Post by Woody Williams on Aug 5, 2005 7:14:51 GMT -5
This post has been moved from the crossbow forum from a thread entitled “ Will Bowsite be far behind??”
huntingindiana.proboards52.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=crossbow&thread=1123119124&page=1
JBWhittail,
If you want to argue crossbows AGAIN.. This is the proper place to do it. Carry on..
WW – Not sure who the "WE" is in your statement, but "YOU" are on record as saying crossbows should not have a season at all at anytime.
No one is “pushing anyone aside”. Just as in Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, and Virginia NO bowhunter has to step aside for a crossbower to go into the woods. They conducted a poll down in Tennessee and 37% of the BOWHUTNERS would try the crossbow the first season. Not all said they would hunt exclusively with it, but they were going to try it. It seems that they recognize that it is just another fine archery hunting tool.
Contrary to all the doom saying by the bowhunters and the bowhunter organizations the sky hasn’t fell in any of the states that have legalized crossbows as archery equipment.
It utterly amazes me that the P & Y club declared "crossbows as the biggest threat to bowhunting” right after two large ARF groups joined together with a $98 million dollar war chest and said BOWHUNTING IS THEIR NUMBER ONE TARGET.
Seems to me that they would be welcoming the hunters into bow season to help stave off these ARF groups rather than trying to pick a fight with them and the ATA.
WW – Exactly what does the degree of difficulty in mastering a certain piece of hunting equipment have to do with the actual hunt?
Does not 90+% of the bowhunters today search for easier and quicker methods of shooting better and killing a deer easier?
I walked the halls at the ATA show this last February and almost every product there pointed to "easier".
"Use this and get that big buck"..."Use this and your accuracy will improve"... use this and that buck will never smell you - just hunt..'.. "use this sight and you don;t ahve to judge yardage"... and on and one and on..
Why do 93% of the bowhunters today shoot and hunt with an easier method called the compound bow when they could go the harder route of a traditional bow?
Even if the bowhunter uses a compound or chooses a traditional bow are there any “practice police” out there to be sure that they are proficient with their chosen hunting tool?
So how can 93% of the bowhunters that seeks an "easier" way deride anyone else for seeking an "easier" way? That doesn't figure to me..
If crossbowing is easier why are the kill rate percentages equal in states where both are allowed at the same time? That is where the rubber meets the road. And THAT is what the DNRs look at..
The statement of ..."Now the deer can hang up behind a tree as long as they want to " could very well be applied to most of the higher let off compound bows too. As you know they do have a 99 percent let off compound bow out now. How long can someone hold back 6/10s of a pound ?
WW – A “crossbow license” is redundant. We already have an archery license that is used by the crossbowers today in late season or by the physically challenged during any part of archery season.
I’ve asked you why should crossbowers need a separate license and you have yet to give me a good answer.
“To know the number of crossbowers out there?”
Nope...The IDNR does not know how many of ANY type of method hunter is out there and they wouldn’t know by crossbow sales how many crossbowers are out ther either. With 41% of the deer hunters in this state not buying a yearly deer tag at all they would nto be able to tell except by survey. The survey is the same method that they use to determine the othe ruser numbers.
“Number of deer killed with a crossbow?”
Nope... We already have to declare what we killed a deer with when we check in. That number is already reported on the IDNR web page.
“Revenue?”
Nope...$24 is $24 no matter if the tag says “archery or “crossbow.”
No.. the reason you want a separate tag is you can then say “It is separate hunting tool and doesn’t belong in archery season.”
“Put it somewhere else or keep it where it is at”. You want a short-range archery hunting tool to be relegated to the tail end of the season after the deer have been hunted, chased and shot at for two months. Is that any way to treat a fellow hunter?
You guys have already showed your hand on athat one..
WW – I don’t have a clue. Do you? Last time it was 60 – 40 against early archery season with a virtual tie for firearm season. Since crossbows are gaining in popularity that might be closer this time around. One never knows.
Not too sure that the IDNR will base their decision on purely what the hunters survey shows. They have other things to consider besides “social issues”. Why would they let that dictate 100% what they do? Making decisions like that would be like two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for dinner.
You see the IDNR has a problem like many other states – too many deer and not enough hunters/revenues. The cutting back of IDNR employees and the loosening up of antlerless permits points that out very well.
JB,
Why do you think that the IDNR even had that question on there if they are not thinking along the lines of expanding hunter opportunities through further expanding crossbow hunting? Surveys are too expensive to just put anything at all on them. the same with teh "youth hutn".
You’ve accused me of “living in the past”... What are you doing on this one?
WW- Since you have seen it and I haven’t then I would say that you are probably correct. But, when you use that survey against increasing hunter opportunities through expanding crossbow useage I will ask for the raw numbers and not just a percentage. There will be no repeat of the OBR where two groups said that XX percent of their members voted this way or that way. You will play honest in providing those numbers and not just percentages to the IDNR wont you?
There are a good number of people on here that have posted about nothing but crossbows. To some that is their favorite method of hunting. Should I monitor and delegate what each person can post about? Yes, certain people have agendas and I have to watch very carefully that they do not high jack threads for that agenda. A fine line to walk without squelching free speech.
Each “hunting weapon” board on here is for sharing of information pertaining to that particular hunting tool. I would request that if anyone wants to “debate” or argue whether a certain hunting tool should be legal or not to take it to “The Campfire” and not muck up that board..
One of the main gripes about HH and the old IndianaSportsmen.com was that every thread started ended up in two or three guys arguing about something or another. I was as guilty of that as many others were.
I’m trying to keep that arguing out of these boards and into an area of it’s own. To be quite honest about it I was considered having a “CAGE” board where it was no holds barred and every person that wanted to argue could go there instead of mucking up all of the rest of the board.
For now “The Campfire” will suffice.
JB,
I appreciate you posting here because you do have a wealth of information to share. I do not agree with all of it, but I and others do listen. For the most part you have remained very civil and I also appreciate that. I will try and be fair minded about all of this and treat everyone as equals. I have deleted several post that were personal attacks and will continue to do so.
People on here do not have to agree with each other, but they can do it in a civil way. As you know running hunting board in Indiana is not easy and I’m sure I’ll make a mistake or a dozen but I will do my best.
I’m doing this all for the love of hunting and the Indiana hunters..
huntingindiana.proboards52.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=crossbow&thread=1123119124&page=1
JBWhittail,
If you want to argue crossbows AGAIN.. This is the proper place to do it. Carry on..
Jbwhttail - You know we never had a problem with a crossbow or a crossbow season. But what you and a few others are trying to do is push bowhunters aside and invade that season. For that you have no other explanation other than "we" want it. We deserve it, it is a bow.”
WW – Not sure who the "WE" is in your statement, but "YOU" are on record as saying crossbows should not have a season at all at anytime.
No one is “pushing anyone aside”. Just as in Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, and Virginia NO bowhunter has to step aside for a crossbower to go into the woods. They conducted a poll down in Tennessee and 37% of the BOWHUTNERS would try the crossbow the first season. Not all said they would hunt exclusively with it, but they were going to try it. It seems that they recognize that it is just another fine archery hunting tool.
Contrary to all the doom saying by the bowhunters and the bowhunter organizations the sky hasn’t fell in any of the states that have legalized crossbows as archery equipment.
It utterly amazes me that the P & Y club declared "crossbows as the biggest threat to bowhunting” right after two large ARF groups joined together with a $98 million dollar war chest and said BOWHUNTING IS THEIR NUMBER ONE TARGET.
Seems to me that they would be welcoming the hunters into bow season to help stave off these ARF groups rather than trying to pick a fight with them and the ATA.
Jbwhttail - I read on this site all the articles and each one tells how easy, how quick and how it needs little practice, yet you want to lead people to believe it is just like archery equipment. Here is a quote today........."Now the deer can hang up behind a tree as long as they want to. " Yes sir that is archery as it was intended!!
WW – Exactly what does the degree of difficulty in mastering a certain piece of hunting equipment have to do with the actual hunt?
Does not 90+% of the bowhunters today search for easier and quicker methods of shooting better and killing a deer easier?
I walked the halls at the ATA show this last February and almost every product there pointed to "easier".
"Use this and get that big buck"..."Use this and your accuracy will improve"... use this and that buck will never smell you - just hunt..'.. "use this sight and you don;t ahve to judge yardage"... and on and one and on..
Why do 93% of the bowhunters today shoot and hunt with an easier method called the compound bow when they could go the harder route of a traditional bow?
Even if the bowhunter uses a compound or chooses a traditional bow are there any “practice police” out there to be sure that they are proficient with their chosen hunting tool?
So how can 93% of the bowhunters that seeks an "easier" way deride anyone else for seeking an "easier" way? That doesn't figure to me..
If crossbowing is easier why are the kill rate percentages equal in states where both are allowed at the same time? That is where the rubber meets the road. And THAT is what the DNRs look at..
The statement of ..."Now the deer can hang up behind a tree as long as they want to " could very well be applied to most of the higher let off compound bows too. As you know they do have a 99 percent let off compound bow out now. How long can someone hold back 6/10s of a pound ?
Jbwhttail - You refuse to support a license, all because you fear that 59% of archery hunters in this State.
WW – A “crossbow license” is redundant. We already have an archery license that is used by the crossbowers today in late season or by the physically challenged during any part of archery season.
I’ve asked you why should crossbowers need a separate license and you have yet to give me a good answer.
“To know the number of crossbowers out there?”
Nope...The IDNR does not know how many of ANY type of method hunter is out there and they wouldn’t know by crossbow sales how many crossbowers are out ther either. With 41% of the deer hunters in this state not buying a yearly deer tag at all they would nto be able to tell except by survey. The survey is the same method that they use to determine the othe ruser numbers.
“Number of deer killed with a crossbow?”
Nope... We already have to declare what we killed a deer with when we check in. That number is already reported on the IDNR web page.
“Revenue?”
Nope...$24 is $24 no matter if the tag says “archery or “crossbow.”
No.. the reason you want a separate tag is you can then say “It is separate hunting tool and doesn’t belong in archery season.”
“Put it somewhere else or keep it where it is at”. You want a short-range archery hunting tool to be relegated to the tail end of the season after the deer have been hunted, chased and shot at for two months. Is that any way to treat a fellow hunter?
You guys have already showed your hand on athat one..
Jbwhttail - Well Woody, how would you think the DNR survey will come out?
WW – I don’t have a clue. Do you? Last time it was 60 – 40 against early archery season with a virtual tie for firearm season. Since crossbows are gaining in popularity that might be closer this time around. One never knows.
Not too sure that the IDNR will base their decision on purely what the hunters survey shows. They have other things to consider besides “social issues”. Why would they let that dictate 100% what they do? Making decisions like that would be like two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for dinner.
You see the IDNR has a problem like many other states – too many deer and not enough hunters/revenues. The cutting back of IDNR employees and the loosening up of antlerless permits points that out very well.
JB,
Why do you think that the IDNR even had that question on there if they are not thinking along the lines of expanding hunter opportunities through further expanding crossbow hunting? Surveys are too expensive to just put anything at all on them. the same with teh "youth hutn".
You’ve accused me of “living in the past”... What are you doing on this one?
I also have the IDHA survey, you wont like that either.
WW- Since you have seen it and I haven’t then I would say that you are probably correct. But, when you use that survey against increasing hunter opportunities through expanding crossbow useage I will ask for the raw numbers and not just a percentage. There will be no repeat of the OBR where two groups said that XX percent of their members voted this way or that way. You will play honest in providing those numbers and not just percentages to the IDNR wont you?
Look at one of the members posts here, ALL of his posts lead to crossbow, Do I need to name him?
There are a good number of people on here that have posted about nothing but crossbows. To some that is their favorite method of hunting. Should I monitor and delegate what each person can post about? Yes, certain people have agendas and I have to watch very carefully that they do not high jack threads for that agenda. A fine line to walk without squelching free speech.
But it is OK because it is your agenda , same thing you accused HH.com of....
Each “hunting weapon” board on here is for sharing of information pertaining to that particular hunting tool. I would request that if anyone wants to “debate” or argue whether a certain hunting tool should be legal or not to take it to “The Campfire” and not muck up that board..
One of the main gripes about HH and the old IndianaSportsmen.com was that every thread started ended up in two or three guys arguing about something or another. I was as guilty of that as many others were.
I’m trying to keep that arguing out of these boards and into an area of it’s own. To be quite honest about it I was considered having a “CAGE” board where it was no holds barred and every person that wanted to argue could go there instead of mucking up all of the rest of the board.
For now “The Campfire” will suffice.
JB,
I appreciate you posting here because you do have a wealth of information to share. I do not agree with all of it, but I and others do listen. For the most part you have remained very civil and I also appreciate that. I will try and be fair minded about all of this and treat everyone as equals. I have deleted several post that were personal attacks and will continue to do so.
People on here do not have to agree with each other, but they can do it in a civil way. As you know running hunting board in Indiana is not easy and I’m sure I’ll make a mistake or a dozen but I will do my best.
I’m doing this all for the love of hunting and the Indiana hunters..