ace1
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Post by ace1 on Nov 3, 2009 20:13:54 GMT -5
What is the best wildcat cartridge out there for Indiana deer hunting?
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Post by danf on Nov 3, 2009 20:46:36 GMT -5
That's a can of worms if I ever saw one. ;D
It all depends on the platform. In a T/C Contender, I'd have to say a .357 Herett with the neck shortened a bit more than spec to get it to legal length. It won't be as fast as other chamberings, but the brass is easy to come by (.30-30 that is shortened, necked up and blown out).
In a bolt gun or Encore, take your pick. Go with one that you can find RELIABLE loading information for, because you definitely won't be able to buy loaded ammo from a factory.
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ace1
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Post by ace1 on Nov 3, 2009 21:16:24 GMT -5
Let me reword that to say best ballistics. Velocity,energy, trajectory. Not personal choice.
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Post by den57 on Nov 4, 2009 9:03:48 GMT -5
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Post by swilk on Nov 5, 2009 12:59:54 GMT -5
I would be tough to beat the 358 BFG ..... I am pushing a 180gr bullet out of a 26" barrel at around 2800fps.
Id say that is ragged edge though .... you could expect 26-2700fps without breaking a sweat.
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Post by drs on Nov 5, 2009 14:31:25 GMT -5
I would be tough to beat the 358 BFG ..... I am pushing a 180gr bullet out of a 26" barrel at around 2800fps. Id say that is ragged edge though .... you could expect 26-2700fps without breaking a sweat. If that cartridge is pushing a 180 grainer @ 2,800 FPS then it is exceeding a 180 grain load for the .308!!
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Post by omegahunter on Nov 5, 2009 17:31:35 GMT -5
Correct, but the .308 beats it in the longer run with its increased BC. The .358 WSSM or BFG or whatever you want to call the WSSM expanded to .358 should be generating 900 ft/lbs or better at 300 yards. It gets better when you go up to a 200 grain bullet. I have been doing a lot of research on this lately. I am liking the MGM/Encore option really well right now as far as cost of getting into a rifle.
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ace1
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Post by ace1 on Nov 5, 2009 18:09:52 GMT -5
Does anyone know anything on the 358 GRANT. I have seen it on a couple different forums.
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ace1
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by ace1 on Nov 5, 2009 20:16:39 GMT -5
The forum where I found the info is shootersforum.com. It is under the wildcat forum. And on the 358 WSSM thread. If anyone has any more info on this cartridge let me know.
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Post by swilk on Nov 6, 2009 8:39:45 GMT -5
Correct, but the .308 beats it in the longer run with its increased BC. The .358 WSSM or BFG or whatever you want to call the WSSM expanded to .358 should be generating 900 ft/lbs or better at 300 yards. It gets better when you go up to a 200 grain bullet. I have been doing a lot of research on this lately. I am liking the MGM/Encore option really well right now as far as cost of getting into a rifle. We tried the 225gr Accubond bullet because of the increased BC but there really isnt any need for the areas we hunt. The BC of the 180 is .248 ..... somewhere between a brick and a loaf of bread. Out to 300 yards the 180 does just fine .....
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Post by drs on Nov 6, 2009 9:00:25 GMT -5
These .358 wilcat cartridges are fine. However I must express my opinion that they AREN'T regular pistol cartridges. When the law passed to allow "PCR"; I am certain they were refering to cartridges like: .44 Mag., .357 Mag., plus several other pistol cartridges that could be used in a long gun. Just because a wildcat cartridge falls within a legal length, it should be noted that "Volume" is a concern too. I really don't think the State of Indiana intended or carefully thought out in referance to wildcat cartridges. IF they allow these wildcats that produce a velocity equaling the velocity of longer "Rifle" cartridges, producing velocities of excess of 2,000 FPS then why not allow .30-30's, .35 Remingtons, or even .308's? ? The whole regulation on this cartridge use is all fouled up.
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Post by hornharvester on Nov 6, 2009 13:34:31 GMT -5
A .45 caliber muzzleloader shooting 150 grain bullet using 150 grain of triple seven travel close to 2500 fps. That is a long way from patch and round ball using black powder.....so whats the difference?
Guys that get into the wildcats are a very, very small group due to expense.
And lastly would you have the IDNR leave out the 44/40? h.h.
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Post by drs on Nov 6, 2009 15:10:23 GMT -5
A .45 caliber muzzleloader shooting 150 grain bullet using 150 grain of triple seven travel close to 2500 fps. That is a long way from patch and round ball using black powder.....so whats the difference? Guys that get into the wildcats are a very, very small group due to expense. And lastly would you have the IDNR leave out the 44/40? h.h. Very Few use M/L and I personally have never achieved a velocity faster than 2,000 FPS with ant type powder charge. The .44-40 WCF is a pistol cartridge that is also used in a rifle, so no problem there. BUT if these individuals keep comming up with "Loop-holes" to get around the Traditional Pistol Cartridges I see a day where if (God forbid) an acccident happens with one of these wildcat cartridges the State could go back to just allowing shotgun slugs & M/L's. The regular pistol cartridges are about the same a your saboted shotgun slugs, but these super-powered .358's et al are a different creatures with their 2,800 FPS speed.
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Post by danf on Nov 7, 2009 12:10:02 GMT -5
The state knew full well that the way the regs were written would open the door for wildcats. It was *NOT* a "Traditional Pistol Cartridges" rule.
Users of the wildcats are along the same lines as handgun hunters- a small percentage of the hunters, and most likely will be more safe (and accurate) than many out there. Due to the nature of wildcats (i.e- not able to buy loaded ammo in an easy manner), it's a small group. Loads will have to be developed by hand loading of ammo which means bench time for the user.
You forget- IN does allow the use of high power rounds. But they are restricted to pistol use only. They don't limit barrel length either, so if one wanted to take a 300+ yard shot at a deer with a .300 Win Mag and a 22" barrel, it is do-able as long as the gun is legally a pistol.
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Post by drs on Nov 7, 2009 12:31:02 GMT -5
The state knew full well that the way the regs were written would open the door for wildcats. It was *NOT* a "Traditional Pistol Cartridges" rule. Users of the wildcats are along the same lines as handgun hunters- a small percentage of the hunters, and most likely will be more safe (and accurate) than many out there. Due to the nature of wildcats (i.e- not able to buy loaded ammo in an easy manner), it's a small group. Loads will have to be developed by hand loading of ammo which means bench time for the user. You forget- IN does allow the use of high power rounds. But they are restricted to pistol use only. They don't limit barrel length either, so if one wanted to take a 300+ yard shot at a deer with a .300 Win Mag and a 22" barrel, it is do-able as long as the gun is legally a pistol. Dumb rule!!
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dsg69
Full Member
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Post by dsg69 on Nov 10, 2009 21:02:55 GMT -5
Any questions on the 358 GRANT just PM me.
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Post by M4Madness on Nov 29, 2009 19:25:17 GMT -5
These .358 wilcat cartridges are fine. However I must express my opinion that they AREN'T regular pistol cartridges. When the law passed to allow "PCR"; I am certain they were refering to cartridges like: .44 Mag., .357 Mag., plus several other pistol cartridges that could be used in a long gun. Just because a wildcat cartridge falls within a legal length, it should be noted that "Volume" is a concern too. I really don't think the State of Indiana intended or carefully thought out in referance to wildcat cartridges. IF they allow these wildcats that produce a velocity equaling the velocity of longer "Rifle" cartridges, producing velocities of excess of 2,000 FPS then why not allow .30-30's, .35 Remingtons, or even .308's? ? The whole regulation on this cartridge use is all fouled up. The DNR knew full well that wildcatters would come up with exceptional rounds, but also knew that their numbers would be even less than those who hunt with pistols chambered in high-powered rifle cartridges. From page 144 of the Indiana National Resources Commission report regarding "PCR's":
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Post by Gunsafe on Jan 4, 2010 8:27:49 GMT -5
Real dumb ass rule.
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Post by drs on Jan 4, 2010 8:47:41 GMT -5
The 358 wildcats and other like it have higher velocities, hence will travel further than your regular pistol cartridges like the .44 Mag. The .358 wildcats produce velocities over 2,100 to 2,500 FPS depending on the bullet weight. While the .44 Magnum has a velocity of some 1,750 FPS (Factory 240 gr) is more like sabot shotgun loads, which are short ranged. If the .358 wildcats are legal for Deer Hunting, then I can't see why they just don't go ahead and legalize the use of cartridges like .35 Rem, .30-30, or even .308. Most of Indiana's Counties are highly populated to allow the use of high velocity loads, and the purpose of using PCR was that they had similar velocity & ranges like the sabot loads in either Shotguns & M/L.
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Post by dbd870 on Jan 4, 2010 9:20:37 GMT -5
Once again - go to the PA study.
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