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Post by kevin1 on Apr 4, 2006 17:59:38 GMT -5
No , that isn't sporting or ethical and I don't need meat that badly .
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Post by indianagooseman on Apr 4, 2006 19:57:55 GMT -5
I have never and probably will never shoot a turkey in a tree but can someone explain the difference "ethically" between that and say shooting a squirrel napping on a branch or shooting deer on a deer drive?
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Post by jrbhunter on Apr 4, 2006 19:59:09 GMT -5
BS'er you wouldn't shoot a bedded deer? What about a deer that is urinating or in the process of completing urination? How do you feel about grazing or digestation... is that a deal breaker? LOL!!!! I love these ethical questions Woody, because so many people just know their way is the right way. I have always found there is a direct correlation between extreme ethicists and a lack of experience in the field... I personally cannot fathom an ethical man using a 9 iron on a downhill lie under 90 yards from the pin. (Yes I'm clueless about golf and that's the point)Due to my pre-season scouting efforts I rarely find myself searching for a roosted bird at daybreak... but if I did, I hope my skill at calling and/or ambushing could get him killed. I wouldn't shoot him just as an excuse to stay in the woods longer--- but I'll shoot anything that craps on me. EDIT: Gooseman you probably just opened up a big can of worms... DEER DRIVES?!?!?! Oh my goodness, is that where a deer travels toward a hunter against it's own free will? I for one must say I shoot nothing under 140" on a deer drive, take that to the bank!
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Post by Rick Lyon on Apr 4, 2006 20:35:25 GMT -5
No Way! We must respect the game the game we hunt.
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Post by bsutravis on Apr 4, 2006 21:00:48 GMT -5
What kind of shot would you have at a bedded deer??? Probably pee-poor with it's legs folded up blocking it's heart. No way would I take a shot at a bedded deer. Once it gets up....absolutely.
And for the record....I've never seen a squirrel napping on a branch, they usually are barking at me because climbed their favorite tree while deer hunting.
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Post by pbr on Apr 4, 2006 21:03:00 GMT -5
Probably not.
Even though I was slick enough to get within 30 yards of him without him seeing me I still wouldn't call that hunting him.
Pass.
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Post by hoosier on Apr 4, 2006 21:21:07 GMT -5
What's the point? That is akin to a slob jacklighting a nice buck and thinking he is a good hunter (trust me, these men exist). Shoot a Gobbler off its roost?....NOPE, I'll just sleep in, thankyou!
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Post by jrbhunter on Apr 5, 2006 4:05:38 GMT -5
What kind of shot would you have at a bedded deer??? Probably pee-poor with it's legs folded up blocking it's heart. No way would I take a shot at a bedded deer. Once it gets up....absolutely. And for the record.... I've never seen a squirrel napping on a branch, they usually are barking at me because climbed their favorite tree while deer hunting. I have always found there is a direct correlation between extreme ethicists and a lack of experience in the field...
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Post by jaybob on Apr 5, 2006 4:48:01 GMT -5
I think that it is funny to hear everyone talk about extreme ethics. When I was a kid growing up in Arkansas everyone hunted, not because of the sport of it, but because of heritage, and it put food on the table. It just seems like some guys talk about hunting like it's a softball game or something. I think that it is a respect issue not a ethics issue. If a man shoots a gobbler off the roost and is just as proud of it as if he called it in, then who are you to judge him for something that is legal. There are people out there that actually do hunt for meat, and in my opion there is nothing wrong with that.
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Post by indianagooseman on Apr 5, 2006 6:23:41 GMT -5
EDIT: Gooseman you probably just opened up a big can of worms... DEER DRIVES?!?!?! Oh my goodness, is that where a deer travels toward a hunter against it's own free will? I for one must say I shoot nothing under 140" on a deer drive, take that to the bank! That was sort of my intention because to me stalking within 30 yd a gobbler on the roost ranks WAY HIGHER in skill level than does shooting ANY deer from a drive. I think jaybob hit the nail with his head, if that's how someone wants to get their deer and is proud of themselves for using a perfectly legal means, I'll pat him on the back and never utter a word but congratulations. But I'm still waiting for an explanation on how that is less "ethical". Any takers?
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Post by hunter7x on Apr 5, 2006 6:34:44 GMT -5
Anyone see the Turkey Video where Michael Waddel shot one out of a tree ? He called it to him and it flew up into a tree and he shot it out of a tree. Then had a game warden on with him letting everyone know it was legal to kill it the way he did.
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Post by bsutravis on Apr 5, 2006 8:17:40 GMT -5
I disagree.....I think it's pretty easy to get right into the middle of roosted turkeys. I've sat right down with them all around me countless times. The trick is being able to knock one down once it hits the ground. I don't think that a gobblers eyesight is all that keen in the dark. They have deer moving and rustling the leaves all night...they are use to seeing dark shadows moving below them. If you take your time you can slip right into their bedroom if you know where they are roosting...there's not that much skill involved other than walking softly.
If that buddy that took the deer by any legal means told you the story of how he shot this young buck out from under it's Mama while it was nursing you are telling me you would pat him on the back simply cause it was a legal kill??? I'd lower my thoughts for this buddy in the hunting department in an instant! This is another easy call for me, I wont kill a doe who obviously has young 'uns with her. Sure it's legal to shoot her, but you might also be killing 2 other deer at the same time.
There are plenty of legal ways to kill a deer or turkey, but there is a code that's inside each one of us that determines whether WE feel it's a shot we should take or not take. Some people have more consideration for the animal we are hunting I suppose.....some feel that if it's out there than it's all fair game. Just a matter of personal preference.
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Post by mbogo on Apr 5, 2006 9:03:09 GMT -5
I've discussed this issue with several occasions and I have always found it amusing that more often than not the people that bemoan shooting a bird off the roost the most have not qualms at all about shooting a tom the instant its feet touch the ground. It seems like splitting hairs to me.
Is it ethical? Absolutely!! Is it the most thrilling way to get your bird? No, but I will not look down upon anyone that decides to shoot a turkey off the roost. IMO, anyone that can successfully get within range of a roosted bird has earned his bird as much as anyone else.
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Post by indianagooseman on Apr 5, 2006 9:35:21 GMT -5
If that buddy that took the deer by any legal means told you the story of how he shot this young buck out from under it's Mama while it was nursing you are telling me you would pat him on the back simply cause it was a legal kill??? I'd lower my thoughts for this buddy in the hunting department in an instant! This is another easy call for me, I wont kill a doe who obviously has young 'INS with her. Sure it's legal to shoot her, but you might also be killing 2 other deer at the same time. I proudly answer yes! Let's just say the hunter was a 10 yr. old boy/girl to whom this was their first opportunity to take a deer. Absolutely I would pat them on the back! You wouldn't? But then whats so sporting or ethical about shooting deer on a deer drive? And who says that shooting a gobbler off the roost has anything to do with sneaking in under the cover of darkness? I've seen many many birds on the roost well after sunup some as late as 10am, Do you think that it's easy to sneak up under a gobbler during the day? I'm sure you'd agree that would be a much harder way to hunt them. In fact if you really want to challenge yourself make that the only way you hunt them. Wait till after daylight and only shoot the birds you can stalk up on/under. Would you disagree or is that still under the realm of "unethical"? and by the way, just for the record, I have yet to cast my vote on this thread yet I'm still researching.
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Post by bsutravis on Apr 5, 2006 9:36:22 GMT -5
Well than why can't we dig up groundhogs and get them out of their den??? Or rip apart a beaver lodge and kill the beaver in there? IMO it IS different when you kill an animal which is in it's home....it just happens that a turkey's "home" is the branch that it choose to land on the evening prior. There are laws preventing a "hunter" from disturbing wildlife while it's in it's den or nest, and I am just making a personal preference to transfer those rules upon myself when it comes to shooting a bird on the roost. It's no different than how many hunters will not shoot waterfowl while it's "sitting" on the water, or how many will not shoot a rabbit while it's holding tight in cover... You "kick" them up and then shoot to add some sport to the challenge.
No one on this site can change any other member....it's up to you to change yourself. I believe that most hunters who take kills that most others (and judging from the poll results I fall into the most other category) would pass up are hunters that have a more difficult time seeing the game they are after. A seasoned hunter shouldn't have to pop a sleeping bird....that hunter is good enough to take a turkey the way that 99% of the hunters do.
If you feel that it's ok to bust one on the roost, than go ahead.......me personally, I wish there were a law preventing it....although it would be very difficult to ever enforce.
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Post by indianagooseman on Apr 5, 2006 9:45:01 GMT -5
Well than why can't we dig up groundhogs and get them out of their den??? Or rip apart a beaver lodge and kill the beaver in there? IMO it IS different when you kill an animal which is in it's home....it just happens that a turkey's "home" is the branch that it choose to land on the evening prior. There are laws preventing a "hunter" from disturbing wildlife while it's in it's den or nest, and I am just making a personal preference to transfer those rules upon myself when it comes to shooting a bird on the roost. It's no different than how many hunters will not shoot waterfowl while it's "sitting" on the water, or how many will not shoot a rabbit while it's holding tight in cover... You "kick" them up and then shoot to add some sport to the challenge. No one on this site can change any other member....it's up to you to change yourself. I believe that most hunters who take kills that most others (and judging from the poll results I fall into the most other category) would pass up are hunters that have a more difficult time seeing the game they are after. A seasoned hunter shouldn't have to pop a sleeping bird....that hunter is good enough to take a turkey the way that 99% of the hunters do. If you feel that it's ok to bust one on the roost, than go ahead.......me personally, I wish there were a law preventing it....although it would be very difficult to ever enforce. There are laws preventing a "hunter" from disturbing wildlife while it's in it's den or nest, true but last time I checked turkeys nest on the ground. A seasoned hunter shouldn't have to pop a sleeping bird. I agree but I have yet to see a "sleeping" gobbler on in a tree during daylight.
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Post by bsutravis on Apr 5, 2006 10:09:40 GMT -5
Hens nest on the ground.... I look at a roosted turkey as a turkey that's been there overnight and has yet to fly down. The definition of Roost is a perch where a bird rests or sleeps. To me, that's the same as if it were an eagle sitting in it's nest. Just cause the bird is awake, and still standing there makes no difference to me. If it hasn't flown down, I wouldn't shoot it.
If you were actively hunting a tom and as a means of escape it flew into a tree in which you could get a shot....that is NOT shooting the bird on the roost. Totally different situation than the original question in the poll.
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Post by indianagooseman on Apr 5, 2006 10:14:38 GMT -5
OK OK! My vote will go the same as yours did, I admit that it was going there all along but I appriciate the friendly debate. And I still say you can't sneak up under a turkey after the sun is up!
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Post by mbogo on Apr 5, 2006 10:47:37 GMT -5
That is exactly what we don't need. We already have enough silly laws attempting to force everyone to hunt exactly the same way.
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Post by bsutravis on Apr 5, 2006 11:28:16 GMT -5
I agree with ya Gooseman....I don't think you could sneak up on one after sun up either....at least you couldn't get within reasonable shotgun range. I'd never try.....if I seen one still on the branch I'd probably freeze where I was and try to coax him to me with some purrs.
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