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Post by drs on Aug 1, 2010 10:05:20 GMT -5
We don't need IN to turn into anotehr IL where access to land is next to impossible because of the number of outfitters and leases throughout the state. Kratz Sorry, but Indiana is fast becomming like Illinois & other States. Indiana has a disadvantage inthat it is too crowded & not enough hunting property which is shrinking every year. There are public hunting & fishing areas, but they are crowded, atleast for my taste. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2010 10:31:15 GMT -5
first I agree with woody tags should be reciprocal second I totally agree with deer man timex I think you motto step off should be butt out
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Post by drs on Aug 1, 2010 10:32:12 GMT -5
Deerman1 said: ".....Sorry But you seem to miss the point its about influencing g the laws and rules made in this state not buying or leasing land .Also not every hunter should have to buy or lease hunting ground ..I personally own a farm and we also have another in the family north of us 75 miles and I know how to and am not afraid to knock on doors to get to hunt if that is what I have to been there done that....."
Deerman1, I don't understand what point you are trying to make (?) You state you own a Farm and have access to another one 75 miles away. So since you yourself have a farm on which to hunt what's your point??
This post was not about me its about the fact that all this leasing up of ground causes more leasing ,And outfitting on lease land , this is what is killing hunting and if the state supports this they deserve to be over run with deer since only a few get to hunt where dozens or thousands of In hunters used to.
Like I said in another post to you, Outfitters provide money for local folks + the landowner who wishes to lease out his/her property to an Outfitter, to manage the number of Hunters, should have that right. The State supports this as it means more money for their "coffers" and I seriously doubt if it will ever change. Also if Indiana is so overran with Deer then cars, trucks, development, and EHD will trim their numbers.
And to the point of my post that you missed there is no way an out of state business man should ever be able to have the ear of any IN gov official when it comes to setting policy for Hoosier Hunters ever .
Sorry, but it happens in ALL 50 States....."Money Talks". The State is not going to turn away a leasing business or deny an Outfitter a business venture.
Once again not about earning a living and like you said if they want to Outfit here go buy the land if its that important for them there is also public land too but I do not much personally care for the selling of outfitted hunting on public land that the person paying could hunt on their own !! See my point now . Like I have said to some on this site there is a lack of compassion on this site by a few that is pitiful.
Again, don't know what you're making referance to. If someone wants to sell their land and the buyer happpens to be an Outfitter then he should have the right to buy the property. If you don't want Outfitters on your property then that's your right. About compassion on this hunting forum, like all forums there is room for improvement; I've been "Fried" a few times too but I normally just sit out and cool off.
And the reason now that many need an outfitter here in their home state is just because of the uncounted acres of leased up land by the very outfitters that they now have to pay to hunt nonpublic land .And that is sad.Earning a liveing in Indiana by and out of state Outfiter is not a reason they should be allowed to set policy for resident hunters.
I empathize with your above statement, but the fact is "time are changing", the State needs money, and the Outfitter is just trying to fill a need for those who have no place to hunt for a little profit.
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Post by mrfixit on Aug 1, 2010 10:34:34 GMT -5
Sorry, but Indiana is fast becomming like Illinois & other States. Indiana has a disadvantage inthat it is too crowded & not enough hunting property which is shrinking every year. There are public hunting & fishing areas, but they are crowded, atleast for my taste. Let's all move to Kentucky as the good drs must be yearning for the feeling of hunting in a state that's overcrowded with not enough hunting property! Overcrowded is something similar to New Jersey or the District of Columbia. Indiana is nowhere as crowded as you want people to think. A quick google search reveals the US average is 86.2 people per square mile. Indiana is ranked 17th and Kentucky isn't far behind at 22nd in 2007. Is it easier to push your anti-gun agenda if everyone believes the state is overcrowded? |
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Post by drs on Aug 1, 2010 11:20:35 GMT -5
Sorry, but Indiana is fast becomming like Illinois & other States. Indiana has a disadvantage inthat it is too crowded & not enough hunting property which is shrinking every year. There are public hunting & fishing areas, but they are crowded, atleast for my taste. Let's all move to Kentucky as the good drs must be yearning for the feeling of hunting in a state that's overcrowded with not enough hunting property! Overcrowded is something similar to New Jersey or the District of Columbia. Indiana is nowhere as crowded as you want people to think. A quick google search reveals the US average is 86.2 people per square mile. Indiana is ranked 17th and Kentucky isn't far behind at 22nd in 2007. Is it easier to push your anti-gun agenda if everyone believes the state is overcrowded? First, I don't have an "anti-gun agenda" as you might think. Also what's the population of the county you live in?  The population of the Ky county, where I live, is around 20,000 & 80% live southern part of the county. I think the population has even dropped to 19,000 but haven't seen any 2010 population figures yet. |
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Post by racktracker on Aug 1, 2010 11:41:08 GMT -5
I'm not sure how this became an "out of state outfiitter" should have no say so from whether or not a NR should have say so or not. If Timex outfits up here, and I think he does because he sponsors a youth hunt on his property, I'll bet he also buys a tag or two and hunts here too.
As such it is my belief that anyone who pays for a tag should have a say so. I agree that I want my DNR to make the most learned decision that they can make. It makes NO difference to me where they get that information from.
Are you all against the DNR talking to other state's DNRs? If not why would you be against then listening to other state's residents who hunt Indiana? If Ohio's DNR says short gun seasons are the way to go wouldn't it be nice to hear from the Ohio deer hunters as to how that impacts them? I think it would.
Will a NR make a difference in what the DNR does? Doubtful as residents have them outnumbered 25 to 1.
A case in point - the NR bonus tag is $150. That is TOTALLY stupid if the DNR really wants to reduce the herd. Do we actually think any Indiana deer hunter will bring that up to the DNR and ask for a reduction? Noooo, most even want that to be higher. Why? To keep out these NRs from killing "our deer". Bring all comments ( NRS and residents ) to light and let the DNR decide what is best.
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Post by drs on Aug 1, 2010 11:50:22 GMT -5
GREAT POST, racktracker! 
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Post by freedomhunter on Aug 1, 2010 15:06:58 GMT -5
We don't need IN to turn into anotehr IL where access to land is next to impossible because of the number of outfitters and leases throughout the state. Kratz Sorry, but Indiana is fast becomming like Illinois & other States. Indiana has a disadvantage inthat it is too crowded & not enough hunting property which is shrinking every year. There are public hunting & fishing areas, but they are crowded, atleast for my taste. Yep, someone gets it. Indiana will never be like the trophy areas of Illinois, Ohio, or Iowa. Too much broken up tracts, high population of people and hunters. Drive to western illinois and count the number of houses. No matter what our regs, we will never draw nr hunters like those states. Good post, drs. |
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Post by deerman1 on Aug 1, 2010 15:08:49 GMT -5
Deerman1, I don't understand what point you are trying to make (?) You state you own a Farm and have access to another one 75 miles away. So since you yourself have a farm on which to hunt what's your point??
It was simple . It was exactly what I wrote in my above posts The fact that tens of thousands of Indiana hunters are loosing hunting land and hunting rights to a few hundred or in this case a few thousand out of state hunters and outfitters that lease up ground wholesale and the state DNR does not know how to fix that is just plain stupid KS. OH ,MI and others have and do fix this by paying land owners to allow in state hunters access .
Like I said in another post to you, Outfitters provide money for local folks + the landowner who wishes to lease out his/her property to an Outfitter, to manage the number of Hunters, should have that right. The State supports this as it means more money for their "coffers" and I seriously doubt if it will ever change. Also if Indiana is so overran with Deer then cars, trucks, development, and EHD will trim their numbers.
I made the response to this clear in my previous post if you do not get it Here it is the fact that money and business of leasing and outfitting is destroying Indiana hunters just walking on and getting permission
Sorry, but it happens in ALL 50 States....."Money Talks". The State is not going to turn away a leasing business or deny an Outfitter a business venture.
No they are not but outfitters should not have voice in what we have set as hunting rules and state policy especially when they do not live here .
Again, don't know what you're making reference to. If someone wants to sell their land and the buyer happens to be an Outfitter then he should have the right to buy the property. If you don't want Outfitters on your property then that's your right. About compassion on this hunting forum, like all forums there is room for improvement; I've been "Fried" a few times too but I normally just sit out and cool off.
Well its simple that Leasing ground out from under regular average hunters is wrong no mater how you feel about it .It is a major factor in this states deer issues of having to many deer in many areas.
I empathize with your above statement, but the fact is "time are changing", the State needs money, and the Outfitter is just trying to fill a need for those who have no place to hunt for a little profit.[/quote]
Money money money its the reason that hunting and hunters are degrading the sport and pushing regular hunters out period .Access ,outfitting ,and antler worship all relate right back to leasing and loss of hunting ground for hunters .
These posts are not about me or my situation it is about others and the plight of lost hunting and the fact that out of stat hunters and outfitters seem to way to interested and want to be way to influential with our DNR and rules and this is not right no matter what state you live in. Odd how those out of state get into the fray when they feel some resistance isn't it .
As I had posted in another thread You are guests in our state as we are in yours .It is no different that you coming to my home or me yours . Treat it with respect and stay out of the peoples who lives there personal business and follow their rules .Cause when you start to mettle in their everyday lives they will show you the door .It is about respecting the fact that when you go places it is what it is there.
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Post by mrfixit on Aug 1, 2010 16:32:37 GMT -5
First, I don't have an "anti-gun agenda" as you might think. Also what's the population of the county you live in? The population of the Ky county, where I live, is around 20,000 & 80% live southern part of the county. I think the population has even dropped to 19,000 but haven't seen any 2010 population figures yet. Doesn't really matter how many people live in your county what matters is the density per square mile. Which county in KY do you reside? The density of the county I live in is 61 people per square mile which is well below the national average of 86.2 and even below the KY average of 106.8 people per square mile. East Chicago and Gary really screw density count for Indiana. If you was remove East Chicago from Indiana's average Indiana would then probably be in the vicinity of the Kentucky average. |
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Post by deerman1 on Aug 1, 2010 18:14:27 GMT -5
Yha what really does this have to do with all this My county has around 110,000 give or take weekly that live in it . And if you get to South of Indy up to at least 75 miles north there are a whole bunch of folks liveing in most of the central part of the state . Sure Gary & E Chicago has a bunch of folks but so does Every where from Ft Wayne to south of Indy. Like I said those who do not live here or get out of their home area really just do not have a good understanding on this state or its deer herd.
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Post by oldhoyt on Aug 2, 2010 6:06:01 GMT -5
I plan to hunt Ohio this year. My brother goes every year, and it's been a while since I went. Last time I went, NR tags were about $125 for the first tag and $25 each for additional tags. That's a better deal than IN.
And on this outfitter thing. I agree with deerman, outfitters and leasing is the biggest threat to the average hunter. What is a guy that pays to hunt after, a doe? No, he wants a chance at a big buck. So-called "Lease managers" have no incentive to shoot does, because that would only encourage their "money deer" to leave the land they control to find does.
I'm not afraid to knock on doors, I've knocked on many. I'm as polite and respectful as anyone, dress properly, etc. By far the most common response is "No". Next most common response is "I have a guy that hunts", and third is "We hunt it ourselves". That leaves only a very slim chance to gain permission. Right now I have one spot to hunt on private ground.
Leasing DOES "lock up" land for a few hunters that otherwise might be available to a greater number of walk-on hunters. Leasing DOES negatively affect my chances of gaining permission. Leasing DOES lead to higher deer numbers (many that lease ground are not after does, or don't want to pay for high NR doe tags).
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Post by drs on Aug 2, 2010 6:49:05 GMT -5
Doesn't really matter how many people live in your county what matters is the density per square mile. Which county in KY do you reside? The density of the county I live in is 61 people per square mile which is well below the national average of 86.2 and even below the KY average of 106.8 people per square mile. East Chicago and Gary really screw density count for Indiana. If you was remove East Chicago from Indiana's average Indiana would then probably be in the vicinity of the Kentucky average. Where I live, in 10 Sq. Miles there is maybe 75 people or less. You do the Math concerning people per sq mile. Where I lived in Indiana (Vanderburgh County) there were two times more people in a 3 mile area around where I lived, then in the entire county (Taylor)I live now. Actually, I live on the border of LaRue & Taylor counties. Lots of forests, Game, and very Q-U-I-E-T!! |
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Post by drs on Aug 2, 2010 6:52:26 GMT -5
Yha what really does this have to do with all this My county has around 110,000 give or take weekly that live in it . And if you get to South of Indy up to at least 75 miles north there are a whole bunch of folks liveing in most of the central part of the state . Sure Gary & E Chicago has a bunch of folks but so does Every where from Ft Wayne to south of Indy. Like I said those who do not live here or get out of their home area really just do not have a good understanding on this state or its deer herd. FOR ME! |
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Post by dbd870 on Aug 2, 2010 7:09:26 GMT -5
To me any one that purchases a hunting license for that game or waterfowl animal should have a say or input to how the laws for that season are made, especially when the DNR asks for hunter input. Out of state hunters who hunt in Indiana to me should not be excluded if they have purchased a license the previous year. h.h. Agreed. |
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Post by drs on Aug 2, 2010 8:09:54 GMT -5
Sorry, but Indiana is fast becomming like Illinois & other States. Indiana has a disadvantage inthat it is too crowded & not enough hunting property which is shrinking every year. There are public hunting & fishing areas, but they are crowded, atleast for my taste. Yep, someone gets it. Indiana will never be like the trophy areas of Illinois, Ohio, or Iowa. Too much broken up tracts, high population of people and hunters. Drive to western illinois and count the number of houses. No matter what our regs, we will never draw nr hunters like those states. Good post, drs. Thanks. |
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Aug 2, 2010 8:22:09 GMT -5
I've hunted Kentucky leases in the past & I always considered myself a "guest" to the state. With that being said, I never felt as though that I should have the right to participate in Kentucky's DNR decision making policies. Now if I "owned" property in Kentucky as a non-resident then I would be financially supporting the infrastructure & have some say-so.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2010 8:32:42 GMT -5
[ Yep, someone gets it. Indiana will never be like the trophy areas of Illinois, Ohio, or Iowa. Too much broken up tracts, high population of people and hunters. Drive to western illinois and count the number of houses. No matter what our regs, we will never draw nr hunters like those states. ) I disagree. Indiana has the same potential. Explain how a state bracketed by Illinois and Ohio can't have the same quality? Broken tracts.....with some places not huntable because of it equals perfect WT deer habitat. They'll live in the back yard of a subdivison if they want to. High population areas....perfect habitat and why you have urban zones. The problem is that most of the urban areas are unhuntable but hold large numbers of deer and some great bucks. High number of hunters......both of the states mentioned have more hunters than Indiana does, so that's not a factor in how good Indiana can be. Drawing NR hunters......they will go where they can find a place to hunt and get licenses/tags. That is as long as there is quality hunting. If the DNR is correct on these rule changes, then the quality will go up and more hunters will come. Those of you that don't like NR hunters will want to make sure the quality does not go up. IMO, the quality is good now and doesn't need fixing. I hunt states with "better" reputations and like Ind. over them just fine. |
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Post by Decatur on Aug 2, 2010 9:20:26 GMT -5
I've hunted Kentucky leases in the past & I always considered myself a "guest" to the state. With that being said, I never felt as though that I should have the right to participate in Kentucky's DNR decision making policies. Now if I "owned" property in Kentucky as a non-resident then I would be financially supporting the infrastructure & have some say-so.  |
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Post by drs on Aug 2, 2010 9:25:00 GMT -5
[ Yep, someone gets it. Indiana will never be like the trophy areas of Illinois, Ohio, or Iowa. Too much broken up tracts, high population of people and hunters. Drive to western illinois and count the number of houses. No matter what our regs, we will never draw nr hunters like those states. ) I disagree. Indiana has the same potential. Explain how a state bracketed by Illinois and Ohio can't have the same quality? Broken tracts.....with some places not huntable because of it equals perfect WT deer habitat. They'll live in the back yard of a subdivison if they want to. High population areas....perfect habitat and why you have urban zones. The problem is that most of the urban areas are unhuntable but hold large numbers of deer and some great bucks. High number of hunters......both of the states mentioned have more hunters than Indiana does, so that's not a factor in how good Indiana can be. Drawing NR hunters......they will go where they can find a place to hunt and get licenses/tags. That is as long as there is quality hunting. If the DNR is correct on these rule changes, then the quality will go up and more hunters will come. Those of you that don't like NR hunters will want to make sure the quality does not go up. IMO, the quality is good now and doesn't need fixing. I hunt states with "better" reputations and like Ind. over them just fine. I didn't write that post (Below), Tom, freedomhunter did.: "....Yep, someone gets it. Indiana will never be like the trophy areas of Illinois, Ohio, or Iowa. Too much broken up tracts, high population of people and hunters. Drive to western illinois and count the number of houses. No matter what our regs, we will never draw nr hunters like those states....." |
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The population of the Ky county, where I live, is around 20,000 & 80% live southern part of the county. I think the population has even dropped to 19,000 but haven't seen any 2010 population figures yet.
