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Post by dbd870 on May 18, 2009 13:09:36 GMT -5
Done. As usual those against the change have nothing to stand on but empty fear of change.
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Post by js2397 on May 18, 2009 14:14:46 GMT -5
I am against it because I like seeing all the deer when I drive by the check station. I am afraid that if telecheck goes through we will no longer be seen. Now in a lot of communities you can see the hunters and the deer they have killed. If you don't see them than maybe you don't think about them. When it comes time for gun control or a debate over hunting right all the nonhunters will think hunting has gone away and there is no need to support hunters anymore.
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Post by Hoosier Hunter on May 18, 2009 14:34:55 GMT -5
I am against it because I like seeing all the deer when I drive by the check station. I am afraid that if telecheck goes through we will no longer be seen. Now in a lot of communities you can see the hunters and the deer they have killed. If you don't see them than maybe you don't think about them. When it comes time for gun control or a debate over hunting right all the nonhunters will think hunting has gone away and there is no need to support hunters anymore. If it helps you any you'll still see them being transported from the woods to the processors. 5 minutes at the check station won't make a difference. I live a 1/4 mile from a check station and drive by it everyday. Not too often was my timing the same time someone was checking one in. You'll see alot more deer driving by a processor than you will a check station...
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Post by johnc911 on May 18, 2009 15:53:33 GMT -5
I am not in favor of tele check
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Post by jkd on May 18, 2009 16:13:16 GMT -5
In general, the poaching thing seems to be a wash, as compliance rates have been found to be either the same or higher in those states that have implemented electronic checkin. Their LEO's seem happy with the systems, in that they have immediate check data to go validate, although Indiana hunters may be surprised to find CO's coming to their homes to verify electronic data and so forth... see links below (some are the same as posted above) There will be some economic impact to check-in locations in lost sales of drinnks, snacks and ice. The questions I have are how IDNR will obtain biological and CWD-related samples, and how going to a new system will further skew data analysis for purposes of OBR and bonus antlerless stats? IDNR has said in recent years that they didn't want to make further changes to the deer regs until several years of comparative OBR stats could be obtained, yet here we are again getting ready to make changes that will change the very nature of how these stats are obtained and the manner in which deer are checked. Frankly, in this case, I think the issue of telecheck should be left solely to IDNR... if they think it will make their job easier and cut costs, fine... if not, then leave the system as it is... In my case, it won't make much difference, as I'm taking my deer to a processor who is also a check station, so I'm driving there regardless. And I don't think there is much weight in the argument of the deer shot in 80-90 degree weather and the hunter can't find a check station... stations are published in the hunting guide, and that's part of the hunter's responsibility to know when and where he or she can check in a deer, which is part of deciding whether to be hunting in weather that hot in the first place... Much ado about nothing, IMO, and unless IDNR says they want it, I say... leave it as is... Here's what others are saying in other states... Ohio www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4481621 share2.myfwc.com/FWCDMSG/Lists/Announcements/Attachments/21/2010%20new%20licensing%20and%20game%20check%20system.pdf Kentucky fw.ky.gov/newsrelease.asp?nid=241 Missouri www.stjoenews.net/news/2007/nov/16/despite-loss-check--station-chat-newer-system-does/ www.outdoors-411.com/news/hunting/060131-missouri-telecheck-successful.html www.outdoorguidemagazine.com/guesteditorials.htm and their comparative study... " www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2193/0091-7648(2006)34%5B1356:ACODAT%5D2.0.CO%3B2]Study "
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Post by Woody Williams on May 18, 2009 16:28:39 GMT -5
Kirk,
I tried to make that a live link on your last link.
That did not work.
Even copy and pasting it cant open a link.
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Post by Decatur on May 18, 2009 16:44:27 GMT -5
It said the article isn't available for me.
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Post by Decatur on May 18, 2009 16:47:46 GMT -5
From JKD's first link.
"It is just too easy to kill a deer, get it home untagged and get it in the freezer without anyone knowing. And in the case of Illinois, where we are only (allowed) two antlered deer per season, I know that bucks have been killed and checked over the phone as does, preserving the buck tag."
Scares me, especially since we are only allowed one! I don't really care about telecheck one way or the other, but I am kind of starting to lean away from it, but it won't bust me up if we get it. I can understand why some people need, or at least think they need it, but I'm not one of them.
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Post by racktracker on May 18, 2009 17:16:52 GMT -5
Decatur,
I've deer hunted a long time and checked in a bunch of deer. I lost count as to how many. I have NEVER had any check station person ever come out and look at my deer unless I told him I got a pretty nice buck. Then he wanted to see it just because it was a "pretty nice buck".
I could have checked a ton of bucks in as does and not one check station operator would have caught it. ANY system that anyone can come up with people, will figure a way around it. From the sites I have read on the subject the COs seem pretty darn happy with it and if it makes their job easier I am all for it.
I totally disregard posters on webstites claiming "this and that" unless they can back it up with data or cites. So far all the people against it are using a lot of "what ifs" and mostly scare tactics..
It is time for Indiana to come out of the dark ages.
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Post by racktracker on May 18, 2009 17:19:31 GMT -5
In general, the poaching thing seems to be a wash, as compliance rates have been found to be either the same or higher in those states that have implemented electronic checkin. Their LEO's seem happy with the systems, in that they have immediate check data to go validate, although Indiana hunters may be surprised to find CO's coming to their homes to verify electronic data and so forth... see links below (some are the same as posted above) There will be some economic impact to check-in locations in lost sales of drinnks, snacks and ice. The questions I have are how IDNR will obtain biological and CWD-related samples, and how going to a new system will further skew data analysis for purposes of OBR and bonus antlerless stats? IDNR has said in recent years that they didn't want to make further changes to the deer regs until several years of comparative OBR stats could be obtained, yet here we are again getting ready to make changes that will change the very nature of how these stats are obtained and the manner in which deer are checked. Frankly, in this case, I think the issue of telecheck should be left solely to IDNR... if they think it will make their job easier and cut costs, fine... if not, then leave the system as it is... In my case, it won't make much difference, as I'm taking my deer to a processor who is also a check station, so I'm driving there regardless. And I don't think there is much weight in the argument of the deer shot in 80-90 degree weather and the hunter can't find a check station... stations are published in the hunting guide, and that's part of the hunter's responsibility to know when and where he or she can check in a deer, which is part of deciding whether to be hunting in weather that hot in the first place... Much ado about nothing, IMO, and unless IDNR says they want it, I say... leave it as is... Here's what others are saying in other states... Ohio www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4481621 share2.myfwc.com/FWCDMSG/Lists/Announcements/Attachments/21/2010%20new%20licensing%20and%20game%20check%20system.pdf Kentucky fw.ky.gov/newsrelease.asp?nid=241 Missouri www.stjoenews.net/news/2007/nov/16/despite-loss-check--station-chat-newer-system-does/ www.outdoors-411.com/news/hunting/060131-missouri-telecheck-successful.html www.outdoorguidemagazine.com/guesteditorials.htm and their comparative study... " www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2193/0091-7648(2006)34%5B1356:ACODAT%5D2.0.CO%3B2]Study " Good info jkd. I too have done a lot of searching to educate myslef on this subject and the positives FAR outweigh the negatives. It should be a no brainer.
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Post by jkd on May 18, 2009 17:44:21 GMT -5
Yeah, woody... don't know what's up with that URL... I can pull it up with a google of "comparison of deer telecheck systems and Bioone"... it's just an abstract to a full report, but does have a few stats in it that are interesting...
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Post by Decatur on May 18, 2009 17:56:03 GMT -5
Decatur, I've deer hunted a long time and checked in a bunch of deer. I lost count as to how many. I have NEVER had any check station person ever come out and look at my deer unless I told him I got a pretty nice buck. Then he wanted to see it just because it was a "pretty nice buck". I could have checked a ton of bucks in as does and not one check station operator would have caught it. ANY system that anyone can come up with people, will figure a way around it. From the sites I have read on the subject the COs seem pretty darn happy with it and if it makes their job easier I am all for it. I totally disregard posters on webstites claiming "this and that" unless they can back it up with data or cites. So far all the people against it are using a lot of "what ifs" and mostly scare tactics.. It is time for Indiana to come out of the dark ages. Ya, they aren't even required to come and look at your deer. It's still easier to cheat with telecheck, but if people want to cheat, they will find a way. In the end most people who are honest, will stay honest either way, those that aren't, won't. Like I said, it doesn't affect me either way.
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Post by Woody Williams on May 18, 2009 17:56:23 GMT -5
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2009 18:09:41 GMT -5
IMO, Telechek is the way to go and ever Game Agency that checks deer and other animals will eventually go to a system such as this at some time in the near future.
Telechek and other check in systems were never designed to eliminate poaching. They are simply a way to gather data about the animal being checked. Law enforcement use the check systems in some of their duties, but that is not the intent of the program.
All said and done, telechek will not increase non-complaince, less LE people in the field will. As budgets get tight, less people are most pften the result. Which is a big plus with automated check ins.
There are a bunch of states that have no deer check at all, so.......what the poaching rate in those states.
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Post by Woody Williams on May 18, 2009 18:14:40 GMT -5
IMO, Telechek is the way to go and ever Game Agency that checks deer and other animals will eventually go to a system such as this at some time in the near future. Telechek and other check in systems were never designed to eliminate poaching. They are simply a way to gather data about the animal being checked. Law enforcement use the check systems in some of their duties, but that is not the intent of the program. All said and done, telechek will not increase non-complaince, less LE people in the field will. As budgets get tight, less people are most pften the result. Which is a big plus with automated check ins. There are a bunch of states that have no deer check at all, so.......what the poaching rate in those states. This is for 2007. I think a couple more states have adopted TeleCheck since then.. www.southeasternoutdoors.com/outdoors/hunting/biggame-check-in.html
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Post by HuntMeister on May 18, 2009 20:15:04 GMT -5
Thanks for the link Woody! I sent my thoughts. I believe it should be up to DNR & wildlife biologist to decide whether it is right for us...
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Post by raporter on May 18, 2009 21:27:40 GMT -5
Sent my email in support of Telecheck.
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Post by jackc99 on May 18, 2009 21:32:06 GMT -5
This is the agenda item as posted on the NRC site. I bolded the important part about the DNR recommendation:
AGENDA ITEM #8 Consideration of Recommendations of DNR Committee Formed to Consider Citizen Petition to Allow Deer and Turkey Hunters to Check in Their Harvest by Telephone; Administrative Cause No. 08-021D In January 2008, John Scifres filed a petition for rule change to allow hunters, by telephone, to check in their harvests of white-tailed deer and wild turkeys. Consistently with the Commission's nonrule policy document on rule-change petitions, Director Rob Carter formed a committee to review the petition and make recommendations. The Director appointed Wayne Bivans of the Division of Fish and Wildlife as Chair, and he appointed Maj. Steve Hunter, Maj. Scott Wilson, and Michael Mycroft of the Division of State Parks and Reservoirs as Members. Consideration of the petition required extensive analyses of electronic systems, as well as of the economic and social impacts. With the guidance of Mitch Marcus of the Division of Fish and Wildlife, a February 13, 2009 report was generated, as attached, to memorialize the results of the review. The DNR recommends (1) the petition be granted in principle, as more particularly referenced in the attached report, when funding becomes available; and, (2) the Division of Fish and Wildlife be authorized to take appropriate steps to implement a telephone check-in system, including the preparation of any required draft rules for the Commission's subsequent preliminary adoption.
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Post by tickman1961 on May 19, 2009 7:40:24 GMT -5
Sent email in support of TeleCheck......it's a "no brainer" in my mind.
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Post by bschwein on May 19, 2009 8:26:38 GMT -5
I am against it because I like seeing all the deer when I drive by the check station. I am afraid that if telecheck goes through we will no longer be seen. Now in a lot of communities you can see the hunters and the deer they have killed. If you don't see them than maybe you don't think about them. When it comes time for gun control or a debate over hunting right all the nonhunters will think hunting has gone away and there is no need to support hunters anymore. I don't want to come across the wrong way, but your opposed only because you like "seeing" deer at the check station? Your Kidding right?
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