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Post by dbd870 on Aug 31, 2012 12:37:45 GMT -5
Agreed, if it is important to you then go for it and have it scored, if not it's easy to ignore. Let's face it, no matter how this all turns out what impact does it have on 99.99% of the hunting world?
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Post by billybobteeth on Aug 31, 2012 18:59:52 GMT -5
But the fact remains that the President order the rack to not be panel scored and forbade anyone to re-score the deer.. So in fact they are not fallowing their own rules and there by are setting themselves up to wear egg on their face and the man in charge just told everyone basically they had to take their ball home and could not play by the established rules ... So yep its about the rules and one man don't make them ... He is ruling by intimidation and fear and making decisions and ruling outside the letter of the clubs rules. FYI- This is likely not over by a long shot and I would guess that the President would of been hard pressed to be re-elected there next election and now they have a "new president" and suddenly the buck is back up for panel scoreing. Go figure.. Hunting Public outcry and the clubs reputation being thrashed . And the King buck will be panel scored after all -- www.deeranddeerhunting.com/deer-and-deer-hunting-magazine/big-bucks-boone-and-crockett-will-score-king-buck-as-potential-new-world-record-whitetail
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Post by fullrut on Aug 31, 2012 21:11:32 GMT -5
"The interesting fact related to this story is that although the B&C Club points a finger at Duncan Dobie and Deer and Deer Hunting for all the misinformation expelled from their article, they in fact never give names of the so-called four (not including Reneau) who repute the King buck as a typical. Whereas, Duncan (in his D&DH article) gives many names of those respected scorers who do – including one very respected scorer who was on the panel that scored Milo Hanson’s 1993 World Record. He too, called the King buck a typical. As it stands, it looks as if King’s Wisconsin monarch will never see a panel scoring. The most famous G-3 in whitetail scoring history also remains the most controversial. While the Boone & Crockett Club stands by its much anticipated and predictable response, it’s of my own conclusion (Mike Willand) that when a judgment call is this close, like in baseball, tie should go to the runner. As in, give it to the animal that grew it." www.bowhunting.com/publisher/Hunting-News/2011/5/12/BandC-Issues-Response-to-the-Johnny-King-Buck-Tale--Its-NOT-TypicalYou missed some facts mattfinney... Boone & Crockett Club quote..... In light of a recent article in Deer and Deer Hunting by Duncan Dobie about Johnny King's typical whitetail deer, the Boone and Crockett Club's Records Committee would like to clarify our position. I would first like to note that it is important to understand that neither Jack Reneau, Director of Big Game Records, nor any member of the committee has a vested interest in the specific score of this or any other trophy, other than to see that it is accurately scored in accordance with the Club's guidelines. The declaration of any new World's Record is a welcomed celebration for the Club, game managers, and dedicated sportsmen.
We are concerned with the misinformation being presented in the article. After speaking with Jack Reneau, I found that he was misinterpreted regarding a possible rule change. What has been printed does not reflect what he was trying to convey. He said with the high and increasing volume of whitetail deer entries, we are seeing abnormalities that are not addressed in the scoring manual. These can present challenges to the Official Measurers. The right G3 on the King buck presents just such an abnormality. This situation came to light under the term of the Club's previous Records Chairman and was written up in the winter issue of “Fair Chase Magazine” in 2000. Reneau was merely pointing out that it is an issue that had not been directly addressed in the Official Measuring manual, but has been the subject of much discussion.
The King buck, while an exceptional specimen, was determined to have an abnormal right G3. This was confirmed, independently, by four highly experienced Boone and Crockett Club Official Measurers. Each of the scorers involved in this examination were senior measurers with both Pope and Young Club and Boone and Crockett Club. They have served on numerous Judges Panels for both organizations. After the four measurers made their determination, the trophy purchaser/promoter questioned the decision. Jack Reneau reviewed the file with other Big Game Records staff and the Records Committee members who also all concurred with the ruling......... Seems too happen to this cat alot!
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Post by dadfsr on Aug 31, 2012 21:49:43 GMT -5
My only concern out all this horn worshiping....was the meat handled correctly and how did it taste!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 7:14:21 GMT -5
My only concern out all this horn worshiping....was the meat handled correctly and how did it taste!!! Seems your post is way off topic, but you can assume the meat was utilized as Wis. does have a vague wanton waste law, and the fact that Johnny King was a meat hunter, not unlike yourself obviously. I'd go out on a limb and say that a very high precentage of the deer hunters in the world would have shot this buck and are very interested in the next world record, even if this one isn't it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 20:58:54 GMT -5
Relate it to the Miss American contest. Ever see a winner have one ear the size of a grapefruit and the other typical size.
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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 2, 2012 21:40:35 GMT -5
Here is a good Question. Lets say you have Two Bucks. They both Gross Score 160 inches. However one Buck has 10 points of Deductions, and the other Buck only has 3 points of Deductions. So one Buck ends of Net Scoring 150, and the other Buck scores 157. Keep in mind they both have 160 inches of Antler before the Deductions. Which Buck is actually Larger ? keep in mind they both had the same Gross ScoreThis is why I don't like the scoring System lol. Sorry...having "two bucks" would be breaking the law. This is an OBR state..
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 5:33:55 GMT -5
Here is a good Question. Lets say you have Two Bucks. They both Gross Score 160 inches. However one Buck has 10 points of Deductions, and the other Buck only has 3 points of Deductions. So one Buck ends of Net Scoring 150, and the other Buck scores 157. Keep in mind they both have 160 inches of Antler before the Deductions. Which Buck is actually Larger ? keep in mind they both had the same Gross ScoreThis is why I don't like the scoring System lol. First off, there is no such thing as gross score. It is listed for informational purposes ONLY. Generally, you see it for deer that don't qualify or don't get officially scored. It won't get your deer in the record book. Second, the buck that scored the highest is biggest according to these rules. Which by the way are considered THE RULES to play by. Even deer behind high fences are often shown as such and such B & C, even though they can't be scored by this system. Third, the B & C system rewards for symetry typical antlers, and adds non-typical growth to the NT cat. Period. If you want to count every inch of bone, there are systems available that do that, but known are accepted as the standard, with the exception of Safari Club rules some what. Fourth, I suspect the reason you DON"T like this system is the same reason those that make the book with a qualifying deer DO like it. It takes an exceptional deer to make the book, and most peole never kill one.
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Post by daneowner on Sept 3, 2012 11:55:00 GMT -5
Timex, Think you may be mistaken when you stated, " no such thing as a gross score" I believe Boone & crockett does use the term "gross" and "net" in their publications.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 12:01:58 GMT -5
Here is a good Question.
Tom Lets say you kill a Buck that scores 160 before deductions.
I also kill a Buck that scores 160 before Deductions.
So, both of our Bucks have 160 inches of Antler.
Your Buck has 10 points of deductions, and Net Scores 150 inches.
My Buck only has 3 points of Deductions, and Net Scores 157 inches.
Who has the larger Buck ?
Keep in mind both of our Bucks have 160 inches of Antler before the Deductions.
Which Buck is actually Larger ? keep in mind they both had the same Gross Score.
Also, I wonder how many Bucks are killed in America every year that Gross Score over 160 Typical, and 180 Non Typical ? I would say thousands. But after the pointless deductions they often score much Less.
Lets say two guys both kill Bucks that Gross Score 165 Typical. One Buck has 7 points of deductions and net scores 158 typical, the other Buck has 3 points deductions, and net scores 162 Typical.
So even though Both of these Bucks have 165 inches of Antler, one makes the B&C Record Book, and the other does not. I find that kind of ridiculous.
So, there are Bucks that do NOT make the books, that have just as much Antler as Bucks that do make the record Books.
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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 3, 2012 12:21:48 GMT -5
KL...
What you think is a "good question" some others think as quite silly.
The "clubs" have their rules and IF you want to particpate in that club's scoring you play by those rules..
You can say whatever you want on your deer..
Gross,
Net,
Guess,
Whatever,
But to enter it in a book you go by their rules. period
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 12:32:25 GMT -5
Timex, Think you may be mistaken when you stated, " no such thing as a gross score" I believe Boone & crockett does use the term "gross" and "net" in their publications. As stated, FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. Once it's scored, it's then listed as a net score where ever it ranks. Example is a buck that grossed 175 but nets 169 7/8" makes the honorable mention ranks for one year then disappears, never making the all-time book.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 12:37:33 GMT -5
Bill, you can stretch it anyway you want, but if it doesn't score high enough, it's not a book deer. And that is not scored in your kitchen on the dining room table, it's scored by an official B & C scorer who knows the rules and how to read a tape measure. To say a lessor scoring buck is a big as a Booner is not doing justice to the few deer that do make it. If your deers don't measure up, seek out one the other scoring systems to see if they do better.
That's why 3" is a big deal. Actually 1/8 of an inch can be a big deal.
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Post by lugnutz on Sept 3, 2012 20:57:09 GMT -5
If a deer has 200 inches he should be scored 200 inches. Deductions? Seems like childs play to me.
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Post by lugnutz on Sept 3, 2012 21:18:09 GMT -5
.
Isn't the big deal about the deers LEFT G3? Woulda figured those "four highly experienced measurers" would know their right from their left?
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Post by sakorifle on Sept 4, 2012 4:16:50 GMT -5
It is exactly the same over here in Europe for roe bucks, points can be added or taken off for good looks etc its all in the eye of the man marking the trophy, it is that ridiculous that i have sheered away from the nonsense all my life and hunt because i just love to hunt Bucks or doe's it does not matter one jot to me. six pointer or spikes i do not care its all fun to me. You never ever see Billy disappointed when i walk up to the animal. I have seen that look so many times on clients faces.
Ought to leave one's competitiveness somewhere else, that and guns in a hunting environment are a recipe for eventual disaster it is in my view the greatest cause of shots been taken when in actual fact it was not a safe shot in the first place. it is the oh big one i must have it must have it factor. I preach this at work and sorry but that is my view. regards stay safe Billy
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 5:09:22 GMT -5
I think it is sad that a Buck that net scores 159 inches Typical does NOT make the B&C Book, but a Buck that net scores 160 does lol even though they both had the same gross score. What if one guy takes a Buck that gross scores 165 Typical, and another guy also takes a Buck that gross scores 165 Typical. One of the Bucks has 6 points of deductions, it Net scores 159 Typical and does not make the Book. The other guys Buck has 4 points of deductions and scores 161 inches Typical, so his Buck does make the Book. Isn't this crazy ? Both of these Bucks have 165 inches of Antler, however only one of the Bucks made the Book. Sadly this kind of thing happens all the time. It's the same way with the Hoosier Record Book, you can have two Bucks that both Gross score 145 inches, one Buck has 10 points deducted and net scores 135 and does not make the book. The other Buck only has 3 points of deductions, and net scores 142 inches and does make the book. So, there are thousands of Bucks killed across America every year, that don't make the books that are just as big as the Bucks that do make the Books. Bill, you can stretch it anyway you want, but if it doesn't score high enough, it's not a book deer. And that is not scored in your kitchen on the dining room table, it's scored by an official B & C scorer who knows the rules and how to read a tape measure. To say a lessor scoring buck is a big as a Booner is not doing justice to the few deer that do make it. If your deers don't measure up, seek out one the other scoring systems to see if they do better. That's why 3" is a big deal. Actually 1/8 of an inch can be a big deal.
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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 4, 2012 5:22:03 GMT -5
KL,
How many times are you going to post the same thing over and over and over again?
It's getting real old...
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Post by dadfsr on Sept 4, 2012 5:29:29 GMT -5
It is exactly the same over here in Europe for roe bucks, points can be added or taken off for good looks etc its all in the eye of the man marking the trophy, it is that ridiculous that i have sheered away from the nonsense all my life and hunt because i just love to hunt Bucks or doe's it does not matter one jot to me. six pointer or spikes i do not care its all fun to me. You never ever see Billy disappointed when i walk up to the animal. I have seen that look so many times on clients faces. Ought to leave one's competitiveness somewhere else, that and guns in a hunting environment are a recipe for eventual disaster it is in my view the greatest cause of shots been taken when in actual fact it was not a safe shot in the first place. it is the oh big one i must have it must have it factor. I preach this at work and sorry but that is my view. regards stay safe Billy You would be more than welcome to hunt my little piece of property anytime Billy! Sure a nice set of antlers may give one some bragging rights BUT my main concern is a clean kill and the handling of the meat after the kill.
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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 4, 2012 5:46:33 GMT -5
It is exactly the same over here in Europe for roe bucks, points can be added or taken off for good looks etc its all in the eye of the man marking the trophy, it is that ridiculous that i have sheered away from the nonsense all my life and hunt because i just love to hunt Bucks or doe's it does not matter one jot to me. six pointer or spikes i do not care its all fun to me. You never ever see Billy disappointed when i walk up to the animal. I have seen that look so many times on clients faces. Ought to leave one's competitiveness somewhere else, that and guns in a hunting environment are a recipe for eventual disaster it is in my view the greatest cause of shots been taken when in actual fact it was not a safe shot in the first place. it is the oh big one i must have it must have it factor. I preach this at work and sorry but that is my view. regards stay safe Billy EXCELLENT!!
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