|
Post by Woody Williams on Jan 16, 2009 19:20:31 GMT -5
............. Woody, the accident I referenced occurred during the youth only turkey weekend. Not a good thing any time, but definitely magnified under the "youth only" umbrella. I hope to never read about another one.....and oppose this change because it increases the odds that I will. I had not heard of that one. Can you expound some? No doubt the more people/youths hunting the more chances of someone getting hurt. So, should we limit the number of youths to be more safe or should we try to hook as many as we can? ? Sorry, but I think this has went rather well. Not your favor, but we can all give our opinions, right?
|
|
|
Post by indianahick on Jan 17, 2009 17:58:23 GMT -5
Upon reading most of the comments here, I agree 100% with allowing a buck to be taken in a youth hunt. Should have been that way to start with. I have also changed my mind about the age qualification. 17 years old on day of hunt is just fine. My original opinion is because I personally consider someone that is over 16 and has a drivers license a young adult and not a youth. Youths can not get a drivers license because of age. I also like the idea of the chaperon being 21, that should pretty well get away from a 18 year old going out with is 17 year old buddy. Doesn't mean that the 21 year old can't be a buddy too. But should eliminate some of the hi jinx.
|
|
|
Post by shouldernuke on Jan 18, 2009 1:10:15 GMT -5
I do not think antlered deer should betaken on the youth hunt at all .It was never ment as a regular season and it is a deer management hunt .Its true intent was to put kids into the feild with parents for the future of the sport .I think there honestly is no room for an early gun season for bucks in Indiana.Being a kid should not intitle them to just take off of the top of the crop .Since when is killing bucks a management tool?
They need to learn that there is compititon for those bucks amongst all Indiana deer hunters that they have the same chance every other hunter here has . Being new is no reason for intitlement is it ?A kid has never appriciated anything that was just given to them. My boys earned thier first bucks in regular season ,I earned mine in regular season ,as did my father ,and his father did .Todays youth should not be treated any differntly then it might just mean more to them in the long run.
Spoiling kids just because they are kids is a bad Idea IMHO.Sorry but that is my feelings on this.
|
|
|
Post by cambygsp on Jan 18, 2009 8:23:21 GMT -5
Since when did the youth hunt become a "management" hunt?
And if everyone should get the same chance at that buck then all weapons should be legal on the same day, I mean why spoil bow hunters just because they use bows?
Sociaty has changed quite a bit over the years, being a kid is not like it was when I was a kid. We HAVE to recruit new deer hunters or the sport will die a slow death.
The only management I see in the youth hunt is the kids that get to hunt the youth hunt today will be the deer managers tomorrow.
Most "kids" are going to shoot the first deer they see.
|
|
|
Post by Decatur on Jan 18, 2009 8:32:39 GMT -5
There are a couple portions of your post I do agree with... A kid has never appriciated anything that was just given to them. AND... then it might just mean more to them in the long run. However, that being said, it is much more important to encourage new hunters than to worry about if they are getting "spoiled". Personally, I think your post reeks of antler driven jealousy. Attitudes like yours may someday be the death of hunting as we know it due to the fact that it does not assist with the very much needed hunter recruitment. If you're not part of the cure, you are part of the problem.
|
|
|
Post by schall53 on Jan 18, 2009 8:49:05 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by trapperdave on Jan 18, 2009 9:51:56 GMT -5
Upon reading most of the comments here, I agree 100% with allowing a buck to be taken in a youth hunt. Should have been that way to start with. I have also changed my mind about the age qualification. 17 years old on day of hunt is just fine. My original opinion is because I personally consider someone that is over 16 and has a drivers license a young adult and not a youth. Youths can not get a drivers license because of age. I also like the idea of the chaperon being 21, that should pretty well get away from a 18 year old going out with is 17 year old buddy. Doesn't mean that the 21 year old can't be a buddy too. But should eliminate some of the hi jinx. Guess again, new law just went into effect a few days ago, ya gotta be 18 now to get a drivers lisence. About darn time too!
|
|
|
Post by shouldernuke on Jan 18, 2009 11:53:45 GMT -5
I promise I have no antler driven jealousy .My wall and walls on my sons rooms are coved with big bucks .I am simply tired of the new wave of hunters making up reasons to change what worked and works for hunting.Quite frankly if a kid dose not want to hunt that is fine with me .You new deer hunters less than 10 or 15 years out there must want hunters stuffed in every tree by the responses you give to threads like these .
Also I convinced this is Mir about the dnr driving for tag sales than real concern for the sport .Hunter numbers in Indiana are at an all time high after a 3 year dip after the $10.00 raise in tag prices and the one buck rule took effect .That however is short lived .At last count there were 217,000 deer hunters in Indiana when I started there were less than 70,000 .I stand by what I said this is about something other than hunter recruitment and keeping the sport alive.Not everyone deer hunted when was a beginning deer hunter here 33 years ago so why should they be now.
Not sure how to post pics on here but our bucks litter the record books and my boys took two more that will score in the 130s this year one with a bow one day prior to gun season and the other the Monday fallowing gun opener .You and no body on here knows me or mine except for a few and those that do know me are literally laughing at your presumptive little critique of me pitiful.
I think honestly if a kid wants to hunt he or she will and some contrived season is not a neccesity .Any kid who wants to hunt and fallow in dads footsteps they will if not oh well it is what it is .I think this is more about dads than the kid with alot of so called supporters.Anyone who had started hunting since befor the youth season is proof that in thier own flesh that this is a bunk .People /kids will be what they want to .Lets face it if you have an atheat ,vidio gamer or what ever its still tuff or a fight to get them to the woods without a fight .So that season still dose not make them a hunter or want to go now dose it it all rest on the greedy fathers who are not wanting to bother with jounior durring regular season.IMHO give up you regular season like I did to get you kid into hunting and in shooting position for a deer .Now who has the antler jelousy/greed ?
|
|
|
Post by cambygsp on Jan 18, 2009 12:02:36 GMT -5
Were they spoliing the youths Thurdsay when flight 1549 went down in the Hudson River.......after all they did let the children (and women) evacuate FIRST.
|
|
|
Post by shouldernuke on Jan 18, 2009 12:21:11 GMT -5
Oh please Mr ridiculous Camby that crash was real life and death and so sad .Any man that would not lay down his life for a child in this type of a situation is trash .This thread is about a hobby that apparently some mistake for real life .Not everyone is cut out to hunt dragging them out to hunt for two days may recruit some hunters but for those that do not want to hunt its just two more days doing something that thy do not want to do. I mean everone has went bowling yet there are not that many hobby bowlers .If there were the complaints of its too crowded and its no fun I come to relax would be spilling in on the Indiana bowling chat site/line now wouldn't it.
Your analogy wreaks of sarcasm and ignorance .The fact you can not differentiate between real life and death vs. Some ridiculous little hobby excludes you from any real intelligent conversations on this whole subject .
I am sorry but to have to degraded to this low a form for the sake of an argument on this subject truly is asinine in its self.
|
|
|
Post by Decatur on Jan 18, 2009 13:29:01 GMT -5
It IS about hunter recruitment. The world has changed a lot since you and I were kids. Most people come from an urban environment where they probably won't be exposed to guns, hunting, fishing and trapping. It is a necessary evil of the times we live in!
|
|
|
Post by hornharvester on Jan 18, 2009 13:35:38 GMT -5
Youth hunts are all about youth recruitment. Don't believe me just ask Jack, he was a co-author on getting the season passed.
I find it rather selfish and greedy for someone wanting to take the opportunity to shoot a buck away from the youth during that weekend just because they are worried the kids might kill a trophy buck before they get the chance.
If it were up to me youth hunters would be able to kill a buck on youth weekend and take another during the rest of the season with any weapon. Other words they would get two bucks a year. h.h.
|
|
|
Post by Decatur on Jan 18, 2009 13:40:10 GMT -5
Youth hunts are all about youth recruitment. Don't believe me just ask Jack, he was a co-author on getting the season passed. I find it rather selfish and greedy for someone wanting to take the opportunity to shoot a buck away from the youth during that weekend just because they are worried the kids might kill a trophy buck before they get the chance. If it were up to me youth hunters would be able to kill a buck on youth weekend and take another during the rest of the season with any weapon. Other words they would get two bucks a year. h.h.
|
|
|
Post by freedomhunter on Jan 18, 2009 16:48:40 GMT -5
I'm all for dedicating the first weekend of regular firearms to the youth hunters, no other hunting. Late September or early October is too early to put firearm pressure on our deer herd. Be a nice gift from us adults.
|
|
|
Post by shouldernuke on Jan 18, 2009 16:57:43 GMT -5
Youth hunts are all about youth recruitment. Don't believe me just ask Jack, he was a co-author on getting the season passed. I find it rather selfish and greedy for someone wanting to take the opportunity to shoot a buck away from the youth during that weekend just because they are worried the kids might kill a trophy buck before they get the chance. If it were up to me youth hunters would be able to kill a buck on youth weekend and take another during the rest of the season with any weapon. Other words they would get two bucks a year. h.h. Now you wait just a a minute there with the lie in your quota. I first of all never said that I was worried or implied that I was worried they {kids} would take a trophy deer in their two day season that actually is laughable that you twist words to villanize me and my words .I said they have all season just likeveryone else to take their bucks just as my two sons do!!They simply did not get this consideration now that someones kids or grandkids are of age to participate I and all the other fathers who would of welcomed this for our kids me included are now expected blindly to fall in line with overwhelming support of this after pushing for this same sort of thing . I think not! This is no different from the 15 years of head coaching football and baseball I did and dealing with their parents/grand parents I did .I cant help it its little Johnny's not a grate or new at "insert what ever" ___________ here .If he sticks it out and you give him help and worry less about how you political advance him he will be a great "insert here __________ in this case deer hunting! That is actually what this is about I have seen it be for and its not fair to just to the thousands of kids be for this batch now is it you want them to be instantly rewarded just for stepping on the Field .Life dose not work this way? Secondly we have way way enough land on our farms for me to not even to not Bethe least bit concerned about some kid taking a buck that would happen to be growing on our fames .Secondly I do not care who helped author what I simply disagree with the whole buck thing .This is just like any thing else that has ever been implemented here eventually it is never enough .I fully supported the two day antler less season for what is was and it was mentioned in the original meetings as a" management tool as well as a recruitment hunt" .But now it is being perverted into simple parents pushing horn porn now .This misses the whole point of original intent of the youth hunt.I am sorry that is the way I feel . I supported the original two day youth season for what its original intent was not what is being ramrodded through now .They get one buck in regular season like every kid or adult that ever went hunting before them .Life simply is not fair at times what makes this fair to those that passed into this sport be for the new kids . But what is more fair than a level playing Field for all .Now maybe you see the point.There will always be a rise in hunting numbers every few years that has been pr oven here since the first season up to now.
|
|
|
Post by Decatur on Jan 18, 2009 18:28:29 GMT -5
I see shouldernuke has left us already. That didn't take long! Guess some people don't like a difference of opinion? Hopefully he'll come back after he cools down?
|
|
|
Post by hornharvester on Jan 18, 2009 18:42:26 GMT -5
II think there honestly is no room for an early gun season for bucks in Indiana.Being a kid should not intitle them to just take off of the top of the crop. shouldernuke is gone but isnt this quote just what i said it was? h.h.
|
|
|
Post by cambygsp on Jan 19, 2009 5:08:19 GMT -5
I sure didn't mean to run anyone off but I couldnt disagree with that guy more.
First he claims the youth hunt was a "management" hunt......IT'S NOT!
And even if it were, tell me of any other management hunt in the state where you are not allowed to shoot a buck deer, military, state parks, refuge all allow the taking of buck deer, actually they allow the taking of an additional buck deer and then some!
Second he claims that we are spoiling our children by allowing them to "go first".
Isn't that the gentlemanly thing to do? How can you tell a 10 year old child that he is to compete with a 40 year old man who has 30 years of experiance when it comes to deer hunting. Tell me what sport allows 10 year old kids to compete with 40 year old men.
The bottom line is that Indiana needs a youth deer hunt. It's a tool that can be used to recruit new deer hunters and insure our sport never dies.
It should allow the youth the opportunity to shoot at least one deer of any sex, kids will typically shoot the first deer that presents a shot.
A youth hunter is just that a youth hunter. We need to decide what a youth hunter is and allow all of those youths to partisapate. Sure some youths will be more mature than other youths, that is just a fact of life. I can't think of any sort of a test to determine the maturity of a youth so we must use an age limit.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Jan 19, 2009 8:23:27 GMT -5
Pav, Nothing personal but after reading all your posts on this subject IMO this age restriction you are for is nothing more than a smoke screen for another reason. h.h. Well, no offense, but you couldn't be more wrong. The DNR solicited input for changing the bag limit on the youth deer season from antlerless only to either sex. THAT is the proposal that should be on the table. IMO, that change received enough support (including mine) to pass without further study. It is NOT proper to throw a chain in the spokes by making additional changes that did not receive the same opportunity for input. Whether you agree with the age change or not, anyone that provided input on the either sex change should be disappointed with the DNR for adding ANYTHING additional to that proposal. When and who did they seek "input" from, pav? This is the first that WE have officially heard of any input on this subject that is needed from them. Who are these "anyones"?
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Jan 19, 2009 8:31:49 GMT -5
Sorry pav... I've only had to read about 190,000 posts here so I guess some are forgotten. Again, you have not answered about a saftey factor in extending the age limit. I asked - "Twice you have brought up "safety". Please tell us what you mean by that. Is allowing 16 to 18 year olds more unsafe for the hunters in the field? Or is the "safety" part that was "debated" about some 16 - 18 year old that MIGHT drive themselves to hunt and thus MIGHT have an accident while driving? Are not the same 16 to 18 year olds REQUIRED to have someone with them that is 18 and above that has a regular license? Having a regular license requires a HE certificate doesn't it?"
|
|