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Post by discgolf94 on Jan 25, 2009 2:09:07 GMT -5
Laws and ethics are two total different things.
and people wonder whats wrong with our country.
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Post by rivrbottmstalkr on Jan 25, 2009 23:20:29 GMT -5
Uh yeah, as in somethings that are legal may not always be ethical. And ethics can change from person to person. I didn't say I agreed with it, if a person feels it's unethical then it's pretty easy. DON'T PARTICIPATE IN IT.
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Post by kevin1 on Jan 26, 2009 8:54:17 GMT -5
My position on Pic n' Shoots is as unchanged and as unwavering as it ever was. Never, for any reason, will I support them, ever. I don't care how large they may be or where they are, I don't want them here and never will, and I will do what it takes to see that they are abolished here forever.
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Post by tickman1961 on Jan 26, 2009 9:53:56 GMT -5
Interesting how everything is placed is the same big pile, how convienent.....
Black is black and white is white - grey does not exist nor is it considered by closed minded individuals.
The enemy comes from within.....it is us.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jan 26, 2009 10:30:15 GMT -5
My position on Pic n' Shoots is as unchanged and as unwavering as it ever was. Never, for any reason, will I support them, ever. I don't care how large they may be or where they are, I don't want them here and never will, and I will do what it takes to see that they are abolished here forever. Again, it is intent. "Pick-N-Shoot", as you call it, is not equivelent to "High Fence" in general. Yes, there are many specifics, but the generalization is unfair. Not all, and especially not in the multi-thousand acre spreads of Texas, High Fence are "pick & shoot". I know of one place that specifically declines to guarantee an animal. The place is just too big and the animals have - pardon the expression - free range on it. Of course, the water buffalo rarely leave their several wallows, but that's how they live in Africa too. It's all in the intent. Oh, & FWIW, on the particular Ranch I reference, the owner has never brought in Whitetails or Hogs... yet he has both. Seems that even an 8ft fence is no guarantee that whitetails can't come and go at will...
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Post by trapperdave on Jan 26, 2009 11:23:01 GMT -5
better shut down them military hunts,,,,they're surrounded by high fence
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jan 26, 2009 11:24:45 GMT -5
better shut down them military hunts,,,,they're surrounded by high fence Yeah... I've mentioned that before too... but it seems to go over some folk's head...
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Post by freedomhunter on Jan 26, 2009 11:42:14 GMT -5
Military bases are fenced, but the deer get in and out, imo. A buddy of mine watched a big buck jump the fence at Newport. They tunnel under at Big Oaks in several spots.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jan 26, 2009 12:22:57 GMT -5
Military bases are fenced, but the deer get in and out, imo. A buddy of mine watched a big buck jump the fence at Newport. They tunnel under at Big Oaks in several spots. Yep. So anyone saying that every "high fence" operation is nothing but an uber-controlled "shooting pen" is ignoring the facts. Some are, some aren't. Intent is everything.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 14:08:58 GMT -5
Military bases are fenced, but the deer get in and out, imo. A buddy of mine watched a big buck jump the fence at Newport. They tunnel under at Big Oaks in several spots. Yep. So anyone saying that every "high fence" operation is nothing but an uber-controlled "shooting pen" is ignoring the facts. Some are, some aren't. Intent is everything. Absolutely nothing in common with fenced military installations and a fence deer pen. Fenced military instal. are fenced to keep people out. deer can go under in several places and deer can go over if they want. The fence is basicly people proof for the most part but isn't a absolute barrier, as someone who did want in bad enough could choose the same route as the deer use. As for deer proof fences, they are designed for deer not people. It's very important that fenced deer don't get out to populate the wild herd. It would also be pretty stupid frm a business stand point to allow your farmed deer to escape at will. Bottom line, deer hunts at military basis are fair chase, those held at deer pens aren't.....especially in the kill pen portion.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jan 26, 2009 14:21:21 GMT -5
Ah. Here we go. The distinction between "High Fence" and "Shooting Pens".
Some High Fence operations are just that... "hig fence", quite similar to the MilRes with no "shooting pens".
Without making that distinction, people are using an overgeneralization solely to confuse the issue.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2009 18:07:56 GMT -5
High fence denotes the height of the fence. Deer proof means that deer can't get out or get in. A security fence isn't designed to be deer proof. A killing pen is often inside of the high fence and makes sure of the outcome of the so called hunt. Not all canned hunts take place in a kill pen, but many do. If the operater of the facility doesn't provide a happy ending, they don't get paid. Same as with a prostitute. Hope this helps you understand the difference.
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Post by lugnutz on Jan 26, 2009 19:36:44 GMT -5
Its not my cup of tea, but who am i to judge someone if they are willing to make a buck. Apparently the business must be good. if you wanna kill a deer inside a high fence, more power to ya, if it makes ya feel like a hunter, more power to ya. I don't see what all the fuss is about, its not taking opprotunity away from anyone!
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Post by Hoosier Hunter on Jan 26, 2009 20:21:19 GMT -5
I've seen deer clear the fence at JPG. Parts of Crane on the North side is nothing more than a 3' rusty barbed wire fence.
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Post by steiny on Jan 26, 2009 21:11:32 GMT -5
Heck, I'd love to hunt the sanctuary up there in Michigan and shoot one of those pigs.
Doubt if I ever will, because I'm not going to pay money for such a hunt, however if any of you "anti high fence people" want to pay my freight and send me up there to shoot a big 190" buck for research, I promise to come back with a full report, and fair and un-biased opinion.
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Post by indianahick on Jan 26, 2009 21:22:46 GMT -5
JPG-Isn't that Big Oaks now? How many acres does it encompass? 6-8,000 all under one outside fence; That could be torn down and sold for scrap. They don't have bombing practice there anymore do they? Are parts still restricted because of the possibility of live ordnance yet un exploded? Crane is still in service (Military) while hunting has been shut down I do believe that there were places that were out of bounds and if you went there you went directly to jail. Atterbury I believe has been turned over mainly to civilian and military use as a training grounds for heavy machinery. There again you have an out of bounds and several thousand acres. They did stop dropping bombs there didn't they? Why do high fence operations survive? Quite simply because we have a I want a wall hanger mentality instilled upon us by the media. High fence is for ego satisfaction. If it were a steer that someone shot behind a high fence would it create this much responce? Quite simply Shooting A Cow is not hunting, cattle are not game animals.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jan 26, 2009 22:09:28 GMT -5
... Why do high fence operations survive? Quite simply because we have a I want a wall hanger mentality instilled upon us by the media. High fence is for ego satisfaction. If it were a steer that someone shot behind a high fence would it create this much responce? Quite simply Shooting A Cow is not hunting, cattle are not game animals. Obviously, people just don't WANT to differentiate between large area operations and shooting pens. I readily admit that there are "shooting pen" operations that have zero "hunting" value. Why is it so hard for some people to comprehend that there are, in fact, "high fence" operations that are NOT pens... that are "high fence" because the Government and good sense demand that they be so? Maybe you think that the only people who should hunt "exotics" are the uber-rich who can afford Safaris... or maybe you don't care if exotics get released into the wild in the US? As I have said, there ARE legitimate, well run, mega-area, free-chase multi-thousand acre ranches under a single fence. No pens, no enclosures, just a fence that surrounds an area too large to walk across in a day or more. Those of you who are intent on blaming ALL fenced ranches for the bad behavior of some others are acting no better than the Anti who castigates ALL hunters for the bad behavior of Slobs. There are Slob "hunters" and there are Slob "preserves", but in neither case do ALL hunters or preserves deserving of the kind of vitreol being expressed because of the bad ones. Not everyone is a Slob. Stop treating them like it. Humiliate the cheats, humiliate te slobs. That's what the internet is for. But it is also for disemnating the Truth. Intent is everything. Not every High Fence is a deer pen.
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Post by steiny on Jan 27, 2009 20:20:40 GMT -5
Well put O.I.S.
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Post by Decatur on Jan 27, 2009 20:57:00 GMT -5
Is intent everything? I'm not sure. ;d
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