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Post by mattfinney on Jun 2, 2011 22:06:32 GMT -5
AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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Post by lymanl3 on Jun 2, 2011 22:37:37 GMT -5
Last thing I have to say. I have no interest in kicking gun hunters out of anything. I myself, am indeed a gun hunter, I'm also a bow hunter, and a deer hunter. The only thing I'm interested in is quality management of our deer resource. We just look at things differently, and that't OK. Where as you would call it "kick(ing) gun hunters out of some WildLife Management Areas", I would call it "making the deer hunters in that particular WMA chase whitetails with archery equipment". All deer hunters are allowed to hunt archery season. I mean come on....Kentucky has over 150,000 acres of archery only public, and Missouri has over 100,000 acres....I would like to see 20,000 acres in Indiana, it seems fair to me. Woody, I wish there was a surplus of hunting land out there, and we could all hunt totally unregulated and still do no harm to the resource, but the reality is, we are terribly crowded with hunters these days, many hunters even pay farmers upwards of $25/acre per year just to have a quality place to hunt. Indiana's deer herd is shared by all of us, and the characteristics of the deer herd can only be manipulated through regulation. Again, here is where you and I subscribe to different schools of thought. Where as I am in favor of restricting the pressure on bucks, and adding pressure on does through regulation, you often favor increased opportunity for both sexes, which in the real world, equates to increased opportunity at bucks, as the overwhelming majority of deer hunters are out there to kill a buck. What this gives us, is a very high harvest of young bucks, as they are by far the most vulnerable deer in the woods during November, and less does. This gives us a very heavy doe/buck ratio, and a very young age structure. This very unnatural herd structure equates to lower quality deer hunting. Bingo...Ive been preaching, but the small suggestion of QDMA, or managing the herd which produces quality bucks tends to be spinned into anti-gun hunting. Folks dont want to give up firearm days during the rut, even if the redistibution of days is for a better management approach such as an antlerless only season. Good luck here ;D |
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Post by 76chevy on Jun 3, 2011 8:01:30 GMT -5
Matt, I have hunted a lot of the same places you have, shined the same fields most likely, maybe even seen some of the same deer It seems to me that deer hunting in your area is awfully good. we (brothers and I) can get an opportunity on at least one (often a few) mature, 140-150+ bucks every year in that area. It comes with hard work and scouting year round. A lot of guys hunt with rut methods the whole season and therefore never see mature bucks outside of the rut. You have to know where they bed and where they stage during daylight. It is not easy to figure out and requires time and effort. Hunters swear there are no mature bucks in the area but they (like >90% of public land hunters) are just hunting in the wrong spots and keep hunting them day after day expecting different results. The mature deer are there just my $0.02 Last thing I have to say. I have no interest in kicking gun hunters out of anything. I myself, am indeed a gun hunter, I'm also a bow hunter, and a deer hunter. The only thing I'm interested in is quality management of our deer resource. We just look at things differently, and that't OK. Where as you would call it "kick(ing) gun hunters out of some WildLife Management Areas", I would call it "making the deer hunters in that particular WMA chase whitetails with archery equipment". All deer hunters are allowed to hunt archery season. I mean come on....Kentucky has over 150,000 acres of archery only public, and Missouri has over 100,000 acres....I would like to see 20,000 acres in Indiana, it seems fair to me. Woody, I wish there was a surplus of hunting land out there, and we could all hunt totally unregulated and still do no harm to the resource, but the reality is, we are terribly crowded with hunters these days, many hunters even pay farmers upwards of $25/acre per year just to have a quality place to hunt. Indiana's deer herd is shared by all of us, and the characteristics of the deer herd can only be manipulated through regulation. Again, here is where you and I subscribe to different schools of thought. Where as I am in favor of restricting the pressure on bucks, and adding pressure on does through regulation, you often favor increased opportunity for both sexes, which in the real world, equates to increased opportunity at bucks, as the overwhelming majority of deer hunters are out there to kill a buck. What this gives us, is a very high harvest of young bucks, as they are by far the most vulnerable deer in the woods during November, and less does. This gives us a very heavy doe/buck ratio, and a very young age structure. This very unnatural herd structure equates to lower quality deer hunting. |
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Post by speckle on Jun 3, 2011 8:02:05 GMT -5
Whats the difference between talking about Illinois gun seasons and Ohio having crossbows?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 9:52:23 GMT -5
A lot of post here seem to be based on misinformation. First off, a lot of times, when guy wants to mention quality deer management(QDM) they instead type out quality deer management association(QDMA). that is an error. Second, Illinois has great deer hunting, but the differences to Indiana is great, for starters, Illinois has far greater number of deer hunters...nearly 3 times as many. Illinois is a two buck state......so the statement that Illinois puts less pressure on bucks is false. Gun seasons or shorter, yes...but the harvest numbers are higher. Doesn't matter what they kill them with, once one is dead, it's dead. It's often stated that Illinois does not hunt the rut....again, not true. I always see plenty of bucks in a breeding frenzy during the first gun season. The difference in management scheme may be the big difference that Matt say is from other sources....which it is not. Illinois manages for 75 deer per sq. mile which is a lot higher than what is socially acceptable in most states. For example, in Ky. they manage for 25 deer per sq. mi. The Archery only WMA's that Matt talks about in Ky. have far less deer than 25 per sq. mi. so that may give you an idea about the real quality there. I know from experience that you will see far more deer per sit in Illinois than you will in the best public areas in Ky., bowonly or not. There are better hunting WMAs in Ky. than the bow only ones....so it is not always true that those are the best places to hunt, as far as seeing good bucks, whci seems to be Matts only interest. Crossbow is not relevant to management, as it's just another tool. It won't make you more successful than regular archer gear or any less wize. It simply gives the hunter another choice. If Indiana went to a deer season exactly like Illionois, and killed the same number of deer that they kill now, and in the same ratios, then you'll have to explain how that would improve quality of anyones hunt?  ? |
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Post by js2397 on Jun 3, 2011 11:27:29 GMT -5
I could be wrong but here is my take on QDM:
QDM is a voluntary philosophy of deer management that focuses on an intensive doe harvest and reduced pressure on young bucks by targeting the most mature bucks on a property. This is accomplished through education and getting land owners to manage their own properties a certain way. It has nothing to do with the timing of the deer seasons or the particular choice of hunting tool or method used during the season. Furthermore the goal of QDM is not large antlers but a more balanced sex and age ratio and a smaller overall deer herd in check with the available resources of the land. If your only focus is to create bigger antlers it is something other than QDM you are using for your deer management.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 3, 2011 11:33:18 GMT -5
I could be wrong but here is my take on QDM: QDM is a voluntary philosophy of deer management that focuses on an intensive doe harvest and reduced pressure on young bucks by targeting the most mature bucks on a property. This is accomplished through education and getting land owners to manage their own properties a certain way. It has nothing to do with the timing of the deer seasons or the particular choice of hunting tool or method used during the season. Furthermore the goal of QDM is not large antlers but a more balanced sex and age ratio and a smaller overall deer herd in check with the available resources of the land. If your only focus is to create bigger antlers it is something other than QDM you are using for your deer management. BINGO!!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 13:37:47 GMT -5
Correct, and note that what Matt wants is "trophy deer management" not QDM. That's the reason that we have the OBR as well. Believe it or not, the objective of the new deer proposals are based on QDM as well, not TDM. But a by-product of a balanced herd, and one that is not over or close to being over the capacity of the land results in the same quality of bucks that are of the results of TDM
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Post by mattfinney on Jun 3, 2011 14:21:38 GMT -5
Nope, Matt wants quality deer management....it's timex that wants "trophy deer management"....I promise.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2011 18:03:21 GMT -5
You concerns center around the rut and timing of gun seasons and how many bucks you can kill.....all concerns of just one of the sexes. QDM preaches a substansial doe harvest, same as featured in the Proprosals II that you don't support, more evidence yet that my statement is 100% correct. The problem is you don't understand the difference between the two forms of management and only applaud the wishes of leadership of the groups you support. Further evidence, you just posted that you like antler restrictions too, so it's pretty plain who speaks the truth.
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Post by mattfinney on Jun 3, 2011 20:56:13 GMT -5
The problem is you don't understand the difference between the two forms of management and only applaud the wishes of leadership of the groups you support. Timex, I'm in favor of QDM, I'm in favor of trophy deer management...call it what ever you like. Illinois thinks they're the same thing. "A notable aspect of JEPC’s hunting opportunities is its participation in the Department of Natural Resources Quality Deer Management Program . At JEPC and other IDNR sites designated as a Quality Deer Management Area, only antlerless deer or deer with a minimum of four points on one side may be taken during the archery and firearm deer seasons. The program protects 1- and 2-year-old bucks to provide future opportunities for harvesting trophy-size deer, while managing local herds through the taking of does and other antlerless deer." huntingindiana.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=deerhunting&action=display&thread=37894 |
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Post by Decatur on Jun 3, 2011 21:15:03 GMT -5
Why don't Matt Finney, and Timex take their arguments to a PRIVATE message!
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Post by tenring on Jun 3, 2011 21:39:42 GMT -5
Matt still has not responded to his definition of "quality" management, I believe that a lot of the members here would appreciate that.
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Post by larryhagmansliver on Jun 3, 2011 21:58:45 GMT -5
Seems a bit warm in here. I do enjoy reading everyone's input though.. All I'm gonna say is I still have space on my wall for more antlers, but I don't blame anyone but my self if I don't get them.
Long Live The Liver!
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Post by jgrimm on Jun 3, 2011 23:47:29 GMT -5
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 4, 2011 9:17:28 GMT -5
My sincere apologies..For letting this thread get so far off topic. I even participated in that off topic stuff myself, so I do apologize. The topic is the Illinois tags going on sale. IF you have a post about that by all means post it. Anything else comparing Illinois it Indiana , QDM, bow only WMAS, etc, etc, etc will be deleted from here on out. We have NO problem discussing these subjects but let us do it in the proper thread, not one that is about Illinois archery tags on sale. To facilitate that I have posted two polls threads where you all can discuss that to your heart’s content. If you like you can copy and paste your pertinent posts to those threads, but keep further discussion, that does not relate to Illinois archery tags , out of this thread. Bow only WMAs thread.. huntingindiana.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=deerhunting&thread=37909Antler restrictions thread… huntingindiana.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=deerhunting&action=display&thread=37908Thanks, WW
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Post by steiny on Jun 4, 2011 12:06:47 GMT -5
Matt is right.
IL has done great things with their deer resource.
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Post by tenring on Jun 4, 2011 12:11:27 GMT -5
A very good friend of mine that now lives in Illinois tells me that an Illinois resident has to apply for a deer tag on a county by county basis. Has this changed?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2011 14:18:52 GMT -5
No it hasn't changed, no resident is denied a tag. They draw before the NR tag drawing. The DNR balances the books on the NR tags sold, and residents pay very little for tags. NR landowners also receive preference in the 2nd. draw.
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Post by tenring on Jun 4, 2011 14:22:23 GMT -5
So it's like a lot of the states out West, you may or may not get to hunt where you want to, but you will get to hunt.
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