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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2010 13:51:32 GMT -5
Just want to get a fix on what a majority of the resident hunts think about NR hunters? Looking at the numbers, it looks as though there is maybe 9,000 to 10,000 of them. They pay $150 for a permit that costs you $24. Do the math that equates to $1,350,000 on the low end up to $1,500,000 on the high end. It would take 62,500 resident hunters to equal the same number of dollars generated by 10,000 NR hunters.
The question is, do you feel this statement is justified and do you agree with the NR hunters not having a voice in the proposals being made?
Quote: ( you'll have to use a bit of creative English to get through this , but I sure you can get the point )
"Remeber this you have no dog in this fight since we seem to not have any dong in KY ,IL, or OH or any other state that we from Indiana may hunt in or have a lease in or own a spit of land in . If ya do not live here or us there step off is my motto . "
BTW-- in Ky. anyone that buys a license can have input on any matter, same as a resident.
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Post by racktracker on Jul 31, 2010 14:01:13 GMT -5
If you pay to play you should have a voice in any game decision.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 31, 2010 15:19:24 GMT -5
We are all hunters..
My feelings on NRs (as I are one too).
Tag fees should be reciprocal. Buck and /or doe.
Game management input should be from whatever source the DNR gets it from. I want MY DNR to make the most educated decision that they can. I don't care where they get that information from.
I can guarantee you that these different state biologists talk to each other frequently. Why should not other states hunters be included in the process?
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Post by danf on Jul 31, 2010 16:39:06 GMT -5
Remember that some of the NR's (probably a small percentage, but they still exist) are like myself- former residents of the state. While I have yet to buy a tag in Indiana as a non-res, I intend to do so at some point in the future. Hopefully the seasons won't be too screwed up by then.
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Post by deerman1 on Jul 31, 2010 17:44:56 GMT -5
I feel that in the other states that I hunt I only pay for the chance at whatever that animal is .The fact I hunt there but live in another state does not give me any right to tell their game dept. or the people who actually have the game on their land and pay the sales ,property ,payroll ,and every other state tax there that help pay for everything we enjoy there that is included on the hunt there What to do or how to set the season there . Just because a hunter hunts someplace out of state does not give them any right to input especially since they did not vote in the state Government there. I mean the paying of a meisily 200 or 300 bucks to hunt a deer should and does only give you that right and it ends there IMO. I mean what ever happened to manners and knowing your place you are just a guest in our state as we are in yours and must let it go at that . Its like us telling AZ. that thier imigration laws and the way they want to handle it are wrong "which thay are not" but its thair game and lwhere they live we once again are just a guest there. It is what it is and Iowa is exactly like this in fact they do not allow input or just sell hunting licenses over the counter to people who own land there but do not live there or simple out of state hunter. Its draw only or your out and they are not shy about it at all. It is simply folly to think that an out of stater should have any say at all over the residents of that state thats ludicrous at best especially since most game Dept's do not even listen to their own citizens.
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Post by turkeyscout on Jul 31, 2010 17:52:43 GMT -5
ah we (indiana sportsmans)don't have much of a say in indiana..........either!!!...just ask anybody who went to the last NRC meeting!..................turkey scout
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2010 18:14:56 GMT -5
I feel that in the other states that I hunt I only pay for the chance at whatever that animal is .The fact I hunt there but live in another state does not give me any right to tell their game dept. or the people who actually have the game on their land and pay the sales ,property ,payroll ,and every other state tax there that help pay for everything we enjoy there that is included on the hunt there What to do or how to set the season there . Just because a hunter hunts someplace out of state does not give them any right to input especially since they did not vote in the state Government there. I mean the paying of a meisily 200 or 300 bucks to hunt a deer should and does only give you that right and it ends there IMO.I mean what ever happened to manners and knowing your place you are just a guest in our state as we are in yours and must let it go at that . Its like us telling AZ. that thier imigration laws and the way they want to handle it are wrong "which thay are not" but its thair game and lwhere they live we once again are just a guest there. It is what it is and Iowa is exactly like this in fact they do not allow input or just sell hunting licenses over the counter to people who own land there but do not live there or simple out of state hunter. Its draw only or your out and they are not shy about it at all. It is simply folly to think that an out of stater should have any say at all over the residents of that state thats ludicrous at best especially since most game Dept's do not even listen to their own citizens. Last year, my leases alone sent the State of Indiana a little over $30,000 in lease fees. Thats not counting all the money my hunters spent, including the residents that hunted with me. My portion alone was staggering in comparison to what most people pay to hunt deer and ducks. Being that you don't elect the DNR folks, I'd say having a vote in Indiana isn't a requirement to have input on proposals. IMO, I'm a much more valueable stakeholder then some of those that made up these proposals that we are discussing now. I also know for a fact that at least one of the stakeholders the DNR consulted with has made input in Ky. on the crossbow expansion a few yeara ago. In fact, that person supported the end run to the legislature that stopped full expansion. Being that I was the point man on that expansion effort, I feel more than capable of doing the same on his proposals.
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Post by hornharvester on Jul 31, 2010 19:44:13 GMT -5
To me any one that purchases a hunting license for that game or waterfowl animal should have a say or input to how the laws for that season are made, especially when the DNR asks for hunter input. Out of state hunters who hunt in Indiana to me should not be excluded if they have purchased a license the previous year. h.h.
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Post by deerman1 on Jul 31, 2010 22:37:21 GMT -5
I feel that in the other states that I hunt I only pay for the chance at whatever that animal is .The fact I hunt there but live in another state does not give me any right to tell their game dept. or the people who actually have the game on their land and pay the sales ,property ,payroll ,and every other state tax there that help pay for everything we enjoy there that is included on the hunt there What to do or how to set the season there . Just because a hunter hunts someplace out of state does not give them any right to input especially since they did not vote in the state Government there. I mean the paying of a meisily 200 or 300 bucks to hunt a deer should and does only give you that right and it ends there IMO.I mean what ever happened to manners and knowing your place you are just a guest in our state as we are in yours and must let it go at that . Its like us telling AZ. that thier imigration laws and the way they want to handle it are wrong "which thay are not" but its thair game and lwhere they live we once again are just a guest there. It is what it is and Iowa is exactly like this in fact they do not allow input or just sell hunting licenses over the counter to people who own land there but do not live there or simple out of state hunter. Its draw only or your out and they are not shy about it at all. It is simply folly to think that an out of stater should have any say at all over the residents of that state thats ludicrous at best especially since most game Dept's do not even listen to their own citizens. Last year, my leases alone sent the State of Indiana a little over $30,000 in lease fees. Thats not counting all the money my hunters spent, including the residents that hunted with me. My portion alone was staggering in comparison to what most people pay to hunt deer and ducks. Being that you don't elect the DNR folks, I'd say having a vote in Indiana isn't a requirement to have input on proposals. IMO, I'm a much more valueable stakeholder then some of those that made up these proposals that we are discussing now. I also know for a fact that at least one of the stakeholders the DNR consulted with has made input in Ky. on the crossbow expansion a few yeara ago. In fact, that person supported the end run to the legislature that stopped full expansion. Being that I was the point man on that expansion effort, I feel more than capable of doing the same on his proposals. OH I see one problem here. You are an outfitter and you are not an Indiana resident your tax money is paid where you live .Sorry but this is a red flag and you now IMHO should not be in the loop here in any way shape or form yoy are defiantly part of the problem not the solution as hunting is concerned with that much land sowed up .Now I know your distant for many as well as my opinion about leasing land for hunting . You are not in this for the pure reason of just hunting its about money to you and that is what it is . And you are not going to get any pity from most hunters in this state or any other . And I know for sure that the reason you and your kind want a voice is because you stand to loose money .But hay oh well you did not think about how many hunters lost hunting rights or hunting land on all the ground you leased up . It is what it is pal .Your all about business most of us are just about the spot and the deer only. Oh and FYI the DNR Heads are appointed by those we elect period . Now what ? Same thing its all about our interstate politics not what some guy across one or two state lines think or want here . Oh you are amazeing you seem to think you are larger stake holder than anyone here in Indiana and that fact that your state allowed anyone outside it to do an end around and stop or break as game proposal is pethetic .And if my state DNR reps are that weak minded and gutless to let an out of stater set policy They deserve to be fired on the spot! Sorry Not gonna budge on this one dude you just showed why you are so interested about who kills what where and why you want input so much or feel you deserve it and its not right IMO.
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Post by Decatur on Aug 1, 2010 0:28:13 GMT -5
I, like Turkeyscout, am more concerned with Hoosiers having a say first, then we'll worry about out of staters!
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Post by thecommissioner on Aug 1, 2010 2:07:33 GMT -5
Quote: ( you'll have to use a bit of creative English to get through this , but I sure you can get the point ) "Remeber this you have no dog in this fight since we seem to not have any dong in KY ,IL, or OH or any other state that we from Indiana may hunt in or have a lease in or own a spit of land in . If ya do not live here or us there step off is my motto . " Why did you quote gibberish?
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Post by mrfixit on Aug 1, 2010 4:52:49 GMT -5
The deer in Indiana are a state resource much like our state parks, all the trees on state property or anything else that belongs to the State of Indiana. They belong to each and every resident of the State of Indiana. If your a resident you own a part of the deer herd. Do you think visitors from out of state need to tell us how to manage our state parks or what lumber we can cut from state property just because they paid to visit our state parks?
I don't stick my nose in other peoples business and I don't think or want out of state residents telling our state how to manage our resources. I don't go to a Kentucky or Iowa forum and try to tell them how to manage their deer herd, it ain't none of my freakin business. If I wan't to go there and hunt I know I'm nothing but a visitor and if I don't like it I don't have to spend my money there. It's just like Illinois, I don't like their gun laws so I refuse to spend a dime in Illinois. I fill up with gas before I enter the state and I don't stop until I get out of that state. To allow out of state hunters to have a vote in how we manage our deer herd is riding on the edge of a very slippery slope. One day when you awake and you have no place to hunt remember how you supported allowing guests a say in managing our deer herd.
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Post by drs on Aug 1, 2010 8:18:51 GMT -5
Deerman1 wrote: "...OH I see one problem here. You are an outfitter and you are not an Indiana resident your tax money is paid where you live .Sorry but this is a red flag and you now IMHO should not be in the loop here in any way shape or form you are defiantly part of the problem not the solution as hunting is concerned with that much land sowed up .Now I know your distant for many as well as my opinion about leasing land for hunting..."
Deerman1, if it weren't for the services of an Outfitter, lots of Hunters would not have any where to hunt. They provide a service, and from what I understand it isn't a "cheap" venture, for an Outfitter, to line-up places to hunt, for his Cliental. If you don't like having to lease hunting ground then go out and knock on the doors of land/farm owners in your area and see if they will let you hunt without paying. OR buy your own hunting ground. If you can't find a free place or afford a lease fee or the services of an Outfitter then get another hobby.
Deerman1 wrote: "...You are not in this for the pure reason of just hunting its about money to you and that is what it is . And you are not going to get any pity from most hunters in this state or any other . And I know for sure that the reason you and your kind want a voice is because you stand to loose money .But hay oh well you did not think about how many hunters lost hunting rights or hunting land on all the ground you leased up . It is what it is pal .Your all about business most of us are just about the spot and the deer only...."
Deerman1, Everyone has a right to earn a living, even an Outfitter. You can either use his services or not, your choice. Outfitter (and anyone who buys a Deer Tag Res. & non-Res.) SHOULD have a say in policies the State makes toward Hunting. Also you must consider that Outfitters bring in a lot of Business for locals with their leasing businesses. I am certain a lot of members on this forum use the services of an Outfitter like what Timex offers, and again if you don't like it then buy your own hunting ground. Hunting, like everything else, is NOT free for all!
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Post by js2397 on Aug 1, 2010 8:23:38 GMT -5
I always think good ideas can come from anywhere. I wouldn't want NR to have the most influence but if they have a good idea why not listen.
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Post by throbak on Aug 1, 2010 8:32:45 GMT -5
sorry guys but I,m with deer man on this one . we all talk about special interest groups dictating our laws on everything else what would a outfitter be if it wasn't considered a SIG . And why the big deal at the voting booths on showing ID,s and proving your residence if our votes were for every one who happens to show interest in OUR concerns
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Post by mrfixit on Aug 1, 2010 8:35:24 GMT -5
I always think good ideas can come from anywhere. I wouldn't want NR to have the most influence but if they have a good idea why not listen. Good ideas and helping to form policies are two completely different animals.
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Post by jkratz on Aug 1, 2010 9:26:20 GMT -5
I understand the "want" for NR say in the IN game laws/seasons/etc. But bottom line, bad idea. We don't need IN to turn into anotehr IL where access to land is next to impossible because of the number of outfitters and leases throughout the state. You give NRs a voice and you end up in the same boat, and you can stamp gurantee on that.
Kratz
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Post by deerman1 on Aug 1, 2010 9:51:39 GMT -5
Deerman1, if it weren't for the services of an Outfitter, lots of Hunters would not have any where to hunt. They provide a service, and from what I understand it isn't a "cheap" venture, for an Outfitter, to line-up places to hunt, for his Cliental. If you don't like having to lease hunting ground then go out and knock on the doors of land/farm owners in your area and see if they will let you hunt without paying. OR buy your own hunting ground. If you can't find a free place or afford a lease fee or the services of an Outfitter then get another hobby.
Sorry But you seem to miss the point its about influencing g the laws and rules made in this state not buying or leasing land .Also not every hunter should have to buy or lease hunting ground ..I personally own a farm and we also have another in the family north of us 75 miles and I know how to and am not afraid to knock on doors to get to hunt if that is what I have to been there done that.
This post was not about me its about the fact that all this leasing up of ground causes more leasing ,And outfitting on lease land , this is what is killing hunting and if the state supports this they deserve to be over run with deer since only a few get to hunt where dozens or thousands of In hunters used to.
And to the point of my post that you missed there is no way an out of state business man should ever be able to have the ear of any IN gov official when it comes to setting policy for Hoosier Hunters ever .
Deerman1, Everyone has a right to earn a living, even an Outfitter. You can either use his services or not, your choice. Outfitter (and anyone who buys a Deer Tag Res. & non-Res.) SHOULD have a say in policies the State makes toward Hunting. Also you must consider that Outfitters bring in a lot of Business for locals with their leasing businesses. I am certain a lot of members on this forum use the services of an Outfitter like what Timex offers, and again if you don't like it then buy your own hunting ground. Hunting, like everything else, is NOT free for all![/quote]
Once again not about earning a living and like you said if they want to Outfit here go buy the land if its that important for them there is also public land too but I do not much personally care for the selling of outfitted hunting on public land that the person paying could hunt on their own !! See my point now . Like I have said to some on this site there is a lack of compassion on this site by a few that is pitiful .
And the reason now that many need an outfitter here in their home state is just because of the uncounted acres of leased up land by the very outfitters that they now have to pay to hunt nonpublic land .And that is sad.Earning a liveing in Indiana by and out of state Outfiter is not a reason they should be allowed to set policy for resident hunters
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Post by deerman1 on Aug 1, 2010 9:54:43 GMT -5
I always think good ideas can come from anywhere. I wouldn't want NR to have the most influence but if they have a good idea why not listen. Good ideas and helping to form policies are two completely different animals. Yip you nailed it
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Post by deerman1 on Aug 1, 2010 9:56:34 GMT -5
Quote: ( you'll have to use a bit of creative English to get through this , but I sure you can get the point ) "Remeber this you have no dog in this fight since we seem to not have any dong in KY ,IL, or OH or any other state that we from Indiana may hunt in or have a lease in or own a spit of land in . If ya do not live here or us there step off is my motto . " Why did you quote gibberish? Nice !
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