|
Post by airgun on May 23, 2016 19:55:53 GMT -5
Just how accurate are today's airrifles? Doesn't matter how accurate the gun is if the person behind it doesn't put their time in. My muzzleloader can hit the same hole at 100 yards. Maybe it needs to be legal too. My TC can also do that (ball and cap iron sites), however I would like to have some turkey to put it on the dining room table. Putting their time in practicing is the key to a bow and arrow, patterning a shot gun, shooting a air rifle. That's half of the fun of the quest of hunting. If if you want to have some fun out of your smok pole, double ball it and shoot it at that 100yard target. One bullet will hit near your point of aim and the second will be around four inch away. It does a nice job on a deer, however you will have to explain if you only shot one time why is ther two holes.
|
|
|
Post by airgun on May 25, 2016 8:01:56 GMT -5
My summary of the thread with the advancement in air guns over the last few years is it time to have air guns to hunt turkeys in Indiana? With a growing list of states permitting hunters to hunt with air guns for deer and turkeys can we be included in that list? a) Air rifles are capable of cleanly harvesting a wild turkey. b) Not everybody is interested in using them. c) There are other tools that might be able to be used in turkey season. d) Air gun education is needed, not everybody understands the advancements in power and their accuracy. e) More patience is needed by the hunter to make a precision head shot. f) Some hunters are concerned with people attempting a body shot. The chance of this is NO different than with other hunting tools.
Am I missing anything else?
|
|
|
Post by GS1 on May 25, 2016 8:37:55 GMT -5
a) Air rifles are capable of cleanly harvesting a wild turkey.
So is a slingshot.
b) Not everybody is interested in using them. c) There are other tools that might be able to be used in turkey season.
There are other tools, already legal, that leave more room for error on the hunters part and result in dead birds where some tools have less margin for error and will result in wounded birds.
d). Air gun education is needed, not everybody understands the advancements in power and their accuracy.
Again, accuracy is up to the person behind the gun.
e) More patience is needed by the hunter to make a precision head shot.
What happens if a bird is hit in the neck and the pellet does not hit any vertebrae?
f) Some hunters are concerned with people attempting a body shot. The chance of this is NO different than with other hunting tools.
The vast majority of hunters know that with a shotgun you aim at the head. I know guys that only aim at the head with bows also. If air guns are so powerful and accurate, why not shoot them at the top of the leg joint?
Am I missing anything else?
There's a lot more hunters who want to protect the turkey population than there are that want to say they shot a turkey with an airgun.
|
|
|
Post by whitetaildave24 on May 25, 2016 9:02:16 GMT -5
a) Air rifles are capable of cleanly harvesting a wild turkey. So is a slingshot. b) Not everybody is interested in using them. c) There are other tools that might be able to be used in turkey season. There are other tools, already legal, that leave more room for error on the hunters part and result in dead birds where some tools have less margin for error and will result in wounded birds. d). Air gun education is needed, not everybody understands the advancements in power and their accuracy. Again, accuracy is up to the person behind the gun. e) More patience is needed by the hunter to make a precision head shot. What happens if a bird is hit in the neck and the pellet does not hit any vertebrae? f) Some hunters are concerned with people attempting a body shot. The chance of this is NO different than with other hunting tools. The vast majority of hunters know that with a shotgun you aim at the head. I know guys that only aim at the head with bows also. If air guns are so powerful and accurate, why not shoot them at the top of the leg joint? Am I missing anything else? There's a lot more hunters who want to protect the turkey population than there are that want to say they shot a turkey with an airgun. You can't be sure your last paragraph is true unless this goes to a vote, which is what he is trying to get accomplished. If it makes it that far and the vote is no, then he can at least say he tried. If it gets votes through then those that want to carry an airgun in the woods can and those that don't like the idea don't have to. Education is the key here, but I'll just wait and see what happens before making any decisions for myself.
|
|
|
Post by sakorifle on May 25, 2016 10:25:01 GMT -5
"""""In Europe they are so "anti guns" the air rifles have became to go to tool, now if they air rifle is too powerful they must have a license to own it."""" Doesn't it concern you that because of their acceptance in Europe as Non "Guns" that the use here might set the stage for the same deal in the USA and be used as a compromise for the anti gun groups ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) UPDATE Scotland has put a law through that airguns have to be liscensed regardless of power, the day of giving the kid an air rifle for christmas in the uk has gone. An air rifle for turkeys as heavy as my roe deer well yes it could be done. yes i would be more confident with my air rifle than a bow because i am a professional rifelman not a bowman. But i am going to be truthfullu honest here and say, would i take my air rifle and try to shoot a roe deer at 10kg. No i would not, i would take something that would give the least chance of wounding, my beloved 308, What would i use for turkeys. The biggest gun i could get away with and have something to eat at the end of it. Why Because thats the way i am. im too tired to run after things , get em down dead, lol but everyone to there own. regards Billy
|
|
|
Post by airgun on May 25, 2016 10:28:07 GMT -5
Gs1, I do not see that in this trend or others. I have a few that have said NO and I have heard them, however I have almost the same amount saying YES. The minority do not care.
All I need to do is get votes from the NRC. Could be this year, or next year, or? But I will keep trying and more states will be added to air rifle turkey hunting states, and Indiana will also one of these days.
A sling shot can be included in the "other tools" area.
Your other points are what? They are facts that we ALL face when we hunt. They are called crippling loses we as GOOD hunters try to limit them as much as possible but they do happen. Are you saying we should stop all hunting because of it?
|
|
|
Post by jjas on May 25, 2016 13:20:55 GMT -5
As I've stated previously in this thread, I'm not interested in using an air gun for turkey hunting, but....it they are legalized I won't throw a fit over it either.
What I am interested in is reading data from a few sources that show the wounding and loss rates from using airguns and what calibers, velocities and pellet shape/construction/materials are recommended for turkey hunting to minimize those losses.
|
|
|
Post by airgun on May 25, 2016 14:08:12 GMT -5
jjas, do you have that information on bows/arrows, crossbows/bolts, shotguns/shells, nor do I. I have offered the DNR to a air rifle to do studies on, I would be glad to provide them with them. As well as going to the range with a turkey head etc... for ballistics study. I am sure they have contacts in the other states that currently have air rifle in turkey season.
|
|
|
Post by airgun on May 25, 2016 14:31:36 GMT -5
I have noticed over may years that we hunters are our worst enemies. It's interesting how we struggle over the small details instead of working together to enhance the hobbie. What we need to do is to get the next generation into the hunting by whatever means available. Shotguns have their benefits but there is a down side. The kick, for a smaller person/youth this could be a issue, bow/arrow are a great tool, but they also have a downside, a thirty five pound draw can be difficult for some people with strength and grip issues, then there is the skill level. Crossbows and bolt have the similar issues as a bow/arrow. Muzzleloaders are similar to shotguns with more complex loading. Air rifles do not have the kick, some do have a heavy cocking systems but their are other options, there is a skill level concern. The shooter needs to practice to become proficient. Wait that is required for all of the tools used to hunt.
What we need to do is take a kid into the woods I do not care if it's with a shotgun, bow, air rifle, crossbow, or even a camera all of fore mention items will work for me. Personally I will be working with my grandchildren with all of the above tools in the back field.
|
|
|
Post by jjas on May 25, 2016 14:53:39 GMT -5
jjas, do you have that information on bows/arrows, crossbows/bolts, shotguns/shells, nor do I. I have offered the DNR to a air rifle to do studies on, I would be glad to provide them with them. As well as going to the range with a turkey head etc... for ballistics study. I am sure they have contacts in the other states that currently have air rifle in turkey season. There is plenty of history that suggests how well bows/bolts/bullets work on game animals and I've read articles on wounding losses and they can be significant. I can't say that I've ever seen a study or an article (or articles) on "air rifle" hunting that stipulates minimum caliber/pellet weight/pellet type and velocity for turkey hunting.
|
|
|
Post by airgun on May 25, 2016 15:11:51 GMT -5
jjas, I do not have the data your after. I am sure the state's that permit air rifle hunting in turkey season did their home work and now they have complete data from hunters. I hope DNR will also do the needed research into air rifles before they permit them. I would hope DNR went to a range with shotguns to shoot and pattern them with all types of chokes, shot size, powder load, etc... as well as calling and asking other states DNRs. before Indiana first turkey hunt. But thank you for wanting to know all about the air rifles effectiveness, I am sure once you find the information you will be impressed with them. I wonder if the UK would have some of the information you are looking for. I
|
|
|
Post by jjas on May 25, 2016 15:44:25 GMT -5
jjas, I do not have the data your after. I am sure the state's that permit air rifle hunting in turkey season did their home work and now they have complete data from hunters. I hope DNR will also do the needed research into air rifles before they permit them. I would hope DNR went to a range with shotguns to shoot and pattern them with all types of chokes, shot size, powder load, etc... as well as calling and asking other states DNRs. before Indiana first turkey hunt. But thank you for wanting to know all about the air rifles effectiveness, I am sure once you find the information you will be impressed with them. I wonder if the UK would have some of the information you are looking for. I I'm not going to look for the data as I didn't broach the subject and have no dog in the fight. Having said that...since this is something you are pushing, I would have thought you would have done the research necessary to help support your position. Regardless, I'm finished with the subject, but good luck to you.
|
|
|
Post by airgun on May 25, 2016 15:55:10 GMT -5
jjas, I will do before the public input meetings. When I got the muzzleloader pistol passed I did not have to show the any stats, I just provided a commercially produced pistol to DNR they shot it and took ballistics information from it and it passed within the first year. I do not expect the air rifle to be that fast. But who knows. But thanks for the suggestion. I am taking notes from these conversations to be prepared for the public comment meetings. Thanks
Update: I have sent several emails out to air rifles manufacturers asking for help with information.
|
|
|
Post by airgun on May 26, 2016 9:57:26 GMT -5
I just changed my picture. If, you can see the picture one was shot at ten yards all five shots were in the 1/2" circle (they were actually under 3/8" edge to edge). The other was five shots at thirty yards all of them in the 1" circle (actually they were edge to edge .640"). A dime covered all of them so shot placement between 10 - 30 yards should not be a concern. Most turkeys are harvested in these ranges with shot guns and bows.
If I could post the pictures I would show the both pictures, one as shot, and the other with a dime covering them. All shots were taken while sitting in chair with a Primos trigger tripod just as I would use in hunting.
|
|
|
Post by cedarthicket on May 26, 2016 15:57:04 GMT -5
With the advancement in airguns over the last few years is it time to have airguns to hunt turkeys in Indiana? With a growing list of states permitting hunters to hunt with airguns for deer and turkeys can we be included in that list? Airgun, several times in this thread you mention several states already allow airguns to be used to take turkeys. Maybe I overlooked it, but which states allow airguns to take turkeys? Also, of those states that allow airguns which ones (if any) allow center-fire and/or rim-fire rifles? Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by bullseye69 on May 26, 2016 16:26:06 GMT -5
With the advancement in airguns over the last few years is it time to have airguns to hunt turkeys in Indiana? With a growing list of states permitting hunters to hunt with airguns for deer and turkeys can we be included in that list? Airgun, several times in this thread you mention several states already allow airguns to be used to take turkeys. Maybe I overlooked it, but which states allow airguns to take turkeys? Also, of those states that allow airguns which ones (if any) allow center-fire and/or rim-fire rifles? Thanks. Montana allows rifles to take turkeys. fwp.mt.gov/hunting/regulations/
|
|
|
Post by airgun on May 26, 2016 16:34:19 GMT -5
Cedarthicket, I know for sure California, I have not done all of my home work to confirm the others. I will have the information before the public meetings. Someone one said fifteen states. After talking with DNR they have not thought about it before, nor has anybody requested it before. Now that has changed its on the agenda this year and will be on the next year and on the agenda until it's approved.
|
|
|
Post by bullseye69 on May 26, 2016 17:57:47 GMT -5
Isn't "challenging" part of hunting? Lets face it if it was easy would it be as popular to do? Don't some hunters go back to primitive hunting tools to make it more of a challenge? So why would a air rifle be less of a challenge?
What a bad shot with a shotgun is ok but a bad shot with a pellet gun isn't?
IMO ,Just saying.
|
|
|
Post by airgun on May 26, 2016 20:40:00 GMT -5
Bulleyes69, it really not a question if the air rifles are capable of cleanly harvesting a wild turkey. Its more about non air rifle shooter understanding what these guns can do. There are a few people who like to call them "BB" guns as a insult only because they do not understand them or are afraid of them and or just like causing hardships. These adult air rifles are very powerful with unbelievable accuracy. I am looking forward to being able to hunt with them very soon.
|
|
|
Post by bullseye69 on May 26, 2016 21:54:40 GMT -5
Bulleyes69, it really not a question if the air rifles are capable of cleanly harvesting a wild turkey. Its more about non air rifle shooter understanding what these guns can do. There are a few people who like to call them "BB" guns as a insult only because they do not understand them or are afraid of them and or just like causing hardships. These adult air rifles are very powerful with unbelievable accuracy. I am looking forward to being able to hunt with them very soon. Oh I know, my buddy has a PCP, cant remember which one, but we shoot coons with it, DRT.
|
|