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Post by ridgerunner on Dec 8, 2011 5:47:43 GMT -5
Values? What does the herds ability to withstand the relatively small number of "double dippers" (that the pro-OBR guys seem unable to acknowledge) have to do with values? There are mature deer in every part of the state that has deer. The blame for a persons inability to kill one should be placed on themselves, not the DNR for not giving them one behind every tree. I know guys with small places to hunt that get it done every year and they don't rely on controlling their neighbors to do it. How about all the button bucks that get shot and counted as Antlerless....? Did you guys figure that into the mix...I hate to think about how many bucks are shot before they ever get their first rack..Those count too right...?
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Post by ridgerunner on Dec 8, 2011 5:51:36 GMT -5
Agree our system is broke so we should adopt ILLINOIS limit's and season's. (I know i'm dreaming again.) LOL Yeah Illinois has a short gun season thats the main reason they have the quality deer they have...NO Slaughter fest in the peak of Rut.
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Post by gobblerstopper on Dec 8, 2011 6:33:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the quote and completely unrelated response. BTW, who is "you guys"?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2011 7:02:13 GMT -5
Q--".NO Slaughter fest in the peak of Rut"
Completely false. Illinois hunts the peak of the rut. You won't believe it until you experience it. 2nd, not all bucks killed in Illinois are trophy bucks....go to a processor and look at the dinks there, they far out number the gaints. Same as in any other state.
As for BB's being killed, most deer managers don't even figure them into the herd until they are a year old, so it's a wash. Less than 10% is normal. Part of the results of vigorously killing does to balance the herd and keeping it in check.
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Post by dadfsr on Dec 8, 2011 7:06:16 GMT -5
Values? What does the herds ability to withstand the relatively small number of "double dippers" (that the pro-OBR guys seem unable to acknowledge) have to do with values? There are mature deer in every part of the state that has deer. The blame for a persons inability to kill one should be placed on themselves, not the DNR for not giving them one behind every tree. I know guys with small places to hunt that get it done every year and they don't rely on controlling their neighbors to do it. How about all the button bucks that get shot and counted as Antlerless....? Did you guys figure that into the mix...I hate to think about how many bucks are shot before they ever get their first rack..Those count too right...? You really think a 1 1/2 old BB that has nubs not even bigger than your thumb nail is ever going to amount to anything even close to a B&C buck??? I'm asking because that's what took I took this year for what I thought was a doe. I'm not an antler worshipper, I'm a meat hunter!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2011 7:08:51 GMT -5
Who aged it at 1.5? Never seen one, but even at 1.5 you couldn't tell for sure that it wouldn't mature into a trophy buck. Same as with spikes.
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Post by HuntMeister on Dec 8, 2011 7:15:33 GMT -5
Q--".NO Slaughter fest in the peak of Rut" Completely false. Illinois hunts the peak of the rut. You won't believe it until you experience it. 2nd, not all bucks killed in Illinois are trophy bucks....go to a processor and look at the dinks there, they far out number the gaints. Same as in any other state. +100 Saw it first hand my self this year in IL. Plenty of rut action going on in their gun seasons.
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Post by swilk on Dec 8, 2011 7:49:35 GMT -5
Ive never seen a 1.5yo button buck.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 8, 2011 8:05:06 GMT -5
Values? What does the herds ability to withstand the relatively small number of "double dippers" (that the pro-OBR guys seem unable to acknowledge) have to do with values? There are mature deer in every part of the state that has deer. The blame for a persons inability to kill one should be placed on themselves, not the DNR for not giving them one behind every tree. I know guys with small places to hunt that get it done every year and they don't rely on controlling their neighbors to do it. How about all the button bucks that get shot and counted as Antlerless....? What else can you count them as? They ARE antlerless aren't they?Did you guys figure that into the mix... As antlerless kills..I hate to think about how many bucks are shot before they ever get their first rack..Those count too right...? The buttons used to account for 12 -13 % of the total kill. That number is now down to 10% of the total kill. Even with the hugely increased number of ANTLERLESS permits that percent has gone down. I'd say the deer hunters are not only being more selective in what ANTLERED buck they will kill, but also what ANTLERLESS deer that they will kill.
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Post by dadfsr on Dec 8, 2011 8:05:16 GMT -5
Who aged it at 1.5? Never seen one, but even at 1.5 you couldn't tell for sure that it wouldn't mature into a trophy buck. Same as with spikes. OK I can't say for sure that it was 1.5 however when it's the same size as the 9 pointer that Dan took I had to assume that's what the age was.
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 8, 2011 8:09:26 GMT -5
Agree our system is broke so we should adopt ILLINOIS limit's and season's. (I know i'm dreaming again.) LOL Yeah Illinois has a short gun season thats the main reason they have the quality deer they have...NO Slaughter fest in the peak of Rut. You hunt Illinois....surely you don't still believe that? Bucks were still chasing this last weekend....mores so in the first weekend, but they haven't quit yet. BTW - Killing a bunch of deer (more than Indiana) in such a short time period really qualifies as a "slaughter fest".. BTW - The Illinois gun seasons will open one day earlier than Indiana next year....
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Post by Carphunter on Dec 8, 2011 8:28:26 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]You really think a 1 1/2 old BB that has nubs not even bigger than your thumb nail is ever going to amount to anything even close to a B&C buck??? I'm asking because that's what took I took this year for what I thought was a doe. I'm not an antler worshipper, I'm a meat hunter!!![/glow] I've never seen a 1-1/2 year old button buck. Button bucks are young bucks that were born in the spring of that year. It has been proven that antler size in a 1-1/2 year old buck does not determine the trophy potential of that buck either. With the slaughter of antlerless deer in this state, I tell "meat-hunters" to buy a cow.
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Post by legato on Dec 8, 2011 8:28:53 GMT -5
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Post by MuzzleLoader on Dec 8, 2011 8:28:58 GMT -5
On the check in registration of a deer, there is a column for button bucks. How many times does the check in attendant check this box when a button buck is brought in? Not alot, it is registered as antlerless doe. I would say this percentage deeply skewed. There are alot more button bucks killed every year than accounted for. Almost every time I fill out my own check in paperwork because the ladies are to busy working the counter at the gas station. Do you think the gas attendant is worried the check in is done correctly. No. I do not believe the number a killed buttons has gone down and they are registered correctly. There is a bigger percentage killed every year.
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Post by dadfsr on Dec 8, 2011 8:33:30 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]You really think a 1 1/2 old BB that has nubs not even bigger than your thumb nail is ever going to amount to anything even close to a B&C buck??? I'm asking because that's what took I took this year for what I thought was a doe. I'm not an antler worshipper, I'm a meat hunter!!![/glow] I've never seen a 1-1/2 year old button buck. Button bucks are young bucks that were born in the spring of that year. It has been proven that antler size in a 1-1/2 year old buck does not determine the trophy potential of that buck either. With the slaughter of antlerless deer in this state, I tell "meat-hunters" to buy a cow. Can't afford a cow!!! Literally!!!! AND I just love it when someone says "it has been proven" without any facts to back it up...
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Post by Woody Williams on Dec 8, 2011 8:35:33 GMT -5
On the check in registration of a deer, there is a column for button bucks. How many times does the check in attendant check this box when a button buck is brought in? Not alot, it is registered as antlerless doe. I would say this percentage deeply skewed. There are alot more button bucks killed every year than accounted for. Almost every time I fill out my own check in paperwork because the ladies are to busy working the counter at the gas station. Do you think the gas attendant is worried the check in is done correctly. No. I do not believe the number a killed buttons has gone down and they are registered correctly. There is a bigger percentage killed every year. I don't think that the form has changed much in the last ten years except for the addition of the PCR check box and that was very recent. So any skewing of the BB numbers will probably have been going on for some time. No doubt more BBs are getting killed, but as a percent of the harvest that number is down.. IMO
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Post by Carphunter on Dec 8, 2011 9:54:05 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]You really think a 1 1/2 old BB that has nubs not even bigger than your thumb nail is ever going to amount to anything even close to a B&C buck??? I'm asking because that's what took I took this year for what I thought was a doe. I'm not an antler worshipper, I'm a meat hunter!!![/glow] I've never seen a 1-1/2 year old button buck. Button bucks are young bucks that were born in the spring of that year. It has been proven that antler size in a 1-1/2 year old buck does not determine the trophy potential of that buck either. With the slaughter of antlerless deer in this state, I tell "meat-hunters" to buy a cow. Can't afford a cow!!! Literally!!!! AND I just love it when someone says "it has been proven" without any facts to back it up... I ALWAYS have facts. Barking up the wrong tree with me. ........and I just love it when someone asks me to prove it. learn.deeranddeerhunting.com/blog/daniel-schmidts-whitetail-wisdom/will-spike-bucks-grow-into-trophieswww.whitetaildeer-management-and-hunting.com/whitetail-bucks.htmlwww.thejump.net/Hunting_Articles/manage.htmwww.imbmonsterbucks.com/info.php?id=255www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_w7000_0827.pdfI could fill this page up with "FACTS". There is no justification in my mind to be shooting button bucks, (which aren't even a year old). If you want to be a "meat hunter", then you should really be sure what you are shooting before you pull the trigger. Now, just because you can't afford to buy a cow doesn't mean antlerless deer should be slaughtered. But heck, our regulations let you slaughter the deer, so have at it.
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Post by dadfsr on Dec 8, 2011 10:18:14 GMT -5
Yes it is legal, and for me, ethical because we have too many deer around our property....my cousin that farms it could easily get depredation permits but prefers to have us take care it-which way would you rather see it?.... Hunted down and slaughtered with no regard to anything other than strict elimination of deer numbers or taken during regular hunting seasons? I've taken more than my fair share of cull bucks off of this property over the last 20 some years. We are now seeing more and bigger bucks. NOT every buck will make B&C and quite frankly I could less if it does....does that make me a horrible hunter? I'm taking deer off my property in a humane manner and using as much as I can when I process them. If you on the other hand want to worship antlers and make everyone out that doesn't agree with you to be below you then so be it. I'm more than comfortable with the way I hunt and enjoy sitting down at the table with a meal that I have put there. Oh yeah-the first few words of the IMB link pretty well sums it up!
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Post by Carphunter on Dec 8, 2011 11:01:41 GMT -5
Yes it is legal, and for me, ethical because we have too many deer around our property....my cousin that farms it could easily get depredation permits but prefers to have us take care it-which way would you rather see it?.... Hunted down and slaughtered with no regard to anything other than strict elimination of deer numbers or taken during regular hunting seasons? I've taken more than my fair share of cull bucks off of this property over the last 20 some years. We are now seeing more and bigger bucks. NOT every buck will make B&C and quite frankly I could less if it does....does that make me a horrible hunter? I'm taking deer off my property in a humane manner and using as much as I can when I process them. If you on the other hand want to worship antlers and make everyone out that doesn't agree with you to be below you then so be it. I'm more than comfortable with the way I hunt and enjoy sitting down at the table with a meal that I have put there. Oh yeah-the first few words of the IMB link pretty well sums it up! Whether it be slaughtered with no regard for anything, or taken during the regular season, wayyyyy too many antlerless deer are being shot at a rate of 450 to 1. You can call it antler worship or whatever you want, but I'm for any law that allows ALL deer to reach maturity. It's called deer management. You don't manage any animals through hunting in the hopes of killing the immature males so that they never reach maturity. Don't put words in my mouth, I've got plenty of words there already. I don't think anyone is "below" me. I just don't understand how people that have been hunting for years get satisfaction out of killing deer that haven't even reached their first birthday. Just don't understand it. If a button buck and a mature 10 pointer are standing side by side, are you gonna shoot the button buck? I bet not. Please define "cull buck"? Is a button buck a cull buck? Is a spike buck a cull buck? Is a half racked 3 pointer a cull buck? Hmmmmmm, cull buck is a term I see people throw around to justify why they just shot an immature buck. Just because some things may be legal, doesn't make them right. I can shoot over 400 deer in this state LEGALLY. I'm certainly not going to do that. I'm glad to hear the deer numbers are extremely high in the areas that you hunt. They are way down in the areas I hunt. Did you click on any of the links? ? I gave you some facts. I can give plenty more if you would like. Instead of just reading the heading of the link, read the whole article. You might learn something.
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Post by dadfsr on Dec 8, 2011 11:24:55 GMT -5
Yes it is legal, and for me, ethical because we have too many deer around our property....my cousin that farms it could easily get depredation permits but prefers to have us take care it-which way would you rather see it?.... Hunted down and slaughtered with no regard to anything other than strict elimination of deer numbers or taken during regular hunting seasons? I've taken more than my fair share of cull bucks off of this property over the last 20 some years. We are now seeing more and bigger bucks. NOT every buck will make B&C and quite frankly I could less if it does....does that make me a horrible hunter? I'm taking deer off my property in a humane manner and using as much as I can when I process them. If you on the other hand want to worship antlers and make everyone out that doesn't agree with you to be below you then so be it. I'm more than comfortable with the way I hunt and enjoy sitting down at the table with a meal that I have put there. Oh yeah-the first few words of the IMB link pretty well sums it up! Whether it be slaughtered with no regard for anything, or taken during the regular season, wayyyyy too many antlerless deer are being shot at a rate of 450 to 1. You can call it antler worship or whatever you want, but I'm for any law that allows ALL deer to reach maturity. It's called deer management. You don't manage any animals through hunting in the hopes of killing the immature males so that they never reach maturity. Don't put words in my mouth, I've got plenty of words there already. I don't think anyone is "below" me. I just don't understand how people that have been hunting for years get satisfaction out of killing deer that haven't even reached their first birthday. Just don't understand it. If a button buck and a mature 10 pointer are standing side by side, are you gonna shoot the button buck? I bet not. Please define "cull buck"? Is a button buck a cull buck? Is a spike buck a cull buck? Is a half racked 3 pointer a cull buck? Hmmmmmm, cull buck is a term I see people throw around to justify why they just shot an immature buck. Just because some things may be legal, doesn't make them right. I can shoot over 400 deer in this state LEGALLY. I'm certainly not going to do that. I'm glad to hear the deer numbers are extremely high in the areas that you hunt. They are way down in the areas I hunt. Did you click on any of the links? ? I gave you some facts. I can give plenty more if you would like. Instead of just reading the heading of the link, read the whole article. You might learn something. I would much rather eat a young(er) deer thank you! I think I've kept most the antlers over the years from my "Doug" bucks as most of the family calls them-certainly an oddball collection of antlers and not a matching set up points anywhere.
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