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Post by greghopper on Aug 23, 2009 21:11:42 GMT -5
Not sure what is proved one way or the other by what size deer one hunter takes or doesn't take... just because a guy doesn't put crosshairs on a 140+ doesn't mean there's not that size or bigger running around the woods, OBR or not.... Exactly.....glad some people get it....
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Post by greghopper on Aug 23, 2009 21:32:32 GMT -5
Not sure what is proved one way or the other by what size deer one hunter takes or doesn't take... just because a guy doesn't put crosshairs on a 140+ doesn't mean there's not that size or bigger running around the woods, OBR or not.... Ditto. The older those bucks get the harder they are to hunt. A mature buck is almost a different species. Sure, some get lucky every now and then and kill a real nice buck, but my hat is off to the guys that consistantly kill big bucks. Yep....very few people shoot a mature Deer every year!!! But one thing that has helped that happen is the OBR....which also has made more opportunity for the next Hunter in the Woods to shoot his mature Deer........ What a GREAT THING
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2009 21:39:30 GMT -5
]Yep....very few people shoot a mature Deer every year!!! But one thing that has helped that happen is the OBR....which also has made more opportunity for the next Hunter in the Woods to shoot his mature Deer........ What a GREAT THING Good to see this back on topic, even though the harvest report in the first post does not prove what your saying to be true.
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Post by greghopper on Aug 23, 2009 22:06:09 GMT -5
]Yep....very few people shoot a mature Deer every year!!! But one thing that has helped that happen is the OBR....which also has made more opportunity for the next Hunter in the Woods to shoot his mature Deer........ What a GREAT THING Good to see this back on topic, even though the harvest report in the first post does not prove what your saying to be true. Sure there are people still shooting button bucks every year, but according to DNR numbers it is less now than at any time in history. When you have more bucks being recruited, and more bucks living year-to-year, you have an increase in overall bucks in the herd. While the number of bucks harvested might be steady, or perhaps even increasing annually, this points to nothing more than the fact that there are more bucks in the herd...and thus, the slight increase annually in the numbers of them killed. More bucks available to hunters= more of them being killed I honestly don't look for the buck harvest to ever decrease significantly in a given year unless 1) EHD or CWD might eliminate thousands of them statewide, or 2) corn is up statewide during the entire season, thus significantly decreasing the harvest of ALL deer. .......................Long Live The "OBR"..............................
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 23, 2009 23:12:25 GMT -5
Sure there are people still shooting button bucks every year, but according to DNR numbers it is less now than at any time in history. [/color][/b] [/quote] Please post the data on that. I think you will find that we are killing MORE button bucks now than ever before up 2,000 a year since 2002.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2009 8:58:56 GMT -5
[ Sure there are people still shooting button bucks every year, but according to DNR numbers it is less now than at any time in history. When you have more bucks being recruited, and more bucks living year-to-year, you have an increase in overall bucks in the herd. While the number of bucks harvested might be steady, or perhaps even increasing annually, this points to nothing more than the fact that there are more bucks in the herd...and thus, the slight increase annually in the numbers of them killed. More bucks available to hunters= more of them being killed I honestly don't look for the buck harvest to ever decrease significantly in a given year unless 1) EHD or CWD might eliminate thousands of them statewide, or 2) corn is up statewide during the entire season, thus significantly decreasing the harvest of ALL deer. .......................Long Live The "OBR".............................. From the research report: During the 2008 deer-hunting season, division personnel examined 3,606 deer to assess sex and age-structure. Yearling deer represented 40% of the adult male harvest, down 4% from 2007..... Good, down 4% (which is slight, but good)The percentage of 1.5 year old males in the adult male harvest has decreased 10% over the last 3 years, while the yearling female harvest has remained relatively stable during that time. Another good point, still slight and not directly linked to the rule change, but could be a result?The proportion of 2.5 year-old males in the adult harvest increased 1 percentage point while the corresponding female statistic decreased 3 percentage points over last year. Among adult males in the sample, 20% were estimated to be >3.5 years old, the highest statistic recorded for that category in recent years. One might claim this as a result of the OBR, but is it a large enough increase to justify the rule???The proportion of 1.5 year-old males in the adult male harvest can provide insight into and a measure of the effects of past antlerless harvests on current herd recruitment. Herd recruitment.....interesting phrase there......This value, as a measure of a change in demographics, can also give indications of large increases in harvest pressure in a given area.Table 3 shows the average age of adult males and females harvested during the opening weekend of firearms season between 1993-2008. The average age of harvested females experiences moderate annual changes, but stays relatively stable throughout time. The average age of harvested males has slowly increased since 2000. It is unknown whether this is a result of the implementation of the OBR in 2002.[/color]
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Post by deerman1 on Aug 24, 2009 17:50:28 GMT -5
Sure there are people still shooting button bucks every year, but according to DNR numbers it is less now than at any time in history. [/color][/b] [/quote] Please post the data on that. I think you will find that we are killing MORE button bucks now than ever before up 2,000 a year since 2002. [/quote] I see this statement as correct also .I would pass an educated guess that there are two direct factors in the Button Buck harvest increase one would be IMHO 1--the early two day youth season and the other is 2--- the higher numbers of and enhanced numbers of antler less tags and pressure on hunters to take more antler less deer . Lets face it for kids and younger or newer hunters the Button buck is by far the easiest target in the woods during gun and when the early youth season opens . They are usually alone or with another button buck or their sibling in gun season due to the does being pushed by bucks almost constantly.I also expect the number of BB taken to climb over the next few years .I believe this to be a unwanted side effect of the OBR . Often times the target with a gun in the hand ends up being a button buck when the hunter walks up on them after a 50 -100 yard shot.
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Post by greghopper on Aug 24, 2009 20:06:17 GMT -5
Sure there are people still shooting button bucks every year, but according to DNR numbers it is less now than at any time in history. [/color][/b] [/quote] Please post the data on that. I think you will find that we are killing MORE button bucks now than ever before up 2,000 a year since 2002. [/quote] The correct term should have been yearlings (1.5 year old)......... as stated in the 2008 Deer Season SummaryThe percentage of 1.5 year old males in the adult male harvest has decreased 10% over the last 3 years, while the yearling female harvest has remained relatively stable during that time....... as stated in the 2008 Biological Deer Check Stations reportAge structure of adult deer examined during opening weekend during the 2001-2008 firearms season shows % of Male Adult Harvest in Age Class Year 1.5 2.5 3.5+ 2001 56 31 14 2002 53 33 14 2003 54 30 16 2004 50 35 15 2005 50 35 16 2006 46 38 16 2007 44 39 17 2008 40 40 20 We went from 56% in 2001 to 40% in 2008 in yearlings (1.5 year old) We went from 14% in 2001 to 20% in 2008 in adult males (antlered bucks)Among adult males in the sample, 20% were estimated to be >3.5 years old, the highest statistic recorded for that category in recent years.BTW...on a side note we went from 10,603(11%) female fawns in 2002 to 19,164(16%) female fawns in 2008....
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Post by ridgerunner on Aug 24, 2009 20:31:05 GMT -5
Why does the the State have to justify OBR to anyone....? They make decisions based on studies conducted by biologist.Indiana will never see a two buck harvest again..They will never undo what's been done. I wish the anti-OBR's would quit the crying all the time. Every dang post on here somehow always leads to OBR and frankly It's getting old..Face the facts that INDIANA will never let hunter harvest 2 bucks like we had in the past, and move on...You could always buy a non-resident tag for Illinois and take two there and one in Indiana..I mean what do you think is really going to happen here?
Get over it! Indiana will never allow you to kill two bucks again....end of story.
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Post by duff on Aug 24, 2009 20:45:54 GMT -5
Why does the the State have to justify OBR to anyone....? They make decisions based on studies conducted by biologist.Indiana will never see a two buck harvest again..They will never undo what's been done. I wish the anti-OBR's would quit the crying all the time. Every dang post on here somehow always leads to OBR and frankly It's getting old..Face the facts that INDIANA will never let hunter harvest 2 bucks like we had in the past, and move on...You could always buy a non-resident tag for Illinois and take two there and one in Indiana..I mean what do you think is really going to happen here? Get over it! Indiana will never allow you to kill two bucks again....end of story. Never say never, and biologist did no such thing...they clearly stated it was a social experiment. But I do agree with you the OBR is dead at least for another few years. As you know the program is still on a trial basis.
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Post by ridgerunner on Aug 24, 2009 20:58:22 GMT -5
social experiment..lol..for who the deer or us humans...?
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Post by greghopper on Aug 24, 2009 20:59:33 GMT -5
Why does the the State have to justify OBR to anyone....? They make decisions based on studies conducted by biologist.Indiana will never see a two buck harvest again..They will never undo what's been done. I wish the anti-OBR's would quit the crying all the time. Every dang post on here somehow always leads to OBR and frankly It's getting old..Face the facts that INDIANA will never let hunter harvest 2 bucks like we had in the past, and move on...You could always buy a non-resident tag for Illinois and take two there and one in Indiana..I mean what do you think is really going to happen here? Get over it! Indiana will never allow you to kill two bucks again....end of story. Never say never, and biologist did no such thing...they clearly stated it was a social experiment. But I do agree with you the OBR is dead at least for another few years. As you know the program is still on a trial basis. I really dont think the term "experiment" was used.....
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Post by ridgerunner on Aug 24, 2009 21:06:33 GMT -5
Whatever they wann term it as...I like it!...I see more big bucks in the past 6 years than I have in the past 20 years of hunting deer in Indiana..
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Post by greghopper on Aug 24, 2009 21:13:34 GMT -5
Whatever they wann term it as...I like it!... I see more big bucks in the past 6 years than I have in the past 20 years of hunting deer in Indiana.. Yep...alot people feel the same way!!! Go to any of the other 5 "Indiana sites" and it's a welcome thing..........
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Post by deerman1 on Aug 24, 2009 21:17:07 GMT -5
Why does the the State have to justify OBR to anyone....? They make decisions based on studies conducted by biologist.Indiana will never see a two buck harvest again..They will never undo what's been done. I wish the anti-OBR's would quit the crying all the time. Every dang post on here somehow always leads to OBR and frankly It's getting old..Face the facts that INDIANA will never let hunter harvest 2 bucks like we had in the past, and move on...You could always buy a non-resident tag for Illinois and take two there and one in Indiana..I mean what do you think is really going to happen here? Get over it! Indiana will never allow you to kill two bucks again....end of story. Begining of story !!! Big time!! The deer herd bucks and does is growing at what will sooner be an exponential rate. Hunters in Indiana is a very finite number that has over the last 7 years hovered around 215 -220 thousand .deer hunters with bow hunters comprising around 78,000 annually with gun hunters comprising the the rest .At the rate we are going the deer herd will reach 1,000,000 deer before the hunter numbers reach 250,000 . Simply put without the added incentive of two bucks or more to keep the few truely succesful hunters we have out plugging away and taking the extra occasional doe be cause they are bored from lack of action or it was just there. Also with hunter numbers starting to dropping instead of growing and more bucks being taken annually the auto deer accidents will be so high that insurance companies will be livid and they will force their method of rule change and there goes your antler dreams big time. There will come a point in the very near future less than 10 years and more than 2 years from now ,that two a year buck harvest will return to this state .Lets face it is going to be healthy for or state to have 750,000 to 1,000,000 deer with half being either an antlered buck or button buck right prior to the deer season opener Imagine your wife driving your children to practice in Nov. down some urban or country road in a bit of a hurry then with that many bucks chasing every doe that walks ..Do you really think that the IDNR cares if you get a few more inches of antler bercause the buck you just shot is 2.5 years old, or do they just want you to kill some deer. Instead of some hunter waiting all season for a shot at some buck that just does not exist in their hunting area and then they kill nothing . ?? I promis this is starting to wear thin on the DNR biologists and officals that want hunters pulling the trigger not pretending to be some new wave trophy manager/hunter. There is the reality of this deer herd and of our states hunters what will likely happen very soon if things do not change the corse that they are on .Like it or not INDIANA will soon enough demand the taking of more than just your precious two bucks that is END of Story in the very real and near future Get over it ! !!
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Post by greghopper on Aug 24, 2009 21:32:22 GMT -5
Why does the the State have to justify OBR to anyone....? They make decisions based on studies conducted by biologist.Indiana will never see a two buck harvest again..They will never undo what's been done. I wish the anti-OBR's would quit the crying all the time. Every dang post on here somehow always leads to OBR and frankly It's getting old..Face the facts that INDIANA will never let hunter harvest 2 bucks like we had in the past, and move on...You could always buy a non-resident tag for Illinois and take two there and one in Indiana..I mean what do you think is really going to happen here? Get over it! Indiana will never allow you to kill two bucks again....end of story. Begining of story !!! Big time!! The deer herd bucks and does is growing at what will sooner be an exponential rate. Hunters in Indiana is a very finite number that has over the last 7 years hovered around 215 -220 thousand .deer hunters with bow hunters comprising around 78,000 annually with gun hunters comprising the the rest . At the rate we are going the deer herd will reach 1,000,000 deer before the hunter numbers reach 250,000 . '( OMG.... Explain to the Great people here how you got those figures ...what science method was used to achieve those Numbers ..... Hell our own Bio. wont grasp at things like that.... Suite up OBR guys get rain jacket and umbrella's ready!!! Here comes the "SCARE TACTICS"
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2009 7:44:51 GMT -5
Begining of story !!! Big time!! The deer herd bucks and does is growing at what will sooner be an exponential rate. Hunters in Indiana is a very finite number that has over the last 7 years hovered around 215 -220 thousand .deer hunters with bow hunters comprising around 78,000 annually with gun hunters comprising the the rest . At the rate we are going the deer herd will reach 1,000,000 deer before the hunter numbers reach 250,000 . '( OMG.... Explain to the Great people here how you got those figures ...what science method was used to achieve those Numbers ..... Hell our own Bio. wont grasp at things like that.... Suite up OBR guys get rain jacket and umbrella's ready!!! Here comes the "SCARE TACTICS"Deer do like to breed, I'm sure you noticed that behavior before. Take Ky. for example here, being that Ky. compares really well with Indiana in number of hunters and deer harvest numbers. When Ky. went to one buck 15 years ago or so, they had 225,000 deer statewide. They NOW have about 1,000,000 give or take a few. That ia with UNLIMITED doe tags in about half the state over the last 7 or 8 years or so. There's your numbers, and they can be proved. The deer herd will expand unless it's kept in check. If it takes adding a second buck back into the mix to get it done, it will be done. The DNR has said repeatedly that they can loose the means to control the deer herd numbers. The next push to change may not come from antler s and lost shooters but from within the DNR itself.
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Post by racktracker on Aug 25, 2009 9:24:59 GMT -5
Becoming a "big buck state", no matter what the cause is or was, can end up a catch 22. IF we end up like Illinois more and more ground will be controlled by fewer and fewer hunters. Outfitters and NRs will rule the day. Just like Illinois, NRs will not be here to hunt a doe (especially at $150 a pop) and the herd will sky rocket.
Illinois now has a super big problem. Way too many deer and not enough hunters to control the herd that has grown huge. It is big antlers and dam the cost to the herd and resource. Look at the political Illinois Deer Control Committee that they have setup over there. Do we really want to go there?
The number one goal of the IDNR is to control the herd to satisfy all their stakeholders. That is not just pleasing hunters, but all of society. If the IDNR sees that this OBR is getting in the way of controlling the herd they will drop it like a hot potato.
Just IMHO.
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Post by jackc99 on Aug 25, 2009 9:47:12 GMT -5
Ah, the voice of reason rears it's ugly head!!!!!
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Post by trapperdave on Aug 25, 2009 10:21:03 GMT -5
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