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Post by hornharvester on Jan 4, 2010 10:59:27 GMT -5
Last year I shot my deer with a Savage Striker .260 Remington handgun, this year my Savage 10 ML smokeless muzzleloader, next year who knows? With the OBR what makes a difference what you kill your deer with? Guys who use these specialty guns usually practice and are very proficient hunters and are small in numbers.
Right now I'm waiting on a barrel, dies, and cases for a .358 BFG. The gun will be built off a Savage 16 7mm WSM Weather Warrior with a 3.5X10 Leupold Vari-XIII scope. It will hold 3 rounds using Varget powder and a 225 Nosler Accubond bullet. Velocity should be 2500 - 2600 fps. The gun should be capable of 300 yards easy.
The gun is not mine, it belongs to schoolmaster who is a member here. I get the fun part of putting it together and ringing it out. h.h.
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Post by drs on Jan 4, 2010 11:26:26 GMT -5
Last year I shot my deer with a Savage Striker .260 Remington handgun, this year my Savage 10 ML smokeless muzzleloader, next year who knows? With the OBR what makes a difference what you kill your deer with? Guys who use these specialty guns usually practice and are very proficient hunters and are small in numbers. Right now I'm waiting on a barrel, dies, and cases for a .358 BFG. The gun will be built off a Savage 16 7mm WSM Weather Warrior with a 3.5X10 Leupold Vari-XIII scope. It will hold 3 rounds using Varget powder and a 225 Nosler Accubond bullet. Velocity should be 2500 - 2600 fps. The gun should be capable of 300 yards easy. The gun is not mine, it belongs to schoolmaster who is a member here. I get the fun part of putting it together and ringing it out. h.h. The fact still remains that nearly all Indiana Counties, except for a very few, are too highly populated to use a cartridge that has a velocity of 2,500 FPS & over. I realize that there are very few hunters that would use these wildcats of which the neat little .358 belong to. Here in Ky we have fewer people and lots of high hills, countryside & mountains which makes rifles safer than in flat Indiana. I couldn't imagine the problems that would happen in small crowded Counties like Vanderburgh with these wildcat loads......TOO CROWDED GUYS.
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Post by hornharvester on Jan 4, 2010 12:47:59 GMT -5
I'm glad the IDNR doesn't share your thoughts on PCR's and handguns. As Dave suggested read the PA report. h.h.
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Post by omegahunter on Jan 4, 2010 13:03:34 GMT -5
This question was posed to officials at a public meeting one time: "So when exactly does the population plummet suddenly when a coyote is hunted with a high-powered rifle."
There was no answer. Population has no bearing on the weapon being used on coyotes, but it does on deer? The population argument just doesn't hold up.
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Post by schoolmaster on Jan 4, 2010 13:29:09 GMT -5
Ya Know having hunted with the "short rifles" including .35 rem, 7mm/08, and .308 I will be darn careful how, when and where I turn that .358 wildcat loose. Guys I used to coyote hunt with are using ar-15 type rifles and not shooting from elevated stands etc. Now they have been known to fire a few rounds off when that coyote comes running out. These .358 wildcats are not going to be used by the average hunter because of the cost. As for the velocity check out the velocities of the savage striker, TC encore and others that shoot cartridges from the 243 up. Yes I saw a striker in the gun shop in 300 wsm and the claim was 28 to 2900 f/s. now that is quick. I am not having this gun built because I WANT to take 300 yard shots but my research has shown that this cartridge is a very good deer harvester at all ranges out to 300 yards. So are many of the rifle cartridge handguns. I am more comfortable and have better control and more precise bullet placement with a rifle. I hunt in areas where if the deer runs and crosses onto neighboring property I have lost the deer. I want to put them down. So the carefully placed high shoulder shot becomes the shot of choice. I have a Savage mz with a .45 Pac Nor barrel on it that shoots a 195 grain Barnes EX at 2600 f/s. I t will hold a 1 inch group at 200 yards. Thsi is very similar to what the .358 will do.
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Post by mrfixit on Jan 4, 2010 13:40:11 GMT -5
Deer hunting with high powered rifles really makes more sense than hunting coyotes with a high power rifle. Most deer hunters are hunting from a elavated stand which means they will more than likely be shooting into the ground. Very few, if any, coyotes are hunted from a elavated stand which means most rounds are turned loose on a more horizantal plane. The whole "Indiana is to populated" argument is nothing more than a scare tactic that has been used for decades to limit our hunting opportunities. I'm just as scared of an idiot with a .22 as I am of an idiot with a high power rifle, an idiot is an idiot and is still an idiot no matter what tool they choose to use.
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fireball168
Junior Member
WSSM Wildcat Aficionado
Posts: 29
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Post by fireball168 on Jan 4, 2010 13:40:47 GMT -5
Right now I'm waiting on a barrel, dies, and cases for a .358 BFG. You won't be waiting long for the dies and brass, I'm taking the package to the Post Office at lunch. ;D
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Post by HuntMeister on Jan 4, 2010 14:48:19 GMT -5
I'm glad the IDNR doesn't share your thoughts on PCR's and handguns. As Dave suggested read the PA report. h.h. What is the PA report and can someone please post a link to this report?
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Post by swilk on Jan 4, 2010 15:00:12 GMT -5
You might want to try the Hornady 3505 over a healthy dose of 10x ...... in addition to the accubond and varget.
I am getting groups under 1" with my M70 using the above mentioned combo. I tried the accubond (with good success) but they are about 2x as expensive as the 3505's.
HH .... when you get ready to work up loads I will gladly share what I have tried if you like.
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Post by den57 on Jan 4, 2010 17:43:39 GMT -5
" The fact still remains that nearly all Indiana Counties, except for a very few, are too highly populated to use a cartridge that has a velocity of 2,500 FPS & over. I realize that there are very few hunters that would use these wildcats of which the neat little .358 belong to. Here in Ky we have fewer people and lots of high hills, countryside & mountains which makes rifles safer than in flat Indiana. I couldn't imagine the problems that would happen in small crowded Counties like Vanderburgh with these wildcat loads......TOO CROWDED GUYS. ".......... Please......
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Post by hornharvester on Jan 4, 2010 18:44:35 GMT -5
You might want to try the Hornady 3505 over a healthy dose of 10x ...... in addition to the accubond and varget. I am getting groups under 1" with my M70 using the above mentioned combo. I tried the accubond (with good success) but they are about 2x as expensive as the 3505's. HH .... when you get ready to work up loads I will gladly share what I have tried if you like. Fireball - I'll be watching for the package. I know schoolmaster is excited about the gun and wants me to tell him when the package arrives. Swilk - Schoolmaster already has Nolser, Hornady and Serrias to try and thanks for the loading data offer. I'll get back to you. h.h.
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Post by dbd870 on Jan 4, 2010 19:02:58 GMT -5
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Post by HuntMeister on Jan 4, 2010 21:06:32 GMT -5
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Post by Decatur on Jan 4, 2010 22:26:48 GMT -5
VERY interesting read dbd! Thanks!
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Post by drs on Jan 5, 2010 9:02:03 GMT -5
I have no doubts concerning the article when compairing the safety factor of shotgun slugs vs bullets fired from a rifle. Actually it has MORE to do with the guy behind the trigger than the firearm itself. My question for the IDNR is: since this article makes some wonderful points then why doesn't the State Of Indiana allow the use of regular rifles?? Right off the bat I would venture a guess that many law makers up in Indianapolis are antigun & hunting or they are really concerned about the use of rifles for Deer Hunting in a highly populated "Flat" State. <Good Article!>
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Post by den57 on Jan 5, 2010 9:25:45 GMT -5
Spot on as usual Dave.......
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Post by hornharvester on Jan 7, 2010 23:20:27 GMT -5
fireball,
I got the package today. I got a question, did you anneal the brass? when the barrel gets here it shouldn't take me more than a day to assemble it. h.h.
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fireball168
Junior Member
WSSM Wildcat Aficionado
Posts: 29
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Post by fireball168 on Jan 8, 2010 6:34:00 GMT -5
The brass is annealed on the neck and shoulder.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 15, 2010 17:56:58 GMT -5
mainehuntingtoday.com/bbb/2007/03/29/new-study-shows-shotguns-are-not-safer-than-rifles-for-deer-hunting/The Pennsylvania DNR still banned the use of HPR's in areas containing a pre-determined population density. Old myths die hard, even when the facts prove otherwise......Here’s how the study went...”Technology has changed for the shotgun and muzzleloader, and the difference between them and a [deer] rifle is decreasing from what it was years ago,” Mountaintop consultant Todd Bacastow said. The study examined ballistics data on three popular deer-hunting guns: a .30-06 rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun and a .50-caliber muzzleloader. The rifle had the greatest maximum range at 2.64 miles, followed by the shotgun at 1.97 miles and the muzzleloader, which generally uses heavier and slower bullets, at 1.74 miles. However, Bacastow noted that to achieve maximum range, shots must be fired at a 35-degree angle, which is highly unlikely in a hunting situation. He noted that a bullet fired at a 35-degree angle toward a deer 100 yards away would fly 210 feet above the animal’s back. Most shots fired by hunters are relatively flat, and even a slight aiming error usually results in a shot less than 5 degrees above the horizon. When shots are fired at an elevation of 5 degrees, the total distances traveled, including ricochets, are 1.66 miles for a rifle bullet and 1.3 miles for a shotgun slug. When shots are fired holding the guns level 3 feet off the ground, the shotgun slug will travel 0.99 of a mile, 16 percent farther than the rifle bullet will travel under the same circumstances. The reason, Bacastow said, is that slugs tend to hold together better and lose less energy during ricochets than rifle bullets. Therefore, slugs often can travel farther than rifle bullets in common hunting scenarios.
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Post by hornharvester on Mar 24, 2010 16:48:29 GMT -5
I received the McGowen barrel for the .358 BFG and put the gun together the last couple days. I had to grind the barrel channel out to fit the barrel and bedded the stock. I took it out today for the first test and using 200 grain Hornady soft points and Varget powder it shot a .992 5 shot group @ 100 yards. Very impressive for the first group. Ive got another barrel coming in a couple weeks. Im building these guns on a Savage 16 WSM action. I cant wait until gun season! h.h.
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