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Post by tickman1961 on May 19, 2011 10:45:00 GMT -5
Typical behavior from B &C trying to save the "integrity" of their organization, when B & C has no integrity with me. B&C and P&Y do more to alienate hunters against one another than unite them.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2011 18:27:30 GMT -5
Here is the latest statement from B&C records committee:
The Johnny King Buck:
Setting the Record Straight --
In light of a recent article in Deer and Deer Hunting by Duncan Dobie about Johnny King's typical whitetail deer, the Boone and Crockett Club's Records Committee would like to clarify our position. I would first like to note that it is important to understand that neither Jack Reneau, Director of Big Game Records, nor any member of the committee has a vested interest in the specific score of this or any other trophy, other than to see that it is accurately scored in accordance with the Club's guidelines. The declaration of any new World's Record is a welcomed celebration for the Club, game managers, and dedicated sportsmen.
We are concerned with the misinformation being presented in the article. After speaking with Jack Reneau, I found that he was misinterpreted regarding a possible rule change. What has been printed does not reflect what he was trying to convey. He said with the high and increasing volume of whitetail deer entries, we are seeing abnormalities that are not addressed in the scoring manual. These can present challenges to the Official Measurers. The right G3 on the King buck presents just such an abnormality. This situation came to light under the term of the Club's previous Records Chairman and was written up in the winter issue of Fair Chase Magazine in 2000. Reneau was merely pointing out that it is an issue that had not been directly addressed in the Official Measuring manual, but has been the subject of much discussion.
The King buck, while an exceptional specimen, was determined to have an abnormal right G3. This was confirmed, independently, by four highly experienced Boone and Crockett Club Official Measurers. Each of the scorers involved in this examination were senior measurers with both Pope and Young Club and Boone and Crockett Club. They have served on numerous Judges Panels for both organizations. After the four measurers made their determination, the trophy purchaser/promoter questioned the decision. Jack Reneau reviewed the file with other Big Game Records staff and the Records Committee members who also all concurred with the ruling.
Due to a liberalization of the entry requirements a few years ago, this damaged buck is eligible for entry even though the main beam had been shot off. The original Official Measurer's judgment that the buck needed review by Boone and Crockett Club to see if it could be officially scored and entered with the broken main beam was correct.
The purchaser/promoter of the rack has repeatedly requested that a panel re-score the deer. The criteria for panel scoring are 1) to confirm a new top-ten trophy entry or 2) to confirm a new World's Record entry. Neither being the case, no panel will be convened. The original entry score of 180 points is accurate.
In conclusion, Boone and Crockett Club is well aware of what can be at stake when antler buyers, agents, promoters, and endorsement seekers weigh in on scoring, and we will remain vigilant to maintain the integrity of Big Game Records, with fairness to all trophies and all trophy owners. In doing so, the Club will not let any individual or group modify the rules to favor a specific trophy above others. The King buck was withdrawn by the hunter from our records program. It is in no way a pending World's Record, nor subject to revision. It can be re-entered at anytime by the owner with a typical score of 180 points.
Richard T. Hale Deputy Vice President Records of North American Big Game Committee
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Post by mbogo on May 19, 2011 20:16:18 GMT -5
It's pretty comical that B&C would say this when this particular deer is a possible World Record and certainly in the top ten but for a single judgement call. That kind of undermines their whole statement. The entire press release seems unprofessional and B&C.
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Post by greghopper on May 19, 2011 20:24:20 GMT -5
It's pretty comical that B&C would say this when this particular deer is a possible World Record and certainly in the top ten but for a single judgement call. That kind of undermines their whole statement. The entire press release seems unprofessional and B&C. Not True..... ...four highly experienced Boone and Crockett Club Official Measurers made the decision!!!! (see quote below) " The King buck, while an exceptional specimen, was determined to have an abnormal right G3. This was confirmed, independently, by four highly experienced Boone and Crockett Club Official Measurers. Each of the scorers involved in this examination were senior measurers with both Pope and Young Club and Boone and Crockett Club. They have served on numerous Judges Panels for both organizations. After the four measurers made their determination, the trophy purchaser/promoter questioned the decision."
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Post by mbogo on May 20, 2011 13:23:48 GMT -5
The single judgement call I was referring to was the one tine that was considered nontypical, not the number of scorers present, which seems to be in dispute based on the conflicting reports. It defies credibility when B&C claims there was no reason to panel score the buck when it a) would be scored in the top ten and b) possibly could be a world record depending on the intepretation of that one tine. That is the very purpose for panel scoring. This buck should have been panel scored and a final score determined at that point instead of being given a lower score based on the initial review. At best the situation was handled poorly by B&C, at worst it demonstrates the inconsistency of B&C judgement calls.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 14:03:46 GMT -5
Actually, the situation was handled badly by the hunter, who first had it scored but not officially, then took the rack to the archery scorers. Had it been officially scored by the first guy, then it could have been panel scored. Which is not possible after the score shopping that happened later. Of course, the panel would have overturned the first scorer, which is the way that panel scoring is supposed to work. B & C has followed the proper protocal and was consistant.
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Post by mbogo on May 20, 2011 18:21:48 GMT -5
If the story B&C is floating is 100% accurate there is still absolutely no reason this deer should be denied a panel scoring. The hunter can "shop the score" ( I'd hardly call what he did shopping the score) all he wants, there's only one official score and absolutely no reason for B&C to get butthurt and deny the deer the panel scoring it deserves. The Zaft buck was panel scored and had a similar issue. P&Y did the right thing and gave the deer the benefit of the doubt until it was panel scored as it should have. B&C did not in this case and instead attacked the hunter.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 5:14:26 GMT -5
B & C did not attack the hunter or anyone else. They simply stated their rules and explained why it was not panel scored. The errors made in this event were not made by B & C, nor was the rack scored incorrectly. When several very experienced scorers reach the same conclusion, there is little doubt that Jack made the wrong assesssment in judgement. The rules of a "common base" are fairly easy to understand, but scoring hundreds of antlers correct increases the likelyhood that this was scored accurately, as is the aim of B & C.
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Post by duff on May 21, 2011 6:39:10 GMT -5
What does B&C gain from covering anything up? Seems unlikely they would conspire to deny a new record. I do admit I know nothing about B&C or this buck as I have only skimmed this thread so take my comment with less than a grain of salt.
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Post by greghopper on Jun 10, 2011 7:30:27 GMT -5
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 10, 2011 20:12:51 GMT -5
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Post by greghopper on Jun 10, 2011 20:31:51 GMT -5
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Post by 76chevy on Jun 11, 2011 6:45:26 GMT -5
clearly from the pictures, it is a shared base the lack of being considered a world record takes nothing away from this magnificent animal however!!! pics and quote from B&C site..... "Upon closer observation, however, it is clear an abnormal point exists between the G2 and G3 points on the right antler. The baseline of the normal points is delineated in black and the baseline of the abnormal point in red"
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Post by greghopper on Aug 30, 2012 21:07:28 GMT -5
UPDATE....."Boone and Crockett Will Score King Buck as Potential New World Record Whitetail" t.co/ckCi9UdC
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Post by jabba on Aug 31, 2012 6:33:07 GMT -5
Oh geeze.
I know a lot of you guys worship bone... That's cool. Not me though. If I killed a giant like that... it'd be all about the $$$ for me.
Some of my most memorable hunts have ended in me NOT getting my deer. Or killing a doe. Sometimes a little buck.
I still have the spikes off my FIRST buck. I wear one as a necklace during deer season. I killed that deer at 4'.
Good memory.
Jabba
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 31, 2012 8:09:37 GMT -5
Personal opinion... The "record books" whole go away. They had worthy goals at the start but have just become ego boosters and money producers any more...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 8:30:23 GMT -5
Oh geeze. If I killed a giant like that... it'd be all about the $$$ for me. Jabba Although I think B & C has erred in the way the handled this affair, I generally agree with the scoring system and how it works. Seems most other do as well, as it's still the standard all others measue up to. Being that this "might" end up being a WR ( B & C) it will be worth a lot more money than if it wasn't. So, I'm sure that's why it hasn't gone away. In the end, the deer that grew the bone and carried will get remembered by more people than if it had just went away, like the Club originally hoped for. B & C still has some problems to fix before this one is "in the books"
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 31, 2012 9:39:40 GMT -5
Oh geeze. If I killed a giant like that... it'd be all about the $$$ for me. Jabba Although I think B & C has erred in the way the handled this affair, I generally agree with the scoring system and how it works. Seems most other do as well, as it's still the standard all others measue up to. Being that this "might" end up being a WR ( B & C) it will be worth a lot more money than if it wasn't. So, I'm sure that's why it hasn't gone away. In the end, the deer that grew the bone and carried will get remembered by more people than if it had just went away, like the Club originally hoped for. B & C still has some problems to fix before this one is "in the books" Like the "Zaft Buck".. www.northamericanwhitetail.com/2010/09/22/trophybucks_naw_aa503zaftupdate/
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Post by bowhunterjohn on Aug 31, 2012 11:25:15 GMT -5
all I will say is that both sides the G2's and G3's come out similar, so if the left side is ruled typical, then the right side should also
Think it isn't fair but that is why I will never enter a rack
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Post by swilk on Aug 31, 2012 12:32:05 GMT -5
The cool thing about b&c and p&y is they are entirely voluntary.
Their club. Their rules. Those who like it can play by their rules...those that don't like it don't ever have to worry about it.
Heck of a buck no matter what happens.
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