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Post by mullis56 on Aug 17, 2006 9:28:18 GMT -5
mullis56, I just finished reading your post to another, which I found to be rather self-centered and cocky. Now we all know you bout 90 acres here recently, and that is all fine and well. What I particulary don't like, about your telling everyone, is you are to the point of braging about it. Let me see if I am correct: I read a few threads back, that you had to take out a second mortage on your home to buy this property. The was very unwise thing to do in my opinion. This means you are further in debt, and can loose your newly aquired property or home if something happens to your job, health, car breaks down, or some other factor. Now for the rest of you members here: I am getting sick and tired of comming here just to read arguments and insults, on an otherwise fine and imformative Hunting Forum. Seems like everytime I have something to share and post, there is someone who comes in and rips it apart. Woody you've done a fine job trying to run a Hunting Forum but there are some who are here to cause trouble, and not contribute to anything constructive. <Good Bye> This shouldn't be an insult place at all and I'm sorry that you found it that way....I'm proud I did buy my property and damn happy I could do it. I don't need YOU or ANYONE telling me what is my business and what isn't regarding getting a 2nd mortgage, etc. I'm prepared to live the SAME lifestyle that my family has now if I lost my job tomorrow, it is called savings, and we could live for 12 months with no issues! I own a couple of companies with a few other people plus I have a full time job. (I'm not bragging, just telling the truth!) I own a all of our vehicles we drive, no credit card debt and the only payments I have are my house and 2nd mortgage. I don't need to tell you how much money I make a year or where I spend it, but we all have decisions that affect what and where we invest our money. The bottom line is don't complain about the RISK I took, and the fact that I'm proud that I did it. It is a RISK, but a RISK I'm willing to take......and not everyone is willing to do that risk but the richest man I know starting buying and selling/cash renting crop ground when we was 31 years old and he is now 64 years old and has been retired from a day to day job since he was 50 simply because he took a risk and starting buy property! I now did the same....I'm ed at myself for not buying 120 acres in Iowa 6 years ago (the old guy I know tried to get me to go in with him on it and I was scared to do it at 22 years old) the property was $130,000. The guy I know purchased it and just sold it in April for $192,000! That is better then the stock market!!! I was stupid as I was scared to take the RISK, but the RISK paid off as it will always do that on land when you buy it at the right price! Read North American Whitetail? There was an article in a recent issue talking about buying or leasing your own hunting ground. It talked about 2 young guys in IL, that started 6 years ago and now own over 3000 acres and they are set for life at age 33 and 35. They took a risk and made some sacrfices and now look at them! This should open EVERYONE'S eyes. Think about what you spend in hunting supplies every year? Think about what you spend doing other things in your life every year that you could do away with? You have the money and the means if your willing to make sacrfices and take risks to own your own piece of property. If not I know you could afford to lease a piece to hunt by yourself and your group! IMO, of course. When you own it or lease it, it eliminates other people you may or may not know hunting the same woods with you, therefore it is safer! It allows you to do what you want, shoot only certain caliber of animals or everything you want if that is your cup of tea. Seeing your point, it is sad that the world of hunting has come to this, but my kids and me wouldn't have a place to hunt in 15 years from now unless I own it or we lease something so that also weighed on my decision. I don't want to hunt public ground unless I can help it, I don't want to always have the risk of a farmer yanking the rights away from me, etc. As mentioned earlier I'm not attacking anyone, just telling you the points and facts of life, eventually you won't be able to hunt for FREE on farmers property....so you should prepare yourself now, and complaining about isn't going to change anything!
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 17, 2006 10:06:18 GMT -5
Leasing (all forms) SUCK!!!!
But it blows me away how some folks will tell you that the landowner has the RIGHT to lease out their ground (and they do).......but look how mad those SAME folks get when the landowner puts a fence around their property, before they start to lease it..........lol lol lol lol
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Post by bsutravis on Aug 17, 2006 11:05:06 GMT -5
No problem putting a fence up around it Camby.....as long as that fence isn't 10' high and he trapped game that belongs to EVERYONE inside it for his own.
Leasing does suck......but it's perfectly ethical, legal, and is a good cash cow for the property owner who decides to make a larger return on their investment than it's currently providing.
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Post by dec on Aug 17, 2006 11:06:27 GMT -5
I can't believe these debates.
Private land is private land folks. If you own 10 acres, 100 acres, or 1000 acres, as the land owner you can do with it whatever you want so long as you follow the laws of our state. That means if you want to lease out your land to a particular hunter, group of hunters, or an outfitting business, then it is your RIGHT. Agree with it or not, these people have every right to do what they are doing.
Many argue that leasing of any sort is bad. Where to do you guys get off making such a claim?!?! Lets say my grandma owns 100 acres (she does not) and is tired of every Tom Dick and Harry knocking on her door to hunt it. She's tired of telling them "no", so she finds out about a respectable guy who is willing to give her a couple hundred dollars a year to hunt her ground and keep the riff raff out. What is wrong with that? What is wrong with a guy who owns a bunch of ground for investment purposes and leases it out for farming and then leases it out for hunting? It is his ground and his income. If he leases it to XYZ Outfitter and they agree that two dozen guys are going to come in over the course of 3 months to hunt it, then so be it. It is their right so long as they agree to it up front and follow the laws of our state.
My brother-in-law is one of the largest farmers in N.E. Indiana. He farms a ton of ground and has had it with all the people wanting to hunt. For years, his phone never quit ringing from people asking. So he leased all his ground except for a couple farms that I hunt to one single guy. That guy sub-leases the ground to other hunters and manages the properties (not for QDM, but for hunter density control). The hunters get what they want in ground, the leasing agent gets paid for what he enjoys, my brother-in-law gets some extra money, and his phone doesn't ring so much anymore. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
It is business folks. Like it or not hunting is a business.
Get off the high horses and quit ripping on folks who have every right to do what they want with their own ground.
For the record, I have no affiliation with the QDM group or any outfitter. I'm also not claiming that I am a big fan of leasing. I just get sick of the b.s. that gets spewed by all the "experts" on here on such topics.
I'll probably get "edited" on this one as well for speaking the truth.
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Post by hoyt1166 on Aug 17, 2006 11:49:16 GMT -5
I don't like leasing because to me it represents another progression from what hunting used to be back in the day. However, in a lot of cases, it's the hunter that brought leasing on (I should say the slob, trespassing hunters versus the ethical hunters). However, as it's been said many times before, it is their private land and no one can tell them what they can or cannot do with it unless, of course, the state should decide eminent domain exists and they take it away. Sadly, that's another bad topic as well.
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Post by chicobrownbear on Aug 17, 2006 12:22:19 GMT -5
This discussion is getting personal and turning into a whizing match, lets clean it up guys. h.h. Ditto.
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Post by mullis56 on Aug 17, 2006 13:24:05 GMT -5
Okay I'm done saying my points...... This has gone too far
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Post by bsutravis on Aug 17, 2006 13:41:39 GMT -5
Now....who wants to buy a raffle ticket??? LMAO
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Post by shinglemonkey on Aug 17, 2006 13:53:46 GMT -5
Too many people have been getting something for nothing all these years...landowners are getting some return on their investments.
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Post by jstalljon on Aug 17, 2006 14:19:32 GMT -5
Too many people have been getting something for nothing all these years...landowners are getting some return on their investments. Too true...that is why the farmers land I hunt gets free venison completely processed including summer sausage and jerky, a free ear to bend whenever he want to chat, free labor when it comes to mending fences, bailing hay, etc.. I'm not sure how long he'll have this farm, or how long I'll be able to hunt it, but I sure do appreciate him letting me hunt there, so I try to do as much as I can for him in return.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2006 16:11:24 GMT -5
I'm curious, being that I'm pro-leasing and know the benefits that many hunters reap from it, AND I'm also a member of the QDMA-- are I not welcome on this site???
One point that has been thrown out there erronously is that leases steal deer from other hunters. Not so, hunting rights leases only sell a chance to hunt, nothing more or nothing less. No difference than one partuicular person having access on several hundreds of acres and not allowing others to come in and shoot the States deer.
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Post by hunter480 on Aug 17, 2006 16:45:22 GMT -5
Nobody's out of line 480...I can voice my opinion just the same as you. The original post on this issue was to generate some discussion. My opinion is that while most of us wish that leasing never exisited, I would never support state or federal govt "outlawing" the practice of leasing your land for hunting rights. If you own 1000 acres and want to charge a fee to allow hunters on it, than that is your right as a property owner. How is this any different than a farmer taking a field, digging some pit blinds....and charging goose hunters to come in and hunt??? OR opening your property up to dog runners to chase racoons and rabbits for a fee? OR using an outfitter / guide service to set you up on a bear or elk hunt? All you`ve said here is true-but you can`t tell someone if they don`t like it to get out of the state.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 17, 2006 17:23:48 GMT -5
I'm curious, being that I'm pro-leasing and know the benefits that many hunters reap from it, AND I'm also a member of the QDMA-- are I not welcome on this site . You already know the answer to that.. .
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Post by huxbux on Aug 17, 2006 17:56:52 GMT -5
, However, as it's been said many times before, it is their private land and no one can tell them what they can or cannot do with it unless, of course, the state should decide eminent domain exists and they take it away. Sadly, that's another bad topic as well. I've been waiting for someone to bring up that possibility.
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 17, 2006 20:17:07 GMT -5
I'm curious, being that I'm pro-leasing and know the benefits that many hunters reap from it, AND I'm also a member of the QDMA-- are I not welcome on this site . You already know the answer to that.. . Isn't EVERYONE (who follows the rules)....welcome here!?
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Post by steiny on Aug 17, 2006 20:44:31 GMT -5
Obviously, there is one heck of a demand, because the leasing thing really seems to be taking off. I'd like to lock up a couple hundred more prime acres exclusively for myself too. Anything wrong with that?
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Post by hunter480 on Aug 17, 2006 21:29:11 GMT -5
Obviously, there is one heck of a demand, because the leasing thing really seems to be taking off. I'd like to lock up a couple hundred more prime acres exclusively for myself too. Anything wrong with that? Nothing in the world wrong with that-the jist of the objections are simply the fear of what`s happened in, say Illinois, where outfitters have gobbled up prime hunting land to sell hunts to dudes with mega money at the expense of the average working guy. Even though some would liken the leasing of huntable ground to leasing mineral rights, or timber rights, most see that it`s a much more complex issue than that very simple analogy. We are talking about the changing of deer hunting as we know it, and real, or perceived, it`s an issue with most hunters. Probably, many of the arguments against leasing aren`t the most logical and well thought out points, but I believe they all stem from the realization that our hunting heritage is rapidly changing from the knock on the door, get permission to hunt, in which anyone could participate, to a climate where mainly the guys with the money have the access while the regular working guy gets left in the cold. Many of us working guys have felt left out in many circumstances, but when it impacts hunting, and especially deer hunting, it elicits an extremely strong response, because hunting is what we LIVE for. My thought would be that instead of belittling those of us who fear losing hunting as we know it today, we might have constructive debate on where we go from here. How we attempt to keep hunting available to those of us lowly guys who sweat for a living.
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Post by bsutravis on Aug 17, 2006 23:30:39 GMT -5
480... You mis-interpreted my line when I said, "if that's not good 'nuf, than try another state." My implication was that if you didn't find enough hunting ground that is free/public....than try another state, not that you had to pack up and get the heck out of Dodge...unless ya wanted too.
I appreciate your argument that leasing is changing the face of hunting and you seem to want to protect that heritage from any changes that aren't up your alley. Hasn't hunting been ever evolving since man first fired black powder instead of using a long bow/spear/knife to kill? Were you objecting to the use of a pump action shotgun versus a single shot? What about a compound bow versus recurve? Were you objecting when the state first purchase it's first piece of public land to make hunting available to everyone, because THAT too was a change from how things once were. MY point is, leasing (like it or not) is legal and totally ethical for both the property owner and person that pays for the rights.... If I were totally convinced that the sky is falling and our "hunting heritage" is in ruins I'd be attending meeting after meeting demanding more and more property be acquired for public use OR buy your own property so YOU will always have a place to call your own.
Nobody is belittling....some folks just don't like it when their point of view isn't catching on like they wish.......so I say, keep digging, and try to put up an argument that MIGHT change someone's mind about this topic. It's a discussion that we are engaged in, and thank God that we can disagree freely.
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Post by dec on Aug 18, 2006 6:53:00 GMT -5
You already know the answer to that.. . Isn't EVERYONE (who follows the rules)....welcome here!? Ah ... you are seeing the light.
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Post by RoadKill on Aug 18, 2006 8:13:59 GMT -5
Probably, many of the arguments against leasing aren`t the most logical and well thought out points, but I believe they all stem from the realization that our hunting heritage is rapidly changing ... I believe you have struck at the heart of the matter. Is isn't about hunting at all; its about changing demographics. As a nation we've shifted from the country to the city, and we've shifted from local to national. We used to know our nieghbors and their kinfolk through multiple generations. Most people used to "make something" or "grow something". Now, most people "do something" and a lot of us don't know our own kinfolk through multiple generations. What's all this mean? That the relationship between hunter and landowner has changed. At one time, the relationship was geographic (neighbor) and/or personal (friend or kin). We all want to do better for ourselves and our families. Hunting may be important to us, but not as important as family. We move around the nation and world to get the best home, job, school and etc.. Its not about right or wrong, good or bad; its about change. Leasing is happening and will increase. Outfitting and guiding is happening and will increase. A friend of mine was part of a duck lease in Arkansas. Their group was pretty active and had made several improvements to the lease. Someone came along, liked what he saw and offered the landowner 10 time$ what my friend's group had been paying. Its all about money....
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