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Post by jdmiller on Aug 13, 2005 23:39:30 GMT -5
Guys,
I'm not trying to provoke a debate with this but I have a few questions . After reading these threads for awhile...why are a lot of people strongly against OBR and what are the regulations behind it ?
In Kentucky as a lot of other states our limit is one buck . It hasnt always been that way here ...... when I started bowhunting in the late 70's we had the option of purchasing another buck tag after you had harvested the first . Back then it was pretty hard to do ....if you even seen a deer or much less one with horns you were doing good . Sometime in the 80's was when we went to one buck regardless of weapon rule . I may have missed something back then but I didnt here much debate about it . All in all its seemed to work well . I pass on alot of bucks that would be shooters for some in other states .
We also have implimented a 15" spread limit on several state owned wildlife management areas . Some say its working others say it dont . Personally I like it . On our place we implimented / imposed a 8pt or better rule with exceptions to my daughter(13) and niece(12) . I'm the only bowhunter with two of my in-laws only muzzleloader and rifle hunting . I guess I'm spoiled to having the place to myself most of the time but it allows me to see a lot of bucks . We have taken several 130" deer over the past 15 years . It just boils down you have to let the smaller bucks grow up .
Kentucky has several other things implimented that seem controversal to Indiana hunters . The state uses a zone assignment for antlerless harvest and length of season . Our place is zone 1 and basically has unlimited doe harvest if you want to keep buying tags . A deer tag is good regardless of weapon ( No archery , muzzleloader , modern firearm license) . Baiting is legal but seems to be drawing a lot of attention . Our archery runs Sept 3 - Jan. 16 . We have early 2-day muzzleloader and a early 2-day modern firearm youth in October . Then we have a longer version of muzzleloader and additional youth days in December . All accompanied with a modern firearms season in November that keeps getting extended every so often .
By no means do I think Kentucky is perfect in their game management ( bad example=crossbow expansion approval then postponement) and I've hunted other states that are similar to Indiana .... I know its just a different approach . Again I'm just curious not trying to start a peeing match .
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Post by multidigits on Aug 14, 2005 0:05:09 GMT -5
One other good thing we have in Ky. is no Joe Bacon, except for visits. That's a good thing! HUNTERS HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS WITHOUT EATING THEIR OWN.
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 14, 2005 11:34:25 GMT -5
JD, I will give you my take. Indiana didn't have a "two buck any way you like" limit, prior to OBR....what we had was a one buck limit with archery gear, then a one buck limit with a firearm. If you got a buck with your bow...you were allowed to hunt a buck with a firearm.....if you were strictly a firearm hunter....you were limited to one buck....if you were stricrly a archery hunter you were limited to one buck. VERY VERY few folks were harvesting a buck deer with both their bows and guns....it just wasnt happening! In Indiana, we "pay per deer"......period!..... and all deer tags are the same price. So no one could carry over their "archery buck tag" and use it during the firearm season, with a firearm.....If they were not successfull on a buck in the archery season, they STILL had to purchase a firearm buck tag. Also antlerless tags are the same price as buck tags and you must have a seperate tag for each antlerless deer harvested. There is lots of opinions on how the OBR has affected the overall health of deer hunting in this state. One opinion is, if a fella hooks up with a buck in the early season....will he really go out and buy a $24.00 doe tag to hunt a doe in the firearm season?  ....We are talking **average** hunters here....not the folks who eat, sleep and breath deer hunting. It is VERY important to our wildlife for hunters to spend as many days afeild as possible......they spend more money, buy more products and generate more pittman-robertson funds by doing so. Indiana currently has a very restrictive deer season. We don't allow all that many options, during the early part of the deer season we are restricted to "regular bows"....no early M/L opportunities, no early youth firearms...and no crossbows. In my opinion, the OBR in Indiana is a GREAT idea....***ONLY*** if we are going to add additional options and choices at times we currently don't allow them. Under our "regular" system of one buck with archery (Regular Bows) and one buck with a firearm (M/L, Shotguns & Hand Guns)....the buck population didnt really need protected....it was the incentive to get folks out there more often. Our OBR is actualy a "TRIAL"....we are scheduled to go back to the "regular" buck bag in 2007. It's also my opinion that if we end up with a permenant OBR.....that it WON"T be the only change we see that year!!!!!!! |
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Post by multidigits on Aug 14, 2005 11:53:24 GMT -5
The paying per deer is a separate issue. It has nothing to do with the buck limit. As we've seen in many, many states--people will gladly pay $24 for a buck tag. We have buck tags in Ky. selling at charity auctions going for $6-7,000 each. So, the money is not a problem with bucks, maybe does, but not with bucks.
Camby is a bit incorrect about KY and when the evolved to the OBL. The first change ooccurred about 1990 when gunhunters elected (by survey) to put a one buck limit on themselves. The archers could still kill one and one or two with archery. That changed two years after the first change, again by survey. I don't hear anyone wanting to change back, and I'm out there where it would be heard if it was there.
Indiana needs to make some changes, for sure. But dropping the OBR isn't one of them.
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Post by jbwhttail on Aug 14, 2005 11:58:10 GMT -5
More personal attacks Multi..........
GROW UP!
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 14, 2005 12:02:57 GMT -5
Multi......
I thought you folks got antlerless tags included with you buck tag purchase. So if a fella hooked up with a buck in the early season, he still had tags (antlerless) in his pocket that he could fill.....Am I wrong?
You said:
"Indiana needs to make some changes, for sure. But dropping the OBR isn't one of them."
I say:
If Indiana DON"T make some changes....we need to get rid of the OBR....
I do however perfer KEEPING the OBR and adding MORE opportunity!!!!!!!
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Post by jdmiller on Aug 14, 2005 13:47:39 GMT -5
Multi : Your probably correct on the dates Kentucky changed . I was thinking 88 or 89 but I do remember with archery you could still kill two for a couple of years. I was working as much overtime I could get back then and a few years went by without me getting to hunt much . Seems like we got the early muzzleloader shortly after .
Camby or anyone : How long has OBR been in effect ?
Our deer permits do include antlerless .
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Post by multidigits on Aug 14, 2005 13:54:29 GMT -5
More personal attacks Multi.......... GROW UP! Camby, the facts are that people get used to the one buck and hold out for better bucks than they normally would kill. They extend their season by doing just that. Does are killed for different reasons and at different times. Only a few guys kill more than two or three deer total. Most people hunt for good bucks and then will kill out during gun season or right before during the pre-rut period. After that, it's time for most to hunt other things. those not getting lucky can hunt with a ML during the second rut. Lots of choices for all. No sense not to have when the resource can handle it. We don't have a major deer hunters assoc. fighting against oppurtunity, so maybe that helps. |
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 14, 2005 15:58:30 GMT -5
""Lots of choices for all. No sense not to have when the resource can handle it. We don't have a major deer hunters assoc. fighting against oppurtunity, so maybe that helps.""
Ya Think ?!?!?!?!
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Post by jbwhttail on Aug 14, 2005 21:06:33 GMT -5
More cheap shots just cloaked:
I'll no longer share my conversations with IDNR personel, you try to keep up. There is as always been a very strong association between IDNR and the IDHA. When the press conference was called by IDNR last week where were you guys(Multi and Camby). The IDHA had a presence 2 board members as well as members from the Sportsmens Roundtable, Indiana wildlife Federation, Pheasants forever and the Indiana Bowhunters Association.
Funny how the IBA and IDHA both are quoted in Newspaper articles, Check out the Fort Wayne article, the IDHA was quoted twice, was anyone else?
Kevin remember:
Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.
Multi:
Sorry you can't debate without attacks and be civil, aint any different than you in the Ky forums though....
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Post by multidigits on Aug 14, 2005 22:21:15 GMT -5
Quote- ******* "Sorry you can't debate without attacks and be civil, aint any different than you in the Ky forums though...." Your a fine one to talk. How many sportsmen have you called ***** or pimp or launched personal campaign against on these forums? Plenty is the answer. Your "little" club is not fooling anyone any longer. Word is out about your membership numbers, pal. Your days as the voice are in the past. Because of this forum, everyone will have an equal shot from now on. I will say this, clubs such as the IDHA are a good thing, to bad it fell in the hands of someone like you to ruin it. Imagine what it could be without you and your cronies? |
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Post by gundude on Aug 14, 2005 22:36:18 GMT -5
Quote- Jerkwad "Sorry you can't debate without attacks and be civil, aint any different than you in the Ky forums though...." Your a fine one to talk. How many sportsmen have you called ***** or pimp or launched personal campaign against on these forums? Plenty is the answer. Your "little" club is not fooling anyone any longer. Word is out about your membership numbers, pal. Your days as the voice are in the past. Because of this forum, everyone will have an equal shot from now on. I will say this, clubs such as the IDHA are a good thing, to bad it fell in the hands of someone like you to ruin it. Imagine what it could be without you and your cronies? DUDE, I own a farm in KY . Got some horses there and I have watched the the south end of them as they were walkin North and after reading your posts that very vision came back in my mind.... Whatever your issue is, you do more harm to your credability simply by opening your mouth.... You sound like a bitter child that didn't get his way...... Grow up man and get on with life. Stop livin in the past. |
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Post by jbwhttail on Aug 14, 2005 23:00:05 GMT -5
Woody??
Have I registered under the screen name...... Jerkwad?
How long do I need to take the personal attacks on this site?
I will respond to Multi that I offered the IDNR a list of members at the public meeting on deer farming. GunDude was there.....
Multi the list is VERY accurate and real.......... Your comments do not say much for your integrity or credibility.
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Post by Indyhunter on Aug 14, 2005 23:05:40 GMT -5
Guys, I'm not trying to provoke a debate with this but I have a few questions . jd, if you mention the OBR, or crossbows around here it ALWAYS turns into a debate. You might get one or two posts that attempt to answer your question, then one of the handful of guys that love to argue like 3rd grade girls here will start beating the same ole rotten, decomposed, gange green, maggot infested, overly tenderized horse. As soon as one of them posts, the rest of them join in. Then they will focus more on name calling and petty senseless arguments than they will the original question, totally destroying the thread. None of them are man enough to let it rest even though they've argued this same ole crap 30 or 40 times in the last couple years. Personally, I think they are all in love with each other as much as they argue using the EXACT same ideas and words. So, more than likely you should pick another thread to read because yours will probably be destroyed by the 3rd graders. |
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Post by jdmiller on Aug 14, 2005 23:30:16 GMT -5
Ill try this again....
My honest intent on posting this was to get a little insight on Indiana's OBR regulation . I've never hunted there.... could care less about whose idea it was or who kissed whose butt to get it passed . I knew it was a controversal topic when I asked...thats why I put it here.
All I wanted to know was how long its been in place ? How is it different than Kentucky's one buck rule? If its viewed as not working .... why?
I have read a lot of negetive remarks about it ... it would be understandable for a non-resident to ask . Kentuckys one buck limit is working and as Multi stated I have not heard one complaint . Sure it would be nice to have the option of killing one buck with archery equipment and still be able to kill another buck with a muzzleloader or centerfire rifle but we cant and its something we asked for .
JB : take note I didnt mention anything about crossbows. If you can give me a decent answer lets hear it .
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Post by multidigits on Aug 15, 2005 0:22:08 GMT -5
Woody?? Have I registered under the screen name...... Jerkwad? How long do I need to take the personal attacks on this site? I will respond to Multi that I offered the IDNR a list of members at the public meeting on deer farming. GunDude was there..... Multi the list is VERY accurate and real.......... Your comments do not say much for your integrity or credibility. Who cares??? I know your list is a crock, so does the DNR. Parties over now, go find someone else to call a wildlife w****. |
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Post by multidigits on Aug 15, 2005 0:26:34 GMT -5
JD-- nothing wrong with the OBR itself. Some folks didn't want then, nor now. There's some question as to how it got presented when it was on the agenda. The same guy that is tooting the horn now against crossbows was behind the false information used to get it in. People have wised up now, it'll will be likely a different story next time.
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Post by mbogo on Aug 15, 2005 7:16:24 GMT -5
Ill try this again.... My honest intent on posting this was to get a little insight on Indiana's OBR regulation . I've never hunted there.... could care less about whose idea it was or who kissed whose butt to get it passed . I knew it was a controversal topic when I asked...thats why I put it here. All I wanted to know was how long its been in place ? How is it different than Kentucky's one buck rule? If its viewed as not working .... why? I have read a lot of negetive remarks about it ... it would be understandable for a non-resident to ask . Kentuckys one buck limit is working and as Multi stated I have not heard one complaint . Sure it would be nice to have the option of killing one buck with archery equipment and still be able to kill another buck with a muzzleloader or centerfire rifle but we cant and its something we asked for . JB : take note I didnt mention anything about crossbows. If you can give me a decent answer lets hear it . The obr started in 2002. I've not yet hunted in Kentucky so I can't compare Indiana's hunting to hunting in your state. However, I will do my best to describe things here. The majority of bucks killed in Indiana always have been and probably always will be killed in firearms season by gun only hunters. The limit always has been one buck for firearms hunters. Nothing has changed in that regard with the obr. Many of these hunters hunt a couple of weekends and maybe a vacation day or two at the most. With limited hunting time and no incentive for these hunters to wait, they shoot the first thing that comes along. The multiple season hunter is the one who has some incentive to pass deer if he/she wishes to prolong their season. However, very few of these hunters ever killed more than one buck in a season and many were already becoming more selective on their own before the obr. From personal observation, we have always had many large mature bucks in Indiana that were not being killed. I am not seeing any more or less being killed now than prior to the obr. |
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 15, 2005 7:29:26 GMT -5
BUT........If the long range plan is to introduce more and more opportunity and choices....and convert some of those one or two weekend deer hunters into more dedicated hunters by allowing them those additional opportunities and choices....then the OBR is the way to go!!!!!!
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Post by jdmiller on Aug 15, 2005 9:23:21 GMT -5
I guess when our season went to a one buck limit they did start increasing oppertunity thereafter . I can see your point and that still goes on here as far as some shooting the first buck that comes by during gun season and I kinda understand this if your hunting with only one method . It is a learning curve involved and it would benefit everyone especially those just interested in filling a freezer to take more does if allowed .
With only three years of existance it may also take more time . Seems to me that on our place it didnt factor in very quick . It also takes adjoining land owners to promote being more selective . We had farms that were leased on all sides of us and they killed whatever they wanted . Just every once in awhile would one out of their group kill something decent . Somewhere along the way they started realizing the needed to be selective and things began to work. I would also like to point out we dont regularly see 180" deer either . We just have a larger group of 31/2 year old or better. The best taken was a buck that scored 194 5/8 with a muzzleloader in our late season in December several years ago . This wont happen often but its nice to know everthing is in place to have that kind of oppertunity .
Seems like there are changes that need to be made to Indianas season . If you did have more oppertunity with different weapons it would be a good start and leave the OBR in place .
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....We are talking **average** hunters here....not the folks who eat, sleep and breath deer hunting.
