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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 19, 2009 10:14:18 GMT -5
OK Pav... I thought you were talking about the "organized groups" that gave input.
Your "monotonous....." snide remark is duly noted...
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Post by jackc99 on Jan 19, 2009 10:21:13 GMT -5
Just to be clear this is already a proposed item. It will show up on the NRC website as a proposed item one day soon. There will be a link there to comment. The other link posted above by pav is merely the survey info that is obviously over since they have evaluated it and made their recommendations. This is where the comments to the youth antlered proposal will be made available: www.in.gov/nrc/2377.htm
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2009 10:27:04 GMT -5
It is NOT proper to throw a chain in the spokes by making additional changes that did not receive the same opportunity for input. Whether you agree with the age change or not, anyone that provided input on the either sex change should be disappointed with the DNR for adding ANYTHING additional to that proposal. I can't figure out why anyone would oppose the DNR attempting to make the regs being more consistant. If the age of a person needing a youth license is less than 18, then they should be and are already considered youths. Phooey if a few archery hunters don't get first crack on a couple thousand deer these youngsters might take in 2 days time. Didn't take long to find this: Does someone under the age of 18 or over the age of 65 need to purchase a fishing or hunting license?A hunting license is not required for an individual who is less than 13 years old, does not possess a bow or firearm, and who is accompanied by a person who is at least 18 years of age and holds a valid hunting license. However, children age 17 and younger who will possess a bow or firearm or will not be accompanied by a person over the age of 18 must obtain a youth hunting license, unless hunting during the free youth hunting days designated by the director each fall. Children who are nonresidents and under the age of 18 may purchase a resident youth hunting license if the child has a parent, grandparent or legal guardian who is a resident of Indiana. A fishing license and trout and salmon stamp are not required for those individuals under the age of 17 or for those Indiana residents who are the age of 65 or older. For more information on license requirements, visit DNR’s Division of Fish and Wildlife site at www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/.
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Post by lugnutz on Jan 19, 2009 13:27:42 GMT -5
Just outa curiosity what is the purpose of allowing the 2 day youth hunters an opprotunity to take a buck deer?
Hunter recruitment has already been accomplished by allowing this two day hunt. Isn't that its sole responsibility?
I personally could care less either way. Just can't see shouting hunter recruitment, as the need to shoot a buck.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2009 15:10:59 GMT -5
Just outa curiosity what is the purpose of allowing the 2 day youth hunters an opprotunity to take a buck deer? Hunter recruitment has already been accomplished by allowing this two day hunt. Isn't that its sole responsibility? I personally could care less either way. Just can't see shouting hunter recruitment, as the need to shoot a buck. Good question....the answer is why not? Everybody else that hunts has a chance at both while they are hunting. Deer are born close to one buck to one doe in most all places, so they should also be harvested in the same ratio. Since the day of the cavemen, antlers have been praised by the hunters in search of animals, even when they were forced to hunt for survival. The allure is still there, albeit for different reasons. No child should be left behind when it comes to hunting. Let them have the same chances that adults have IF you really want them to stay in the game.
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Post by shouldernuke on Jan 19, 2009 20:20:51 GMT -5
Just outa curiosity what is the purpose of allowing the 2 day youth hunters an opprotunity to take a buck deer? Hunter recruitment has already been accomplished by allowing this two day hunt. Isn't that its sole responsibility? I personally could care less either way. Just can't see shouting hunter recruitment, as the need to shoot a buck. Ditto here as well. Good question....the answer is why not? Everybody else that hunts has a chance at both while they are hunting. Deer are born close to one buck to one doe in most all places, so they should also be harvested in the same ratio. Since the day of the cavemen, antlers have been praised by the hunters in search of animals, even when they were forced to hunt for survival. The allure is still there, albeit for different reasons. No child should be left behind when it comes to hunting. Let them have the same chances that adults have IF you really want them to stay in the game. You guys act like theses kids can't hunt with dad or on thier own in regular season and take thier buck in regular season .There is no reason that hey can not go out like every other kid before them and take thier bucks .I really think you guys are missing the whole point of the two day youth season . They can hunt the other three seasons like my sones have and were very very successful at .I think it might just be some folks not willing to cut into thier hunting time to hunt with thier kids is where this whole thing lays . Also about the compeating with old guys like me thrtead by some one earlier .They are not on anyone elses hunting land but thier fathers hunting land so is there some man old guy setting two trees over taking juniors buck I think not .Thus theonly compitiotion out there like alot of other sports is with themselves and the deer .Once agin this is back to a hunting mentor that is good enough to place them in a sure fire spot. What I beleive in these cases is dad may just be a little greedy here in this case wanting everyone away from thier woods .I have never taken a buck deer from a child they have to walk by them and get shot to be thier buck on thier hunting land. So if a kids father puts his child in a spot that does not have bucks frequinting that stand site then shame on a poor stand placed by what is obviously a not so hot a hunter in dad.My kids have killed bucks since they were 10 and 12 respectivly they are now 17 and 20 they have more bucks earn by hard hunting in regular gun and bow season than alot of so calld adult veteran hunters.My oldest sons first bucK was an 8 point shot on opening day of archey season when he was 10 it was a real [/img]nice deer .My youngests sons first buck cam at 11 on opening day of gun it was a 152 inch 10 point that sets in the state book along side mine he did the whole thing himself as I sat drinking a cup of coffe in our shooting house . This horn por is starting to creep intro what was supposed to remain pure and hve two purposes ythis argument was pointless last nite and will reamai so we all have opinions !
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Post by shouldernuke on Jan 19, 2009 20:46:04 GMT -5
II think there honestly is no room for an early gun season for bucks in Indiana.Being a kid should not entitle them to just take off of the top of the crop. shouldernuke is gone but isn't this quote just what i said it was? h.h.. No it certainly was not what I said I do not mince words at all .So let me expound for the closed or one track minded around here.The cream off of the top comment could be a buck that a first year hunter of any age would have 6 point or 5 point this includes those kids that are out there getting cold and tired trying to get their buck . A 25 year olds first hunt is as important as a 12 year olds .As a matter of a fact that 25 year old entered the sport because he wanted to .Most kids hunt because dad wants them too .Who will likely stay a hunter the older one that may likely have less experiance than the younger hunter. Also Had I Meant "Trophy bucks" I would of said my our our Trophy Bucks . The fact that antlers are involved in a youth season taints its from all sides. I left be cause of the accusations and twisting of my words I was not run off either before is said something that I would regret.How many dads will pull the trigger on the buck of a lifetime .Oh it will happen I promise .Then the outcry will be close youth season there is too much poaching!!Then what no two day antler less hunt for the kids .I am sure alot of up right hunters will be what they are supposed to be but look at how many scumbag deadbeat dads are out there. I have seen some of those that support this things posts in the past when I was lurking blast poachers and cheaters .Well folks do you really think some 18 year chick with bluejeans and make up on or 65 year old grandma that has never hunted and dose not own a pair of hunting boots just took a monster buck with the deer license that she bought the day before ? Or is this just paranoia?? I know not it happens every year just open the door for some more unsavory types too. This all boils down to two side and alot of politics what fits the agenda will be passed or not.But I have kids and soon enough grand kids too there is a tradition here in this state a deer hunting tradition and it does not include those who break the law or quit because they did not see a deer no matter the age they are . I will not argue this agin and I will not be attacked for words I did not type or say .Like I said I said what I meant
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Post by deerman on Jan 19, 2009 20:48:02 GMT -5
I think the antlerless is ok. It teaches the kids about following the game laws and also teaches the kids its ok to shoot doe. I'm sure it sucks for a kid to go out hunting a couple of times and not being able to shoot anything because all he or she saw were bucks, but there is more to hunting than just the kill. It's not like the kids don't have the whole 3 months of deer season to kill a buck.
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Post by schall53 on Jan 19, 2009 20:48:59 GMT -5
shouldernuke You are looking at this in your posts as a dad taking out his children. There are alot of kids out there now that don't have a parent that hunts that would like to take up the sport. In this day and age of single parents things are not like they were when we started hunting. I personally have taken two such kids under my wing and now they are accomplished hunters. Seeing them kill their first deer was more fun than taking them myself. I agree that kids that have a parent that hunts will do just fine it is the others that I am concerned about. I say give them all a break, what is two days with the length of the season. If they get a shot at a buck so much the better, they will only be allowed to kill one a season anyway.
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Post by Decatur on Jan 19, 2009 20:51:35 GMT -5
No matter what rules there are, ther will ALWAYS be people who break them. An honest person is an honest person, scum are scum, regardless of the situation!
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Post by hornharvester on Jan 20, 2009 0:55:10 GMT -5
I think once the youth season buck gets passed and after a season or two goes by, guys will see the big bucks will still be around. Kids won't steal the bucks out from under them. h.h.
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Post by cambygsp on Jan 20, 2009 8:31:32 GMT -5
I do not think antlered deer should betaken on the youth hunt at all .It was never ment as a regular season and it is a deer management hunt . Being a kid should not intitle them to just take off of the top of the crop .Since when is killing bucks a management tool? They need to learn that there is compititon for those bucks amongst all Indiana deer hunters that they have the same chance every other hunter here has ..Sorry but that is my feelings on this. These are your words! Are they not?
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Post by lugnutz on Jan 20, 2009 17:52:08 GMT -5
I sure didn't mean to run anyone off but I couldnt disagree with that guy more. First he claims the youth hunt was a "management" hunt......IT'S NOT! And even if it were, tell me of any other management hunt in the state where you are not allowed to shoot a buck deer, military, state parks, refuge all allow the taking of buck deer, actually they allow the taking of an additional buck deer and then some! Second he claims that we are spoiling our children by allowing them to "go first". Isn't that the gentlemanly thing to do? How can you tell a 10 year old child that he is to compete with a 40 year old man who has 30 years of experiance when it comes to deer hunting. Tell me what sport allows 10 year old kids to compete with 40 year old men. The bottom line is that Indiana needs a youth deer hunt. It's a tool that can be used to recruit new deer hunters and insure our sport never dies. It should allow the youth the opportunity to shoot at least one deer of any sex, kids will typically shoot the first deer that presents a shot. A youth hunter is just that a youth hunter. We need to decide what a youth hunter is and allow all of those youths to partisapate. Sure some youths will be more mature than other youths, that is just a fact of life. I can't think of any sort of a test to determine the maturity of a youth so we must use an age limit. 1st of all hunting seasons and bag limits are forms of "critter" management. 2nd Their is nothing Gentlemanly when it comes to hunting, a youth hunter still has to hunt the same deer that "experienced" hunters hunt for the remainder of the year. Not to many youths that i know of, that like to hunt, will be pleased to hunt only 2 days of the year. Therefor will have to battle with us experienced hunters.
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Post by lugnutz on Jan 20, 2009 17:54:57 GMT -5
Just outa curiosity what is the purpose of allowing the 2 day youth hunters an opprotunity to take a buck deer? Hunter recruitment has already been accomplished by allowing this two day hunt. Isn't that its sole responsibility? I personally could care less either way. Just can't see shouting hunter recruitment, as the need to shoot a buck. Good question....the answer is why not? Everybody else that hunts has a chance at both while they are hunting. Deer are born close to one buck to one doe in most all places, so they should also be harvested in the same ratio. Since the day of the cavemen, antlers have been praised by the hunters in search of animals, even when they were forced to hunt for survival. The allure is still there, albeit for different reasons. No child should be left behind when it comes to hunting. Let them have the same chances that adults have IF you really want them to stay in the game. Ummm, when hasn't the youths had the same/better opprotunities than the adults have when it comes to deer hunting? IF you all really wanna give the youths some sort of an advantage, give them a week, or back to back weekends, give them more "alone" time in the woods without having to battle the "orange army"
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Post by shouldernuke on Jan 20, 2009 19:39:57 GMT -5
I do not think antlered deer should betaken on the youth hunt at all .It was never meant as a regular season and it is a deer management hunt . Being a kid should not entitle them to just take off of the top of the crop .Since when is killing bucks a management tool? They need to learn that there is competition for those bucks among all Indiana deer hunters that they have the same chance every other hunter here has ..Sorry but that is my feelings on this. These are your words! Are they not? Yes and as I said before I do not mince word had I meant trophy bucks I would of said those word .Like I posted in a previous thread there is nothing stopping a kid that wants to hunt the regular season from hunting it now is there . Usesing the two day season for it is lame IMHO.I explained all this earlier and will not again I am not some newbe hunter that is worried about getting my buck .I owe you no further explanation.If you want to know what I meant read up a few threads .<EDIT> you want your kids to shoot a buck give up some of your time and tree stands to them in the 3 regular deer season types until they score one .Thats all I did and still had time to take the bucks I wanted in the past.We simply will not agree most land owners do not agree with the general hunting public from the city/towns anyways.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 20, 2009 19:48:05 GMT -5
Fellers,
I just got back from vacation and I drove 840 miles in 13 hours so I am NOT in the mood for personal attacks.
If you want to persist in that then take it to PM.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 20, 2009 20:03:59 GMT -5
My biggest contention is that NO deer hunter group goes afield at any time with any sex harvest restraint UNLESS they have already filled their one and only buck tag.
Why should it be any different for youths?
Kids cant kill a buck during the youth season, but two days later dad and uncle and anyone and everyone else can kill it. Explain that to me..Better yet, explain it to the kid that had to pass up the buck when "dad and uncle and anyone and everyone else" checks him in two days later. THAT IS POOR!!
As for the age... make it consistant in the regulation. IOW- When are some "youths" not a "youth"? Why during the "youth" season, of course...
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Post by lugnutz on Jan 20, 2009 21:02:00 GMT -5
My biggest contention is that NO deer hunter group goes afield at any time with any sex harvest restraint UNLESS they have already filled their one and only buck tag. Why should it be any different for youths? Kids cant kill a buck during the youth season, but two days later dad and uncle and anyone and everyone else can kill it. Explain that to me..Better yet, explain it to the kid that had to pass up the buck when "dad and uncle and anyone and everyone else" checks him in two days later. THAT IS POOR!! As for the age... make it consistant in the regulation. IOW- When are some "youths" not a "youth"? Why during the "youth" season, of course... Poor as you may think it is, it could happen regardless if youths were able to kill either sex. Besides, cant that same youth hunt right along side his Uncle, dad or whomever those same days they are afield? Do you honestly think that 2 days is adequate time,,,that is worse than what sex they can harvest. If you wanna change something with the special youth hunt,,,,extend it for the youths,,,besides youths need time to grow and learn, i'm sure most could care less what they harvest as long as they have the opprotunity to do so.
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Post by lugnutz on Jan 20, 2009 21:03:33 GMT -5
Fellers, I just got back from vacation and I drove 840 miles in 13 hours so I am NOT in the mood for personal attacks. If you want to persist in that then take it to PM. were's the fun it that? Geeze Woody
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 20, 2009 21:18:10 GMT -5
My biggest contention is that NO deer hunter group goes afield at any time with any sex harvest restraint UNLESS they have already filled their one and only buck tag. Why should it be any different for youths? Kids cant kill a buck during the youth season, but two days later dad and uncle and anyone and everyone else can kill it. Explain that to me..Better yet, explain it to the kid that had to pass up the buck when "dad and uncle and anyone and everyone else" checks him in two days later. THAT IS POOR!! As for the age... make it consistant in the regulation. IOW- When are some "youths" not a "youth"? Why during the "youth" season, of course... Poor as you may think it is, it could happen regardless if youths were able to kill either sex. Besides, cant that same youth hunt right along side his Uncle, dad or whomever those same days they are afield? Uh, no it can't happen. I'm talking about the youth passing up the buck because it is required for him to do so. I am not talking about voluntarily passing up the buck or not being able to get a shot off. A LOT of the younger youths can not pull a hunting weight bow back so they would have to wait until the gun season to try it again. Again, why should the youth hunters be limited to antlerless only, when no one else is? I think a weekend is a good start. I would prefer it to be closer to the gun season start though, but there would be an uproar on that one. Sure, lets just let the youths sit there and watch a few bucks go by. That will hook them. LOL.
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