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Post by jimstc on May 15, 2015 10:07:07 GMT -5
A good quote from Frank Schwab (Yahoo Shutdown Corner Editor) "The fact is, by their actions, the NFL never cared about ball manipulation before. That's shown by the fact that the Colts tipped the league off to the Patriots possibly deflating balls before the AFC championship game, and they did nothing until the Colts complained again during the game. Or that the Panthers and Vikings were doing something illegal to the footballs and were given a warning. The whole idea of manipulating game balls just wasn't a big deal to the league, until it helped make a public spectacle out of deflate-gate." Complete article: sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/did-the-patriots-accuse-the-colts-of-cheating-to-ted-wells--204530519.html
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Post by jimstc on May 15, 2015 15:49:08 GMT -5
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Post by Sasquatch on May 15, 2015 16:03:20 GMT -5
I have to say, watching this debate, that I'm really depressed about the ho-hum attitude towards cheating I seem to be seeing among us.
One side of this debate clearly seems to be saying "Everybody cheats therefore no big deal /plus the Pats would have won anyway so it doesn't matter." Really?
I see a willingness to explain away obvious chicanery as the mutterings of the jealous. I see willing acceptance of Bill Belichick's nauseating arrogance and Brady's dubious morals. (I'm not saying others don't sin, including myself, BTW.)
I hope that we do not bring the same sliding scale, grade-on-a-curve morality with us into the woods.
"The fish was only a 1/4" undersize. 'Sides, nobody ever checks me here."
"The neighbor would have shot the buck 30 minutes after dark, so I might as well too."
"A tag is a tag... why does it matter if my wife didn't actually shoot the deer? The state got their money."
"Somebody else will steal that trail camera if I don't."
"It was a 170" deer. I'm not passing it up even if I have to shoot from the road--nobody else would."
It's ok for the Pats to cheat. Why not us? I'm not saying we would do these things, but what makes one thing ok and not the other?
It makes me sad.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 17:05:01 GMT -5
Most of the people defending The Football Team from Massachusetts are just trying to get digs in at Colts fans.
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Post by Woody Williams on May 19, 2015 16:50:54 GMT -5
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Post by greghopper on May 19, 2015 17:58:56 GMT -5
There gonna run out of CROW on the menu soon....lol
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Post by chubwub on May 19, 2015 21:45:43 GMT -5
The answer for me about this is...some things are just not worth the ruckus that people are raising. Yes, they deflated some footballs. Yes it was wrong. Everyone is acting like they murdered someone and need to be punished like murderers. It reminds me so much of the way schools react with the "zero tolerance" policies that most of you all just hate and love to bash.
It's deflated air. It does not deserve this much excitment and media attention.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 5:56:08 GMT -5
I have said this half a dozen times on here and either no one gets it or no one cares...but here I go again.
1. We are not just talking about one game against the Colts...we are talking about a long history of this, they just got caught against the Colts.
2. Let's say no game outcome (win/loss) was ever changed by this practice. There was bound to be an extra touchdown here or a field goal there that was affected. That impacts point spreads and that results in BILLIONS of dollars being affected. That makes anything that calls into question the ethics that affect the game on the field a VERY serious offense. Let's not kid ourselves here. Football betting is a HUGE business...not to mention all the millions of people who pay big money in these fantasy leagues. Player stats are also affected by the advantage created by altered footballs. This may seem silly on the surface, but when you bring big money into the picture, it quickly becomes a very big deal.
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Post by swilk on May 20, 2015 6:08:54 GMT -5
Greg believes you.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 7:20:46 GMT -5
Believes me about what?
You are the one who says you can reproduce the results of the magic footballs with science "easily".
Do you believe the"Deflator" was really a knick-name an equipment manager gave himself because he was trying to "lose weight" too? LOL!
That was the dumbest explanation I've ever heard foisted on the public. Talk about desperation!
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Post by greghopper on May 20, 2015 7:31:01 GMT -5
Yes I do.... There is a TON of others that believe it also....There is also a TON of others that have been Choking on CROW feathers the last few weeks also!!!
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 7:41:51 GMT -5
At this point, the only people who DON'T believe it are fans of The Football Team from Massachusetts, people who enjoy poking at Colts fans, and people who think they look like the smartest people in the room by taking the contrary view and playing the devil's advocate. The other 95% of the world pretty much understands reality.
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Post by swilk on May 20, 2015 8:08:53 GMT -5
You and Greg seem to think you speak for a lot of people ....
Im curious Met ... you have made reference to the statement I made about being able to easily reproduce the PSI loss through the use of various gauges (like those used which resulted in .45PSI difference between the two) and the science behind the ideal gas law. Do you not feel either of those played any part in what happened? Do you feel that the total PSI loss in the measured footballs was the direct result of human tampering?
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 8:27:04 GMT -5
It was determined that it could not have happened, to the degree that it did, naturally. The "Deflator" on Jenny Craig took care of it in the restroom...as he probably always did...until he finally got caught. I have heard NUMEROUS representatives from various teams around the league say this came as no surprise to them. That team from Mass. was well known for doing that among many other shady and nefarious things on a regular basis.
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Post by chubwub on May 20, 2015 9:22:38 GMT -5
I have said this half a dozen times on here and either no one gets it or no one cares...but here I go again. 1. We are not just talking about one game against the Colts...we are talking about a long history of this, they just got caught against the Colts. 2. Let's say no game outcome (win/loss) was ever changed by this practice. There was bound to be an extra touchdown here or a field goal there that was affected. That impacts point spreads and that results in BILLIONS of dollars being affected. That makes anything that calls into question the ethics that affect the game on the field a VERY serious offense. Let's not kid ourselves here. Football betting is a HUGE business...not to mention all the millions of people who pay big money in these fantasy leagues. Player stats are also affected by the advantage created by altered footballs. This may seem silly on the surface, but when you bring big money into the picture, it quickly becomes a very big deal. I see your point. #2 certainly is correct. BUT...Had Indy happened to win the AFC championship... they would have been found guilty of playing with 3 balls (out of 4 measured) that were under 12.5 psi. Three balls out of four: 75% doctored footballs. That seems pretty damming as well. www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/wells-report-more-probable-than-not-colts-played-with-under-inflated-footballs/33495/Wells Report: nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/investigative-and-expert-reports-re-footballs-used-during-afc-championsh.pdfSo yeah, if the tables had been turned and the Colts had won, would there have been this much outrage over deflated footballs? Would anyone have even cared or noticed? Why aren't the Colts being punished as well for 75% of the footballs being measured being under 12.5% PSI on at least one of the gauges? Rules are rules! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Also..holy cow bad science! Can't even finish measuring all of the Colt's footballs, using a sample size of only 4 footballs compared to 13 and you only used 2 gauges, which have at least a .5 PSI difference on them for something that needs to be between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI?!?!??! The only significant thing that Wells report can provide for me is use as toilet paper. I seriously question the ethics of this data. In my field, presenting this kind of garbage data would call your ethics into question.
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Post by swilk on May 20, 2015 9:44:08 GMT -5
Im just gonna start going with what ^^she^^ says for the remainder of this thread.
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Post by greghopper on May 20, 2015 10:06:28 GMT -5
Birds of feather usually fly together .....
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Post by swilk on May 20, 2015 10:19:26 GMT -5
What's with you and birds?
I'm just tired of typing the same thing over and over again...figure I'll leave it to her.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 13:08:32 GMT -5
The Indy footballs were found to be within the confines of what could be expected to occur with normal atmospheric deflation. The other team's balls were deflated to a point where that was deemed to be a highly unlikely to be naturally caused. Not to mention all the other evidence of shenanigans. I'm not really sure why I know that and others don't. I guess I listen to a lot more sports radio than most,
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 13:13:44 GMT -5
Plainly and simply put, the league would not punish a flagship franchise and poster boy QB unless there was overwhelmingly damning evidence against them. As I said, that team has a long reputation among all the other teams as a team that does unscrupulous things. Teams take precautions because of it. It is no secret. I have heard it from at least half a dozen NFL insiders on various platforms. When they play that team, they expect shenanigans.
The ball situation is just the tip of the iceberg and what got them caught.
Other things like hidden surveillance of visiting locker rooms, jamming or cutting out of the visiting team's communication system at crucial points in the game...things like that. I have heard several high level NFL insiders talk about this as a common and expected occurrence in that stadium for years. It is just assumed, when you go there, take precautions against shenanigans.
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