Serious Question RE: Antler/Non-Antler grumpiness

Swilk,

That is a REAL BIG brush that you painting the people that oppose the OBR with. Niether side can make such a claim that everyone who is for the OBR is an "antler junkie"or all of the opposition are just "happy to kill any buck ... and want to kill more than one."

The hunters that I see that are opposed to the OBR are basically just like you - they want to hunt the big bucks.

What they don't want is to have to do is stop hunting that big buck after they kill one - IF they kill that one. They are just as much, if not more, of a trophy hunter than anyone on here.

Can we be happy with one big buck IF WE GET IT? Sure! It is not the killing of the second buck that we get off on, it is the HUNTING of that second buck.

It is tough enough to kill one big buck in this state, never mind two - with two different pieces of equipment.

We have to remember that the two buck rules was for one with archery equipment and one with a firearm. 96+% of the deer hunters in Indiana did not fulfill that double in any given year.

Jim Mitchell said that only about 6,000 deer hunters killed two bucks in a year. Now with the OBR that means about 25,000 deer hunters sit out the second buck hunting - just as your friend is getting ready to do on November 18th..

DEC,

Good post.

But, just because we want to hunt two bucks (if we are lucky or good enough to get one) is no sign that we don't do the same things that you do - pass the little ones and wait on Mr. Big.

I hunt just about the same as you. I differ in that if I am lucky enough or good enough to take a good buck with a bow, I still want the opportunity to hunt on opening morning of the firearm season for the deer of my choice - another big buck.

If it was legal, would I kill another big buck? Probably not as the odds against it and my past history of deer hunting is against me. Very seldom did I or any of my hunting buddies actually have two big buck kills in one year. We don't shoot any 1 1/2 year olds and very few 2 1/2 year olds.

What I have seen is the number of "brown and downers" is dwindling and being replaced by deer managers who set their sights high for a big buck.

What really bothers me is this is not about the health of the herd at all. The DNR statement on biology versus social at the meeting was very telling. This is an attempt by some to grow trophies, when we already had them.

I see it as a major sacrifice for very little, if any, gain.

Your "might possibly" statement was in your first sentence about "antler junkies" when you said "I think the people who are apposed to the OBR might possibly be more "antler junkies" than those who support it."

I don't think either side has a monopoly on the "antler junkies."

My broad brush statement was about where you said - "They are happy to kill any buck ... and want to kill more than one."

Nothing "careful" about that statement at all.

I'm glad that you area is working out for you. What makes it special is that it was all voluntary.

I don't believe that the state, and certainly not a bunch of other hunters, can make a better judgment on what needs to be done (harvest wise) with your area or mine than you and I can make, do you?

Thanks guys. I'm starting to get a better picture. And Swilk, your comment about anti OBR folks just possibly being more "antler hungry" than the Pro folks (though I think PBR's example is likely more accurate) - who are limiting themselves - was one of my main areas of confusion. Too many Psychology classes I suppose.

DEC: Thank you for your POV. I missed out on the all the original OBR arguments, so I also missed out on anything that either was or could be considered to be the personal attacks that lead you (and others) to be somewhat defensive. Thank you for clearing that up.

As for me, because I'm most interested in Body size, I can see how the OBR limits my choices in shooting a big deer because, well, large bodied Bucks tend to have large racks - whether I want the rack or not.

But, as I said, this whole midwest hunting scene is new to me, so I take it as I find it when it comes to game management (at least here you have too many deer... I've lived in places where EVERYBODY has to draw for even ONE tag...)

I'm going to be extremely happy to fill ONE of my tags... that's my "ODR". At least one Deer or I go bash my head on a brick wall... again.

Just a question ... you say "If I haven't got any meat in the freezer and a mature buck walks by my stand, he is dead. Don't care if he is a 6 pt or a 12pt, I want the meat."

How many "mature" 6 pointers have you seen in your life? I agree that age and points dont necessarily go hand in hand so it is possible to have a mature 6 pointer. But it would be the exception rather than the rule. Mature is generally considered a minimum of 3.5 years old and usually 4.5 or 5.5.

So, will you shoot the first buck that walks by or will you only shoot a mature buck? Doent make a difference to me one way or the other just curious because your statement contridicted itself.

OK. So you see a 150lb 4th grader and a 140lb 25 year old man .... which one is mature?

Maturity doesnt include body weight or antler size. It only includes age.

No. Clarifying that maturity has nothing to do with body weight is not arguing.

I dont know when the last time I saw a 120lb 5 year old deer ... but I see 170lb 1.5 and 2.5 year old deer each year. And in spite of their larger body size they are not mature.

Not arguing at all .... just discussing.

Can't you just as easily "get off" on the killing of the doe early in the season, and then REALLY "get off" on the HUNTING of that one buck???

I would have to completely disagree with that.

swilk-antler type is genetic to an extent, even to some non-typicals. If daddy has 6 points his proginy will have six. They are on the lesser side but they do exist.
A 2.5 or 3.5 deer tastes better than a 4.5 or older. Yes there is more meat in the older 4.5 but if you cook it and everyone complains about the jelly stuff in the meat and does not eat then it was a waste.
Now then I hunt a 1/4 mile from a cattle farm, lots of wooded area and salt block for the cattle guess where most of the deer go. Last year starting in Oct and ending in Dec I saw a total of 16 deer maybe. My son who only hunted shotgun saw 5. 4 of which were being chased by some farm dogs and went thru where he was a high speed. I am not the only person that has access to this farm so have to share with several others. In my 36 years of hunting I have not killed anywhere near 100 deer and there have been many that the only thing that I have taken is a mature doe or more than one.
Do I personally try to pass up buttons and 1.5's, yes. I mainly hunt by body size trying for a minumum weight of 150 to a max of 200. That is the good eating zone. The lead doe will generally run for 140 to 155. That skinny little thing that is wandering around with the neck of a pencil and the head of a youth football is a button. Can you tell what it is without bino's? Or since it is small it is not good enough for you.
And no it is not just a continuation of a thought it is exactly what and how you feel. You made that apperant in your first comment about wishing that brown and down hunters should be regulated so that they would not shoot that little deer.
Dec and most of the other admitted big antler hunters are not near the antler elitist that you seem to be.