tags... Which in turn could bite in the back side! Archery is just a hobby not management tool.Gun Hunter's pay the bills ...bottom line.
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 23, 2016 12:44:09 GMT -5
Your also inpacting the largest group of people that buy tags... Which in turn could bite in the back side! Archery is just a hobby not management tool.Gun Hunter's pay the bills ...bottom line. For sure! That is why I don't think it will ever get shortened. Moved....maybe but not by much. However, if one truly believes harvest numbers need lowered in a drastic way that is the way to make the impact the fastest...yet most ignore that.
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Post by jjas on Dec 23, 2016 14:28:13 GMT -5
FWIW (and this is strictly my opinion), I do think that eventually we'll see a "compromise" in that both the general firearms and muzzle loader seasons will be shortened to 9 days each but the start days will be left "as is". Doing so would throw the "I hate gun season" and "the herd is being wiped out" crowds a bone, while keeping interest up in the muzzleloader and late antlerless seasons.
Doing the above, continues to allow the DNR to utilize the late anterless season as THE management tool that they can adjust up/down as they see fit AND (and this is a big and) keep license sales up.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 23, 2016 14:44:54 GMT -5
That's a ONE sided compromise ..... So how days Bowhunter giving up???
How about we just do t hunt in November ... Period
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Post by jjas on Dec 23, 2016 14:49:19 GMT -5
That's a ONE sided compromise ..... So how days Bowhunter giving up??? How about we just do t hunt in November ... Period That's why I left the word "compromise" in parentheses, as once again firearms hunters will be expected to bear the brunt of herd management and pay the bills (and I don't see that changing anytime soon).... IMO, NO hunting in November has NO chance of ever happening....
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 23, 2016 15:04:50 GMT -5
That's a ONE sided compromise ..... So how days Bowhunter giving up??? How about we just do t hunt in November ... Period Time span between the two no one hunts....? The 9 days thing is the best "compromise" I've heard probably and would make an impact as described. The question of what will bowhunters give up is fair but anyone who has spent time in the woods knows bowhunting is tougher, hence why so many "bowhunters" pick up a gun come firearms season (NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT IMO). However, that alone proves it is a tougher technique which means taking 1 day from bow vs 1 day from firearms would become convoluted and honestly no way to put a true number on it due to gauging "tougher" is impossible I personally think if we see a change it won't be a shortening it will be a moving first...honestly another idea would be: make Muzzleloader season for non-inline or modern style ones. Percussion and flint only, which I sense is what the actual reasoning was of granting them their own time frame in the first place. I could see something like that happen before days are taken.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 23, 2016 15:20:06 GMT -5
Says the Bow only Hunter^^^^^^^Yeah NO hunting in Nov.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 23, 2016 15:33:23 GMT -5
That's a ONE sided compromise ..... So how days Bowhunter giving up??? How about we just do t hunt in November ... Period Time span between the two no one hunts....? The 9 days thing is the best "compromise" I've heard probably and would make an impact as described. The question of what will bowhunters give up is fair but anyone who has spent time in the woods knows bowhunting is tougher, hence why so many "bowhunters" pick up a gun come firearms season (NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT IMO). However, that alone proves it is a tougher technique which means taking 1 day from bow vs 1 day from firearms would become convoluted and honestly no way to put a true number on it due to gauging "tougher" is impossible I personally think if we see a change it won't be a shortening it will be a moving first...honestly another idea would be: make Muzzleloader season for non-inline or modern style ones. Percussion and flint only, which I sense is what the actual reasoning was of granting them their own time frame in the first place. I could see something like that happen before days are taken. No, no... It is all about equal hunting opportunity, not which method is the most difficult or most productive. A "compromise" is not taking something away from one group and giving it to another.. The way the firearm season cycles back and forth to rut timing now is perfect in my opinion. This year the gun hunters, and any bowhunters that wanted to stay out, had the peak of the rut. Next year the gun hunters will be moved back and the bowhunetrs will have the peak all to themselves. I think that is pretty fair...
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Post by jjas on Dec 23, 2016 16:16:42 GMT -5
Woody Williams
The whole "taking from one to give to another" thing is one of the reasons that many of us fought so hard against 1.0.
And I hadn't thought about the start date cycling and what it means. Thanks for bringing that up.
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Post by throbak on Dec 23, 2016 16:26:57 GMT -5
If the season were shortened that's exactly what I would do I wold be killing deer in warm weather And bucks would no longer get a pass I don't shoot bucks now waiting on a really big one 190 plus so obviously I don't shoot bucks No Problem I don't really care But If it meant having a less than full freezer I'll shoot every On I see till I get what I think I need I like waiting on weather to hang and looking for the monster But that would change real quick with less days in the field
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Post by jjas on Dec 23, 2016 16:31:38 GMT -5
For years I've felt that if firearms hunters were tasked with managing the herd and paid for the privilege of doing so, (while archery is considered a "hobby" by the DNR), then firearms hunters should be able to enjoy @ least some of the best part of the season.
That's why IMO, the start date for the firearms season should always continue on as it is now.
Period.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 23, 2016 16:42:11 GMT -5
Woody Williams The whole "taking from one to give to another" thing is one of the reasons that many of us fought so hard against 1.0. And I hadn't thought about the start date cycling and what it means. Thanks for bringing that up. Proposition one was ALL about a fairness issue for me. I love to hunt with my crossbow more than anything and would have had more time afield without my neighbors blasting away as they only gun hunt. They also pretty well shoot anything brown... Supporting proposition one would have been ultra selfish on my part. I would get to keep my neighbors out of the deer woods longer and I would be out there after the bigger bucks right on through the rut. Me knowing how non-handicapped crossbowers pretty well got the short end of the stick (late archery season only, and used to be antlerless only) drove the fairness issue home to me in spades.. As I said the present system has been in place for decades and the herd has done just fine... no need to change to make some happy so they might get a few more inches of bone on top of a deer's head..
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Post by freedomhunter on Dec 23, 2016 17:00:41 GMT -5
Once the quality of the hunting keeps hunters from buying licenses here, then there will be changes for a better hunting experience (less firearms days and/or later in season). It is truly all about the money, a well balanced herd with a good population of mature bucks is out of reach with our management (in most areas not managed by large land holders, outfitters or leases or urban areas). My advice is if your hunting sucks here, which I am hearing more and more, then start working on going somewhere like Kansas, Iowa, Ohio, or Illinois. Don't keep doing the same thing here and wasting your time. Kentucky is also a great option just due to the amount of habitat compared to here.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2016 18:06:03 GMT -5
Live in Ohio, 7 days (Monday to Sunday) gun and it's always after the rut. Be blessed what we have.
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