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Post by mbogo on Dec 12, 2006 10:49:21 GMT -5
Whats the latest on this. I local Conservation officer said it was a done deal. Is that correct? It is not a done deal yet, but the proposal has a lot of support and will likely be a done deal sometime in the near future. Public meetings concerning this topic will likely be scheduled sometime early next year.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Dec 12, 2006 11:09:44 GMT -5
Whats the latest on this. I local Conservation officer said it was a done deal. Is that correct? It is not a done deal yet, but the proposal has a lot of support and will likely be a done deal sometime in the near future. Public meetings concerning this topic will likely be scheduled sometime early next year. I'm just enough of a pessimist to know that hedging your bets is a good thing - especially with the change in leadership. That's why I'm working up a reasonable brass-cased .410 slug load...
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Post by ridgerunner on Dec 12, 2006 22:27:44 GMT -5
I'm gonna save alot of my comments due to all the negative responses I got from the OBR deal.I sent my e-mail.. whats wrong with a shotgun or handgun, that we now feel it necessary to include rifles??? Better buy me a flack jacket for next season if this passes.. I'm surprised some of the anti-obr crowd now support a firearms law that allows rifles cartridges, kinda gives those guys who we're transferring the harvest to more ammo to take more deer you guys are passing up??
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Post by hornharvester on Dec 13, 2006 0:39:38 GMT -5
I'm surprised some of the anti-obr crowd now support a firearms law that allows rifles cartridges, kinda gives those guys who we're transferring the harvest to more ammo to take more deer you guys are passing up?? the proposal is legal pistol caliber cartridges in a rifle. h.h.
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Post by mbogo on Dec 13, 2006 7:22:43 GMT -5
Ridgerunner, you do understand that pistol caliber rifles do not exceed shotguns or muzzleloaders in range or performance don't you?
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Post by Decatur on Dec 13, 2006 7:23:46 GMT -5
Done-Please allow it!
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Post by RoadKill on Dec 13, 2006 8:21:51 GMT -5
Ridgerunner, you do understand that pistol caliber rifles do not exceed shotguns or muzzleloaders in range or performance don't you? That depends on the technical aspects of the regulation. The previews I've seen talk about .357 caliber and 1.6" max case length. That leaves a whole lot of room for interpretation.
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Post by chicobrownbear on Dec 13, 2006 9:57:50 GMT -5
Not a whole lot of room for interpretation. The reg is quite clear. No shorter than 1.16 inches, no longer than 1.625 inches. And the projectile must be .357 caliber or greater. Those are pretty clear to me.
.38 spl up to .500 S&W and anything in between size wise.
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Post by mbogo on Dec 13, 2006 10:28:24 GMT -5
Not a whole lot of room for interpretation. The reg is quite clear. No shorter than 1.16 inches, no longer than 1.625 inches. And the projectile must be .357 caliber or greater. Those are pretty clear to me. .38 spl up to .500 S&W and anything in between size wise. You forgot to mention the stipulation about being pistol cartridges which would eliminate the .30-30, .45-70, etc., etc. However, modern saboted shotgun and muzzleloader loads are also capable of competing with most common lever action rounds in performance and range. Unless a person chooses a .454, .500 S&W, or loads a .44 mag very hot, they are going to come up a little short in matching 12 gauge shotgun and smokeless muzzleloader performance.
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Post by mbogo on Dec 13, 2006 10:43:03 GMT -5
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Post by ridgerunner on Dec 13, 2006 11:43:39 GMT -5
Yeah I understand..I also understand that a longer barrel length means longer range than a pistol. We'll have guys thinking they can take 500 yard shots at running deer everywhere. It's bad enough with shotguns. I thought the theory behind allowing pistols was for the challenge of taking a deer with a handgun...??now thats not good enough...we wanna use our pistol cartridges in rifles.. If there is no difference in ballistics then why do we want to change the law to allow rifles? What's the advantage....Where does it end?? No one is ever satisfied...
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Post by Old Ironsights on Dec 13, 2006 13:00:34 GMT -5
Because there IS a difference in accuracy. The longer sight plane and more stable firing position makes it more accurateover the same ranges.
More accuracy, less recoil, less expense, more practice, cleaner kills. Are these bad things?
And I will never be satisfied with an illogical law.
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Post by paul3 on Dec 13, 2006 13:01:52 GMT -5
One advantage would be for kids. They could use something with less kick, more knockdown power then a 410.
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Post by RoadKill on Dec 13, 2006 13:17:54 GMT -5
chico... I hadn't seen anything that said "pistol cartridges" or even "straight walled" cartridges; just 1.6" max case length and .357 caliber. I believe a Winchester Super Short Mag case trimmed ever so slightly (.060") and expanded to .357 would fit the max case length and caliber requirements. That should match .358 Winchester performance.
If there is a requirement to be an "off the shelf" handgun cartridge; then a .445 SuperMag or .454 should yield 1900-2000 fps with a 300-350 grain bullet (might require special throating of the barrel and/or slower than normal powders).
mbogo, Of course you're right; if the requirement is "pure stock" then a 500 S&W will give 1600 fps with a 1 oz (440 grain) bullet in a 10" barrel. I'd expect a 16-24" barrel to give a little extra.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Dec 13, 2006 15:39:18 GMT -5
chico... I hadn't seen anything that said "pistol cartridges" or even "straight walled" cartridges; just 1.6" max case length and .357 caliber. I believe a Winchester Super Short Mag case trimmed ever so slightly (.060") and expanded to .357 would fit the max case length and caliber requirements. That should match .358 Winchester performance. Again, the problem is not so much in the powder or case as it is in the bullet BC. Spitzers = Flat shooting/long range. "Traditional Tube-fed-cartridges", by definition and except for the new LeverRevoultion ammo, are blunt-nosed with lousy BCs. The easy fix is... NO SPITZERS. However, I seriously doubt that Winchester is going to shorten their case dimensions to meet Indiana Requirements. The law is based on Factory Dimensions and ballistics, not what a Wildcat can turn out.
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Post by snakeeye on Dec 13, 2006 17:35:35 GMT -5
Think kids, the future of our sport (and country for that matter), a DNR high priority item for this year.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Dec 13, 2006 20:49:35 GMT -5
Think kids, the future of our sport (and country for that matter), a DNR high priority item for this year. Yep. Yep. Yep. A 12y/o may learn to shoot a 28 ga, but will likely not enjoy shooting it. I want kids to enjoy shooting as much as hunting. A little .357 Carbine loaded with .38s is a heck of a lot of fun for 'lil critters as well as the CAS crowd. You won't keep hunting alive across the generaions if you don't keep shooting alive. Without practice, they just become part of the much maligned "Orange Army" of "Wekend Warriors" (and as both an Active & NG Army Vet, I realy find those terms offensive...) who only shoot a couple of boxes of slugs out of their deer guns every YEAR. Another point on Wildcatting - AFAIC, if a wildcatter makes a custom cartridge that meets "measurement" requirements - good for him. Wildcatters are a different breed, and I would have no trouble with a wildcatter using some bit of exotica... because wildcatters are beyond anal in their quest for accuracy and would no more blast away at random than crap all over their tree stand. Rules are made to keep the lowest-common-denominator from causing trouble. Factory pistol-cartridge loadings will never exceed the ballistic specs of a Shotgun or ML spitzer-sabot.
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